using mega watt tube amps for guitar (SVT, Bassman 300, Classic 400, etc)

[Instant Dan]

As others mentioned, just get a cab loaded with Eminence Wizards. Those speakers that are loud as fuck and sound good when cranked in front of a 50-100 watt tube amp.

When I auditioned here a few weeks back with my 50 watt jcm 800, I easily kept up with the guy's dual rectumfrier.

[Mr. Foxen]

Somebody explain the formula for speaker efficiency vs. perceived loudness/amp wattage, I'm not smart enough to remember. But every extra dB of efficiency means your amp will sound louder. The difference between a cab with speakers rated at 96dB and one with speakers rated at 101 dB should be night and day.

Every 3db more sensitivity is equivalent to doubling power. But perceived loudness is a whole other thing, where tons of factors are important, but the massive generalisation is midband is most important as that's where your ears work best.

[clockwork green]

Just get the bass amp, it seems like you're stuck on the idea and who knows, maybe you can pull it off and create something unique with it.  The guy in The Body seems to do pretty well with it.  If you're looking for classic tones we all know and are familiar with then it probably won't work but if you've got a different sound in your head then it often takes different tools. 

[peyotepeddler]

Been using a SVT for geetar since '97, works fine for me, I don't think I ever came across the book for proper amplification

[spookstrickland]

I've found Bass amps to work very well for guitar, especially if you get most of your "Sound" from pedals and only use the EQ on the amp sparingly.  If you tune down really low a bass amp and cab will serve you well.

[VOLVO)))]

Just get the bass amp, it seems like you're stuck on the idea and who knows, maybe you can pull it off and create something unique with it.  The guy in The Body seems to do pretty well with it.  If you're looking for classic tones we all know and are familiar with then it probably won't work but if you've got a different sound in your head then it often takes different tools. 

He is a unique example. He used to use a Concert lead on a 9x10, and a multi-thousand watt power amp pushing two fridges. He has no high end, and he never ever plays single notes. I actually worked on his shit while he was here.

[moose23]

Get more speakers!

I'm sure that would help. I could pick up a couple random used 4x12s at Guitar Center for pretty cheap although I would think they'd have to be 8 ohm cabs like the 2 I have. Would four 8 ohm cabs make a 2 ohm load? I definitely don't want to haul 4 cabs to gigs though.

Or rather than build on what I have I could ditch what I've got and custom order two 4x12s with 150-200 watt speakers and then perhaps get an 800 to 1,000 watt SS power amp but that would still cost a ton of money.

Ditch your cabs and get two decent quality 4x12s with decent efficient speakers and you won't need to change your amp.

[peyotepeddler]

I however don't dig bass cabs with geetar, boogie's traditional cabs are stellar with it

[spookstrickland]

Get more speakers!

I'm sure that would help. I could pick up a couple random used 4x12s at Guitar Center for pretty cheap although I would think they'd have to be 8 ohm cabs like the 2 I have. Would four 8 ohm cabs make a 2 ohm load? I definitely don't want to haul 4 cabs to gigs though.

Or rather than build on what I have I could ditch what I've got and custom order two 4x12s with 150-200 watt speakers and then perhaps get an 800 to 1,000 watt SS power amp but that would still cost a ton of money.
[/quote]

Ditch your cabs and get two decent quality 4x12s with decent efficient speakers and you won't need to change your amp.
[/quote]

I however don't dig bass cabs with geetar, boogie's traditional cabs are stellar with it

Might not be for everyone but I'm a huge fan of 15" bass cabs for downtuned guitar.  Buzz seems to really like mixing 15's and 12's as well.

[heytrid]

at times I play guitar through my bass rig...

svt-av, 810av, svt-vr, svt-215e

mostly just because I can...

[liquidsmoke]

Been using a SVT for geetar since '97, works fine for me, I don't think I ever came across the book for proper amplification

'70s model or 'Classic'? I read that the Classic model has a preamp that is designed more for bass. One just went for about $800 on ebay.

I hear that the new '70s style reissue Asian made model is put together poorly plus they are very pricey.

I've found Bass amps to work very well for guitar, especially if you get most of your "Sound" from pedals and only use the EQ on the amp sparingly.  If you tune down really low a bass amp and cab will serve you well.

I've played guitar through bass combos and guitar amps through bass cabs but never guitar through a bass amp and guitar speakers. I am curious. I could just use a bass amp as a power amp with a guitar pre running into it.

[liquidsmoke]

Probably the economical way to do this is sell the current cab, and buy a different used cab with the speakers you want. Buying speakers ala carte seems like the expensive way to do it.

Maybe although it depends on the company. My 2x12 is a Stage Craft and they make good stuff and sell direct to customers so when you buy them loaded you're basically just buying the speakers from them instead of someone else and you don't actually save money. I think these prices are very nice-
http://www.stagecraftgear.com/servlet/the-Black-Jack-cln-Studio/Categories

Mine- http://www.stagecraftgear.com/servlet/the-13/Black-Jack-212SL-Diagonal/Detail

There ya go. Replace the speakers in the 4x12 with something loud like Swam Thangs or Wizards and you'll be quadrupling your perceived wattage.

It's a cheap particle board cab but because of that it's fairly light for it's size. It's basically worthless so I'll just keep it around. Would probably want a higher quality cab if I'm going to spend $300 or $400 on speakers but I'm not actually sure how much difference the wood makes.

As others mentioned, just get a cab loaded with Eminence Wizards. Those speakers that are loud as fuck and sound good when cranked in front of a 50-100 watt tube amp.

When I auditioned here a few weeks back with my 50 watt jcm 800, I easily kept up with the guy's dual rectumfrier.

According to the Eminence website The Wizard is rated at 75 watts and 103 DB, the Swamp Thang(have 2 in my 2x12) is 150 watts and 102 DB.

Ditch your cabs and get two decent quality 4x12s with decent efficient speakers and you won't need to change your amp.

Huge bucks but I agree that it would help. I went with the 2x12 I have because they are lighter than 4x12 and because they are cheaper(mostly because it's 2 vs 4 speakers) but now I regret it.

[liquidsmoke]

Regardless of the cab issue I would still like to either get a powerful solid state power amp or some sort of monster tube head if I can swing it.

[peyotepeddler]

Been using a SVT for geetar since '97, works fine for me, I don't think I ever came across the book for proper amplification

'70s model or 'Classic'? I read that the Classic model has a preamp that is designed more for bass. One just went for about $800 on ebay.

I hear that the new '70s style reissue Asian made model is put together poorly plus they are very pricey.

I've found Bass amps to work very well for guitar, especially if you get most of your "Sound" from pedals and only use the EQ on the amp sparingly.  If you tune down really low a bass amp and cab will serve you well.

I've played guitar through bass combos and guitar amps through bass cabs but never guitar through a bass amp and guitar speakers. I am curious. I could just use a bass amp as a power amp with a guitar pre running into it.

its a classic model, as in the classic reissued from around that time period, i have no experience with the vietnam made stuff


i went through many amps before i plugged in, it just had a vibe and tone i dug, the fan is a plus when the tubes start cooking.................a beautiful scent indeed:)

[moose23]

Regardless of the cab issue I would still like to either get a powerful solid state power amp or some sort of monster tube head if I can swing it.

All your problems are related to your cabs so buying a huge head isn't gonna solve any of them and you'll be back here telling us your huge head still isn't cutting it. Buy some decent cabs.

[liquidsmoke]

Regardless of the cab issue I would still like to either get a powerful solid state power amp or some sort of monster tube head if I can swing it.

All your problems are related to your cabs so buying a huge head isn't gonna solve any of them and you'll be back here telling us your huge head still isn't cutting it. Buy some decent cabs.

Do you have recommendations for dimensions or wood thickness? At the moment I'm of the opinion that my Stagecraft 2x12 with 102 DB Eminence Swamp Thangs is a decent cab aside from the fact that it isn't a 4x12. I'm assuming that 102 DB speakers should be loud enough although I could look for something in the 104 or 105 range if they exist so long as they aren't $200 each.

Are slant cabs less loud than straight cabs?

[Mr. Foxen]

Do you have recommendations for dimensions or wood thickness? At the moment I'm of the opinion that my Stagecraft 2x12 with 102 DB Eminence Swamp Thangs is a decent cab aside from the fact that it isn't a 4x12. I'm assuming that 102 DB speakers should be loud enough although I could look for something in the 104 or 105 range if they exist so long as they aren't $200 each.

Are slant cabs less loud than straight cabs?

Bigger the box, bassier the cab. Thickness isn't the thing, its rigidity, can achieve it with thickness, but also in other ways, like bracing, and pre tensioning. Slant cabs means you lose a bit of internal volume for the same footprint, but slightly upward facing speakers is better for being able to hear them.

[liquidsmoke]

Do you have recommendations for dimensions or wood thickness? At the moment I'm of the opinion that my Stagecraft 2x12 with 102 DB Eminence Swamp Thangs is a decent cab aside from the fact that it isn't a 4x12. I'm assuming that 102 DB speakers should be loud enough although I could look for something in the 104 or 105 range if they exist so long as they aren't $200 each.

Are slant cabs less loud than straight cabs?

Bigger the box, bassier the cab. Thickness isn't the thing, its rigidity, can achieve it with thickness, but also in other ways, like bracing, and pre tensioning. Slant cabs means you lose a bit of internal volume for the same footprint, but slightly upward facing speakers is better for being able to hear them.

Bassier and louder or just bassier? A slant on top of a straight is nice(I'm 6'). Right now I have 2 slants which are stack-able but it's not that stable unless they are both on their sides.

Avatar's prices for loaded cabs are sick and although they don't offer a slant I could make some sort stand to put between 2 to raise up the top one to face level. Their 'Contemporary' 4x12 is 115 pounds, yikes. Their 'traditional' is not so bad at about 90 but it's 12" deep instead of 14.

I dig this as cloth grills make me nervous-

[Mr. Foxen]

Bigger cab only adds sensitivity in the lower part. But can make it seem louder, because undersized cabs sound gutless.

[liquidsmoke]

Ok. I'm not buying 115 pound 4x12s but I'd put up with 90. If Avatar's 90 pound 12" deep cabs are undersized I'll look elsewhere.

[liquidsmoke]

from the tech thread:

Factors other than watts determine how loud and when it clips. If the cab is 125db when fed 10w, its going to be loud without clipping, and you just don't need to push the amp so hard. Also, you could clip a 500w rated cab with a 400w amp if the cabs excursion limit is 100w (which is often the case with 4x10s). It is the xmax of a speaker that determines when it will clip, which is unrelated to the thermal power handling. Thermal handling ratings on speaker are almost totally irrelevant but its the biggest number so it gets shouted about most.

Okay a so speakers db rating is more important than watts handling and bigger cabs are louder than small cabs and they should be well constructed preferably of real solid wood and not particle board. If there are any cab companies to stay away from please let me know. My current plan is to buy two 4x12 cabs with 102 or 103 db speakers and if I'm still not getting the volume I need I'll get a more powerful amp or take everything out to the street and burn it 

[spookstrickland]

from the tech thread:



or take everything out to the street and burn it 

I know exactly how you feel

[Barnhard]

Bass amps work great for guitar. You're probably better off with something on the Fender side though. Ampeg can get really thumpy on guitar.

[Chovie D]

funny thread 

alot of talk aboot volume, not much aboot tone 

[Lumpy]

Okay a so speakers db rating is more important than watts handling and bigger cabs are louder than small cabs and they should be well constructed preferably of real solid wood and not particle board. If there are any cab companies to stay away from please let me know. My current plan is to buy two 4x12 cabs with 102 or 103 db speakers and if I'm still not getting the volume I need I'll get a more powerful amp or take everything out to the street and burn it 

I think you still wanna look at the wattage rating. If you have 25 watt speakers and power it with a 100 watt head, those speakers will sound driven -- some people like that, you might not. If you have a jiggawatt head, you could blow those speakers.

Also, the sensitivity rating is a bit messy because different companies can use different methods to establish their stats. So if one company sells a speaker that's rated 1dB more efficient than another company's speaker, I would go with the speaker that seems to best match your tone search/less weight/less expensive. Because who knows if they are even on the same page.

It's a few different stats you're juggling, not a big deal.

I don't know if any guitar speakers go over 102 dB efficiency - maybe 103? If you are over 100 that's considered efficient.

IMO.

I would assume your next cab will be heavier, good speakers are usually heavy. (wheels ) You could try neodymium speakers, they are light and efficient but more expensive than ceramic or alnico. I've mentioned before the Lil' Texas speaker, it's light, loud and clean (but expensive). I found a used one for 70 bucks.