using mega watt tube amps for guitar (SVT, Bassman 300, Classic 400, etc)

[liquidsmoke]

I have a 100 watt 1968 fender showman. If I crank it all the way up, it does breakup into a really nice Stonesy Grind. Thats hard to acheive because oits so damn loud. I start to hear a little hair about midway up, but I dont really ever turn it past 3 and have the entire volume output reduced by the space echo.

If you want pretty much endless clean headroom I think you should look into the ultralinear fenders like the bassman 135.
Honestly tho, the tiny bit of harmonic distortion you get from a regular fender 50 or 100 watt is gloriously beautiful, I cannot understand why any guitar player would not want that option.

why would you want to fuck around with a 40 year old tube amp? because they sound fantastic and they are built to last . They are still here 40 years later, while your 3 year old crate heads to the landfill, all that chinese pcb shit will be in the landfill while these amps go on for 100 years more.

How much do the Bassman 135 heads go for?

I didn't get that Crate.

I don't need extra distortion of any kind with my distortion pedal as it's kind of like a modeling unit aside from that I do like to run it through a preamp so I can tweak the tone a little bit. I could probably get a great sound with it using PA equipment.

[Jake]

What is this pedal from which you generate all of your tone from?

[liquidsmoke]

[Chovie D]

Bassman 135 is usually under $500. They weigh a ton.



Theres also the fender PA135 which is a four channel PA head. THose are the same deal under $500,
135 watts from an unltralinear output section..but none of the four channels are voiced for guitar. Some people mod each channel , one channel becomes a bassman, another a twin, and so on.

Keep in mind, Im an old fart and dont understand you kids and your modern nu-metal sounds 

[Lumpy]

If you want pretty much endless clean headroom I think you should look into the ultralinear fenders like the bassman 135.

A Fender Twin Reverb (a 2x12 combo) would be insanely loud, and it stays clean basically all the way up. They're about 700 bucks used. You cannot stay in the same room as this amp, when it's cranked. It's painful.

Now that I think of it, a Roland JC120 is also insanely loud and clean. About 500 bucks used. Probably not as loud as the Fender though.

If those amps aren't loud enough, I wonder if anybody can hear your drummer. That's how you should be setting your volume (to match up with your drummer). In which case the other guys in your band need to turn down.

[clockwork green]

All of this talk has me thinking how can I come up with $1500 for a Verellen Meatsmoke while they're on sale. I figure if it doesn't work for guitar, then I'd still have a sweet bass amp.

[xayk]

A Fender Twin Reverb (a 2x12 combo) would be insanely loud, and it stays clean basically all the way up. They're about 700 bucks used. You cannot stay in the same room as this amp, when it's cranked. It's painful.

I'm a big Twin fan.  If you're patient you can score one cheap - my ultralinear Twin was $350, but it's speakers are bad enough that it's not nearly as loud as my non-UL.  Projects...

Rivera appears to still have new old stock TBR-5's: http://rivera.shptron.com/p/tbr-5-hammer-320-new-old-stock?pp=8&pp=8
320 watts mono, 160 stereo, various lower power options. 8 6550's.

[Chovie D]

The regular fender twin will break up a bit when cranked all the way. Much like my showman....This is difficult to discover because its dificult to withstand that level of volume long enough to try this out.

The ultralinear twins (i am guessing) will not break up even when cranked all the way.

looking at that pedal and reading the thread, Im thinking maybe the sound this guy is after ...is something I know nothing about.

[FullCustom]

Legend has it that there was a guitar version of the SVT with reverb and trem. SLM made a guitar amp with the power amp from the SVT Classic.

[VOLVO)))]

Legend has it that there was a guitar version of the SVT with reverb and trem. SLM made a guitar amp with the power amp from the SVT Classic.

Ampeg V9

[Lumpy]

Maybe he should try playing through an SVT and 8x10 fridge. Why not.

[liquidsmoke]

Keep in mind, Im an old fart and dont understand you kids and your modern nu-metal sounds 

Wrong word gramps.
And I'm not exactly a spring chicken anymore.

looking at that pedal and reading the thread, Im thinking maybe the sound this guy is after ...is something I know nothing about.

I've got the sound, just want a bit more volume. To me it sounds like a high gain amp's preamp but better. It's all set, doesn't need to go through a cranked and breaking up tube amp to sound good. I'll record a clip tomorrow and post it.

[liquidsmoke]

If those amps aren't loud enough, I wonder if anybody can hear your drummer. That's how you should be setting your volume (to match up with your drummer). In which case the other guys in your band need to turn down.

Our drummer is very loud and we all wear earplugs, generally the good ones like Hearos and what not. I don't think my rig is any louder than his cymbals or snare.

Legend has it that there was a guitar version of the SVT with reverb and trem. SLM made a guitar amp with the power amp from the SVT Classic.

Ampeg V9

Fuckin' cool. Too heavy to lug around though.

Maybe he should try playing through an SVT and 8x10 fridge. Why not.

Will you be my personal roadie? 

I know people love their Ampeg fridges and I know some people are super strong.. I am not. I need gear I can lift up and down stairs by myself if I need to. I should lift weights, just like I should sleep 8 hours a night, read the paper everyday, and do volunteer work.

[zachoff]

Crazy that Bassman 135s are going for over $500 now.  I sold my Bassman 135 and dual showman for $650 a few years back & kinda wish I wouldn't have.  Those heads are f'ing rad.  I've never had an amp that took to pedals better than that one and I've never had an amp with cooler sounding tube break up right up until the fart tone was let loose and then it sucked.  I'm sure it'd be sick for guitar and it's definitely sick for bass if you don't play super loud.  I just had to play super loud and it didn't work at the time.  I'd figure it'd be nothing short of awesome in the studio.

[liquidsmoke]

If anyone is curious here are a couple examples of the types of riffs I tend to play with my current band. The amp volume was half way to practice level and the tone is set about how I've had it since getting the TightMetal. Tried adding more mids yesterday at practice and it cut through better however the sound was more high gain heavy metal 101.


[soundcloud]http://soundcloud.com/mercianband/12-1-12-riffs-tone-demo[/soundcloud]

[morgantician]

Just as a sidebar - I'm shocked with the emphasis that is put on amp weight these days (yano, like the literal version of heavy). I realize we're all old or getting close to it, probably none of us work out, and definitely Ll of us are lazy...but c'mon. If you need volume, you're in a band. If you're in a band, you have band mates. And even if they're just as weak and skinny as us, two of you equal at least one normal able bodied person able to carry 50-75 lbs about 50 feet or so.

Not to mention, I think the majority of people on here fancy a vintage make to their amplifiers - amplifiers from a time where they were built heavy with very little exception. Looking for that tone while being easy on the back sorta sounds like asking for a Big Mac but insisting it has to be under 90 calories.

Anyway...back to the 8000 watts, or whatever.

[RacerX]

I've got no problems lugging heavy gear; I've always done so. The key to moving the heavy stuff is teamwork and lifting properly. You don't have to be a fucking gorilla...

[Chovie D]

I have a bad back so i cant carry or lift anything. When I leave my home with my gear, its juts me, no bandmates. Therefor I will not buy a heavy combo amp like a twin.

Head weight isnt as critical to me, I can lift most of them myself.

[Chovie D]

its hard to tell from that soundclip whats going on because it could just be the way you recorded it...i dont hear any high end tho, its kinda muffled.

[peyotepeddler]

Scale matters, the same tone at a lesser volume just doesn't sound as good. If you want you use the retarded masses as an example then so will I...why are home theater systems so much more common now? Wouldn't hi-fi speakers at 90dB's be just as good as those at 105dB's? Of course they're not. Maybe you guys got some shitty ass tone with your amp on 10 because it certainly takes some work getting a rig to handle high volume without falling apart. Hell, the most painful live tone I've ever heard was a cranked 25-watt solid state amp because it produced nothing but piercing, harshness but some of the best was not just quality tone but loud in a warm, chest thumping way. It's a shame that Matt Pike 3-4 Matamp stacks rig never lasted long but that tone was blissfull...never harsh or strident like he is now. We take in music with more than our ears and scaling it down just won't have the same effect on the listener. There is also the big iron effect. 50-watt Marshall's never sound as good to me as 100-watt Marshall's just like power tube and phase inverter distortion sound better to me than preamp distortion. EL34's and 6L6's also sound better to me than the overly chimey EL84 and the muddy low end of the 6V6 so that's another issue I have with smaller amps.

I also don't subscribe to the masses theory, unless you want to paint sleepy cottages tucked at the feet of mountains with a hazy fog clouding your vision:)

[liquidsmoke]

Just as a sidebar - I'm shocked with the emphasis that is put on amp weight these days (yano, like the literal version of heavy). I realize we're all old or getting close to it, probably none of us work out, and definitely Ll of us are lazy...but c'mon. If you need volume, you're in a band. If you're in a band, you have band mates. And even if they're just as weak and skinny as us, two of you equal at least one normal able bodied person able to carry 50-75 lbs about 50 feet or so.

Not to mention, I think the majority of people on here fancy a vintage make to their amplifiers - amplifiers from a time where they were built heavy with very little exception. Looking for that tone while being easy on the back sorta sounds like asking for a Big Mac but insisting it has to be under 90 calories.

Anyway...back to the 8000 watts, or whatever.

Band mates sometimes aren't around though. I can lift pretty heavy objects however I don't enjoy being sore for 3 days afterwards. It's been years since I had to lift/drag/push super heavy stuff in my warehouse jobs. So glad that is over. No 80 lb head for me. I can lift one no problem, just have no desire to.

its hard to tell from that soundclip whats going on because it could just be the way you recorded it...i dont hear any high end tho, its kinda muffled.

Part of that is the way the mic picked it up but yes it's very dark tone. I'm probably trying too hard to replicate my favorite guitar tones from albums. Finally realizing that tone like that doesn't cut well with the band.

[Mr. Foxen]

Part of that is the way the mic picked it up but yes it's very dark tone. I'm probably trying too hard to replicate my favorite guitar tones from albums. Finally realizing that tone like that doesn't cut well with the band.

Important thing to do while doing that is find an isolated guitar track. Djent was invented by trying to sound like a bass and a snare drum at the same time.

[Lumpy]

Part of that is the way the mic picked it up but yes it's very dark tone. I'm probably trying too hard to replicate my favorite guitar tones from albums. Finally realizing that tone like that doesn't cut well with the band.

That wasn't what I expected to hear, at all. That's not clean by any stretch of the imagination. I thought you said your tone was clean, and the problem was just not enough loudness.

This might sound dumb but copying other peoples' formulas isn't a bad way to go. Figure out who is getting the sounds you like, and then finding out what they use. There are so many different factors (and you won't match all of them) but you can get into the same ballpark, if you can get the big things right (like humbuckers vs. single coils, for example). It can be a good jumping-off point.

After hearing your sound sample, I'm not sure what is going on now.

[VOLVO)))]

Sounds like High on Fire without mids.

[liquidsmoke]

Important thing to do while doing that is find an isolated guitar track. Djent was invented by trying to sound like a bass and a snare drum at the same time.

I'm pretty out of it but isn't djent some sort of metalcore subgenre? I generally dislike that sort of stuff.

I agree on the guitar track thing.

That wasn't what I expected to hear, at all. That's not clean by any stretch of the imagination. I thought you said your tone was clean, and the problem was just not enough loudness.

This might sound dumb but copying other peoples' formulas isn't a bad way to go. Figure out who is getting the sounds you like, and then finding out what they use. There are so many different factors (and you won't match all of them) but you can get into the same ballpark, if you can get the big things right (like humbuckers vs. single coils, for example). It can be a good jumping-off point.

After hearing your sound sample, I'm not sure what is going on now.

I probably didn't explain myself well enough. The clip I posted was through my Ampeg at about halfway to clipping volume. Clipping as in my solid state Ampeg guitar head clipping because it's too loud. What I've got figured out now is that I need more mids in my tone to cut at practice and live, otherwise I'm very satisfied with the tone I'm getting from my distortion pedal. Will probably get a 300-400 watt SS power amp, a preamp that has a good clean channel for the pedal to run through, another 2x12 with Swamp Thangs, and I'll have to settle on using more mids to cut.

The headroom thing is all about wanting to avoid clipping from the amp. Even with a distortion pedal you can hit that point where you start getting extra/bad distortion from your amp. I just want the pedal distortion, no extra tube or solid state distortion mucking things up from an amp. I'm preaching to the choir of course.

I'm even skeptical about preamps with tubes. If my super distorted signal is going to make them freak out and give me extra distortion then I need to go 100% SS.

Sounds like High on Fire without mids.

I agree although part of that is from my SM57/the recording. It doesn't sound as saturated and dark in person.