An open letter to venues who exploit their musicians...

[Dr.Zayus]

http://www.grassrootsy.com/2012/02/22/an-open-letter-to-venues-that-exploit-their-musicians/

[Mr. Foxen]

I'd take the $75 dollar gig if it was local. Don't reckon they'd ask me back.

[Jake]

Great read. Applauded.

[AgentofOblivion]

+1.  I've even stopped playing venues lately because as a "fan" I can't stand to listen to the shit they bring in.  It seems like the goal of bands around here is not to be talented or have a strong groove or a heavy riff, it's to be as obnoxious and loud as possible.  Feedback, cacophony of anti-harmonies, absolute shouting, constant and poorly executed time shifts and drum fills, and of course 100 watt tube amps powering full stacks in a 1200 sq ft room.  I have better things to do on a Saturday evening than listen to 3 or 4 god awful bands just so my band can entertain the people we brought out.  That's why I'm working on playing non-traditional places and constantly turning down venue owners.  We bring people, their shitty tactics drive them away.

[liquidsmoke]

+1.  I've even stopped playing venues lately because as a "fan" I can't stand to listen to the shit they bring in.  It seems like the goal of bands around here is not to be talented or have a strong groove or a heavy riff, it's to be as obnoxious and loud as possible.  Feedback, cacophony of anti-harmonies, absolute shouting, constant and poorly executed time shifts and drum fills, and of course 100 watt tube amps powering full stacks in a 1200 sq ft room.  I have better things to do on a Saturday evening than listen to 3 or 4 god awful bands just so my band can entertain the people we brought out.  That's why I'm working on playing non-traditional places and constantly turning down venue owners.  We bring people, their shitty tactics drive them away.

Are these sludge or metalcore bands? Just curious.

[Lumpy]

Cant get the link to work, maybe they are swamped with traffic

[spookstrickland]

Problem is there are so many bands willing to play for cheap or free or even pay to play that ruin it for everyone. 

[Dr.Zayus]

Cant get the link to work, maybe they are swamped with traffic

The below post has earned quite alot of attention over the last seven weeks.  Full-time saxophonist, Dave Goldberg, wrote an honest letter to venue owners addressing their disregard and exploitation of the working musicians.  The post is powerful and I asked David if I could republish this article on Grassrootsy. I'm hoping that you'll read this and think about what part you play. Venues can take advantage of you, but only if you let them. [original post]

______________________________________________________________________________

As Ive been looking for gigs lately, I've never seen so many free and low paying gigs. Well the economy is bad, so I can understand that a little bit. However, it is no longer good enough for the musician to be willing to perform for little compensation. Now we are expected to also be the venue promoter? The expectations are that the band will not only provide great music, but also bring lots of people to their venue. It is now the band'sresponsibility to make this happen, not the club owner.

Just the other day I was told by someone who owned a wine bar that they really liked our music and would love for us to play at their place. She then told me the gig paid $75 for a trio. Now $75 used to be bad money per person, let alone $75 for the whole band. It had to be a joke, right? No, she was serious. But it didn't end there. She then informed us we had to bring 25 people minimum. Didn't even offer us extra money if we brought 25 people. I would have laughed other than it's not the first time I've gotten this proposal from club owners. But are there musicians really doing this? Yes. They are so desperate to play, they will do anything. But let's think about this for a second and turn this around a little bit.

What if I told the wine bar owner that I have a great band and we are going to play at my house. I need someone to provide and pour wine while we play. I can't pay much, just $75, and you must bring at least 25 people who are willing to pay a $10 cover charge at the door. Now wouldn't they look at you like you are crazy?

"Why would I do that?" they would ask. Well because it's great exposure for you and your wine bar. The people there would see how well you pour wine and see how good your wine is. Then they would come out to your wine bar sometime.  "But I brought all the people myself, I already know them", they would say. Well maybe you could make up some professional looking flyers, pass them out, and get people you don't know to come on out. "But you are only paying me $75. How can I afford to make up flyers?"

You see how absurd this sounds, but musicians do this all the time. If they didn't, then the club owners wouldn't even think of asking us to do it. So this sounds like a great deal for the club owners, doesn't it?  They get a band and customers for that night, and have to pay very little if anything. But what they don'trealize is that this is NOT in their best interest.

     If you want great food, you hire a great chef...It needs to be the same with the band. You hire a great band and should expect great music.

Running a restaurant, a club, a bar, is really hard. There is a lot at stake for the owner. You are trying to get loyal customers that will return because you are offering them something special. If you want great food, you hire a great chef. If you want great décor,you hire a great interior decorator. You expect these professionals to do their best at what you are hiring them to do. It needs to be the same with the band. You hire a great band and should expect great music. That should be the end of your expectations for the musicians. The music is another product for the venue to offer, no different from food or beverages.

When a venue opens it's doors, it has to market itself. The club owner can't expect people to just walk in the door. This has to be handled in a professional way. Do you really want to leave something so important up to a musician? This is where the club owner needs to take over. It is their success or their failure on the line, not the musician. The musician can just move on to another venue. I've played places where, for whatever reason, only a few people have walked in the door on a Saturday night. The club owner got mad at me, asking, "where are the people?" I turned it around on him asking the same thing? "Where are all the people? It's Saturday night and your venue is empty. Doesn't that concern you? What are you going to do about it?"  Usually their answer is to find another band with a larger following.This means the professional bands get run out of the joint in favor of whoever can bring in the most people.

    But here's where the club owner doesn't get it. The Crowd is following the band, not the venue. The next night you will have to start all over again.

Eddie Mechanic, who has slaved all week fixing cars at the local dealership, also plays guitar. Not very well,but he's been practicing once a week with Doctor Drummer, Banker Bass Player, and Salesman Singer. Usually they just drink beer between rehearsing a few tunes in Eddie's garage, but this week they answer a craigslist ad and line up a big gig. Well they don't sound that good, but they sure all work with a lot of people everyday. All these people can be given a flyeron Monday and after being asked "are you coming to my gig?" everyday all week, will most likely show up on Saturday night. So mission accomplished, the club owner has packed his venue for one night.

But here's where the club owner doesn't get it. The Crowd is following the band, not the venue. The next night you will have to start all over again. And the people that were starting to follow your venue, are now turned off because you just made them listen to a bad band. The goal should be to build a fan base for the venue. To get people that will trust that you will have good music in there every night. Instead you've soiled your reputation for a quick fix.

I think we as musicians need to fight back. Sure You can get mad about it, but that won't do anything.We could all agree not to play those for the door gigs, but you know that isn't going to happen. But what we can do, is explain to the club owner that it's not in their best interest to operate their business like this. There is too much at stake for them not to be truly interested in the music presented in their venue. Convince them that if they think that live music is important to the demographic that they are trying to reach, then they need to reach out to that demographic in a professional way. [Read "HOW TO NEGOTIATE WITH A VENUE THAT SAYS THEY CAN'T PAY YOU"]
If you asked a club owner, "who is your target demographic?"  I doubt they would answer, "the band's friends and family."  But yet clubs operate like it is.

    Would you expect the chef's friends and family to eat at your restaurant every night? How about the dishwasher, the waitresses, the hostess? You see, when you start turning this argument around, it becomes silly.

Another example, I answered a craigslist ad for a nice looking place in Beverly Hills. The ad read... "looking for a high energy jazz band, if you can bring the band and have a following, I will put you on stage." That logic seams to say that they think musicians in a jazz band know lots of people living in Beverly Hills. And the people those musicians know, have lots of money to spend. Those are two pretty big assumptions. Good luck finding the combination. Even if you find that combination, are you going to find it every night?  Friends and family of a professional musician won't come out that often. They can't. This is what we do every night. Would you expect the chef's friends and family to eat at your restaurant every night? How about the dishwasher, the waitresses, the hostess? Or how about the club owners friends and family? You see, when you start turning this argument around, it becomes silly.

I've started arguing with club owners about this. It happened after I played a great night of music in LA. We were playing for a % of the bar. There were about50 people there in this small venue, so it was a good turnout. At the end of the night, I go to get paid, and hope to book another gig. The club owner was angry.  "Where are your people?" he asked.  "All these people, I brought in. We had a speed dating event  and they are all left over from that."  I pointed out they all stayed and listened to the music for 2 hours after their event ended. That was 2 more hours of bar sales, because without us, you have an empty room with nothing going on. He just couldn't get over the fact that we didn't walk in with our own entourage of fans. Wasn't he happy that we kept a full room spending money? Right when we were talking, a group of people interrupted us and said "you guys sound  great, when is the next time you're playing here again?" The club owner, said "they aren't, they didn't  bring anyone."

I went home that night bummed out and sent him an email telling him most of what you are reading here and how his business model and thinking is flawed. After a lot of swearing back and forth, because I'm guessing that musicians never talk to him as a business equal. He eventually admitted that what I was saying made sense. BUT, that's not how LA clubs and restaurants work. And he has bands answering his craigslist ads willing to do whatever it takes to get the gig. It's been a couple of years now since that conversation. I called his bar, and the number is disconnected.

So there you go, LA club and restaurant owners.The advice is free. But you'll most likely ignore it because "that's not how it works". But if more musicians kept telling them the same thing, perhaps it would start to sink in.

[Dr.Zayus]

I guess most of us fit into the hobbyists, but maybe if club owners were a little more savvy, the cream of the hobbyists would rise to the top?

[Chovie D]

That article might be  apt for your average jazz joint or blues bar..but in most towns for the music we do, there are only one or two places that do this kind of thing and have these bands. people who go to shows at these places know that if they go on a night when there is not a big name band , they are gonna see some shitty local bands and maybe just maybe discover a good local band. The clubs rep doesnt suffer at all if some band sucks, people expect it on off nights and the clubs make their money on fridays and saturdays when the big boys come to play and fill the club. You'll still go back to cbgbs no matter how many shitty sunday matinees youve endured there  

[Zero]

That article might be  apt for your avergae jazz joint or blues bar..but in most towns for the music we do, there are only one or two places that do this kind of thing and have these bands. people who go to shows at these places know that if they go on a night when there is not a big name band , they are gonna see some shitty local bands and maybe just maye idscover a good local band. The clubs rep doesnt suffer at all if some band sucks, people expect it on off nights and the clubs make their money on fridays and saturdays when the big boys come to play and fill the club. You'll still go back to cbgbs no matter how many shitty sunday matinees youve endured there  

well said.

[Chovie D]

well said, horribly typed. sorry for all the typos

[Demon Lung]

There's nothing better than tasting the tears of crying out of work musicians.

[AgentofOblivion]

+1.  I've even stopped playing venues lately because as a "fan" I can't stand to listen to the shit they bring in.  It seems like the goal of bands around here is not to be talented or have a strong groove or a heavy riff, it's to be as obnoxious and loud as possible.  Feedback, cacophony of anti-harmonies, absolute shouting, constant and poorly executed time shifts and drum fills, and of course 100 watt tube amps powering full stacks in a 1200 sq ft room.  I have better things to do on a Saturday evening than listen to 3 or 4 god awful bands just so my band can entertain the people we brought out.  That's why I'm working on playing non-traditional places and constantly turning down venue owners.  We bring people, their shitty tactics drive them away.

Are these sludge or metalcore bands? Just curious.

I'm not great with knowing what all the subgenres mean, but a lot of them fit into the "hardcore" scene I think.  A lot of bands around here seem to do it, so maybe it's just me.  That said, there are a couple bands that I DO like in the category.  I just don't know if it's a talent thing or a me thing.  Chances are it's a me thing  

[Pissy]

I don't really agree with that dude. I'm absolutely floored the band got a percentage of the bar.

[Chovie D]

usually when I go to a show, i go only to see the band Im going to see. IF there is an opener, or god forbid 3 openers, I stay at nearby bars until its showtime.
I guess the clubs lose out on my drink  money for that hour, but they get my door money.

this article is more for the bars on a strip that try and attract walk-ins I think?
"the blues band at JimmyJams really sucked. IM never going back there, next time Ill go two doors down and check out Puddfuckers or across the street to Shotkickers."

[Pissy]

Promote?

Maaan... I just play and get paid. Why didn't you have more people watching me play?  It's your club. I feel exploited.

[Pissy]

...And By the way I know I didn't shell anything out to stock the bar, but I prefer to be paid off of the top of the bar sales. While your at it, have the bartender tip me out too.

[Chovie D]

"percentage of bar"=we are going to lie to you say we made nothing and give you zilch.

"but I brought twenty friends and they all told me they spent 20$ at the bar?"

"NO, NO, you get a percentage of the CREDIT CARD sales, didnt we explain that to you?"

its never worked out for me

[RacerX]

There's nothing better than tasting the tears of crying out of work musicians.

Wow, you're even more of a douchenozzle than I had thought.

[eoin_not_ian]

More than two paragraphs = something I can't be bothered to read unless I'm being paid to read it.

[Chovie D]

thats leaves out most books and even the penthouse forum...good on ya!

[spookstrickland]

"percentage of bar"=we are going to lie to you say we made nothing and give you zilch.

"but I brought twenty friends and they all told me they spent 20$ at the bar?"

"NO, NO, you get a percentage of the CREDIT CARD sales, didnt we explain that to you?"

its never worked out for me

Yep, I've been ripped off like that before too.  The best time is when you see the door man pack it in and run with the money while you are still playing!  Had that happen twice!

[liquidsmoke]

"We could all agree not to play those for the door gigs, but you know that isn't going to happen."



When the door gets $5 or $7 from 30/50/80 people for 3 or 4 bands it ain't much per person but it's reasonable enough to me. Of course I'm thinking about underground rock/metal shows at small venues some of which don't even have a sound person and big PA. Paying the sound person from drink sale money works when people actually show up. Plenty of bills just suck ass though. Also many people would rather be sleeping or gazing into a screen of some sort, great bands or not, advertised or not. It ain't the '70s anymore, sadly.

[mortlock]

+1.  I've even stopped playing venues lately because as a "fan" I can't stand to listen to the shit they bring in.  It seems like the goal of bands around here is not to be talented or have a strong groove or a heavy riff, it's to be as obnoxious and loud as possible.  Feedback, cacophony of anti-harmonies, absolute shouting, constant and poorly executed time shifts and drum fills, and of course 100 watt tube amps powering full stacks in a 1200 sq ft room.  I have better things to do on a Saturday evening than listen to 3 or 4 god awful bands just so my band can entertain the people we brought out.  That's why I'm working on playing non-traditional places and constantly turning down venue owners.  We bring people, their shitty tactics drive them away.

Are these sludge or metalcore bands? Just curious.

I'm not great with knowing what all the subgenres mean, but a lot of them fit into the "hardcore" scene I think.  A lot of bands around here seem to do it, so maybe it's just me.  That said, there are a couple bands that I DO like in the category.  I just don't know if it's a talent thing or a me thing.  Chances are it's a me thing  

you would hate my band..