Any signed bands here?

[Mr. Foxen]

http://anyandallrecords.com/

[Demon Lung]

Record deals are pointless when it comes to the Internet and new technology. You make make quality sounding music and release it on the Internet for 100% profit. You want to pay a record label to market you? Market yourself. You know all the websites to go to where stoner rockers hang out. If they like your music then they will be your marketers

[clockwork green]

no we're terrible.  we dont actually play instruments, we just fart into microphones.

You should get an all female band and play the art-rock scenester shows as Captain Queefheart.

[Metal and Beer]

Captain Beeflaps

[Mike IQ]

I'm signed to a subsidiary of a company that makes VCRs and telegraphs. I was woo'd by an A&R guy in a satin baseball jacket with a ponytail who said, "I'm gonna make you a star, baby!" over a giant plate of cocaine in the back of a limo. It's 1979.

[skydogdiesel]

You should get an all female band and play the art-rock scenester shows as Captain Queefheart.

hahahahahahah!!!!! nice one...

[Glitchyghost]

Record deals are pointless when it comes to the Internet and new technology. You make make quality sounding music and release it on the Internet for 100% profit. You want to pay a record label to market you? Market yourself. You know all the websites to go to where stoner rockers hang out. If they like your music then they will be your marketers

Whenever I see people give others advice like this, I  have to ask - and I mean this with all due respect - how many labels have you turned down then?

[clockwork green]

Record deals are pointless when it comes to the Internet and new technology. You make make quality sounding music and release it on the Internet for 100% profit. You want to pay a record label to market you? Market yourself. You know all the websites to go to where stoner rockers hang out. If they like your music then they will be your marketers

Whenever I see people give others advice like this, I  have to ask - and I mean this with all due respect - how many labels have you turned down then?

Well then, what's your experience with small stone? What have they done for you that you couldn't do for yourself? Do you think you've benefitted from the relationship? Have they benefitted from the relationship? How would you like to progress with your relationship? Do you see your band continuing to work with them, another label or no label in the near future? Why?

[Glitchyghost]

Benefits, yes.  Distro and licensing connections. Good shows, tours, etc.   If Demon Lung was strictly referring to what a band is able to do DIY online, sans label, then I kind of agree there.   But it'll only take you so far, and the next step will be whatever success means to you personally.   I don't consider my band to be "big", or "out there", or whatever.  Did some touring, played some underground fests, did the DIY thing, self-funded 3 crappy records.   Then, found myself in the right places at the right time.   Most of them having to do with finding killer musicians to play with.  Cause the label wouldn't be there without that, to be sure.

Get out there and play with some good bands who will put in a good word for you.  Get your 10,000 hours in.   That's my advice.   

[AgentofOblivion]

Benefits, yes.  Distro and licensing connections. Good shows, tours, etc.   If Demon Lung was strictly referring to what a band is able to do DIY online, sans label, then I kind of agree there.   But it'll only take you so far, and the next step will be whatever success means to you personally.   I don't consider my band to be "big", or "out there", or whatever.  Did some touring, played some underground fests, did the DIY thing, self-funded 3 crappy records.   Then, found myself in the right places at the right time.   Most of them having to do with finding killer musicians to play with.  Cause the label wouldn't be there without that, to be sure.

Get out there and play with some good bands who will put in a good word for you.  Get your 10,000 hours in.   That's my advice.   

Bravo.  It's so easy to say "Record labels are bad, evil entities!"  Bands wouldn't work with them if they didn't offer benefits.  That's not to say it's impossible to succeed without them, but connections make everything much easier and decent labels certainly have those.  Every one I've worked with so far has been incredibly helpful and it's been a symbiotic type of thing.  I don't know why a big indie label would be any different.  Sure there's costs, but both parties can benefit without anyone being fucked over. 

[clockwork green]

It won't much matter...they're on the wrong end of an exponential curve of extinction. They're disappearing faster than ever before.

[Mr. Foxen]

It won't much matter...they're on the wrong end of an exponential curve of extinction. They're disappearing faster than ever before.

This means when your label goes down, all your contacts and goodwill and suchlike goes with them. Put your own effort it, and all that is for keeps, even if you move on to new bands.

[Glitchyghost]

It won't much matter...they're on the wrong end of an exponential curve of extinction. They're disappearing faster than ever before.

I think that's a narrow perspective, but one shared by lots of people right now.  I don't see them as being on an extinction curve.  Labels "as you've known them for the last 3 decades" is what you should be saying.

Look, everyone is good at something.  Why do you think labels came into existence in the first place?  Because most musicians simply suck at the business end of it.  Period.  There's a lot of disciplines involved in getting all the moving parts working just right.  The formula for success involves many ingredients.   Maybe, if you're lucky, you'll be in a band where one guy has an MBA, another an understanding of the law, trademarks, and copyrights, and another simply has the right connections.   That, on top of everyone being top class players.    Try having zero muscle behind your project, then finding out some shady overseas "music service" has been selling your music and keeping 100% of the profits.  

[Hemisaurus]

Seriously though, horses for courses, making a living as a musician sucks (ask Danny G.), trying to get money as a musician sucks, I'm just interested in getting it out there, especially now the medium doesn't cost anything, with things like bandcamp. I like the heavyhound business model, if there were like bands in my area, I'd record them for free and put it out there too.

None of that, of course, helps you get your euro-gigs and festi-gigs, see previous comment about getting a manager.

[Demon Lung]

Benefits, yes.  Distro and licensing connections. Good shows, tours, etc.   If Demon Lung was strictly referring to what a band is able to do DIY online, sans label, then I kind of agree there.   But it'll only take you so far, and the next step will be whatever success means to you personally.   I don't consider my band to be "big", or "out there", or whatever.  Did some touring, played some underground fests, did the DIY thing, self-funded 3 crappy records.   Then, found myself in the right places at the right time.   Most of them having to do with finding killer musicians to play with.  Cause the label wouldn't be there without that, to be sure.

Get out there and play with some good bands who will put in a good word for you.  Get your 10,000 hours in.   That's my advice.

oh you are under the assumption that there's money to be made in heavy music.

[Lumpy]

Just to state the obvious, the old Albini article was directed at major labels. Albini supported the mission of indie labels and 'big' indies (jumbo shrimp?) like Touch & Go.

Small Stone, Holy Mountain, etc are like today's Touch & Go, arguably.

Focus, people.

[Hemisaurus]

Whenever I see people give others advice like this, I  have to ask - and I mean this with all due respect - how many labels have you turned down then?

Two. One in this band, quite early on, one in a previous project. Neither from labels I'd heard of.

[clockwork green]

It won't much matter...they're on the wrong end of an exponential curve of extinction. They're disappearing faster than ever before.

I think that's a narrow perspective, but one shared by lots of people right now.  I don't see them as being on an extinction curve.  Labels "as you've known them for the last 3 decades" is what you should be saying.

Look, everyone is good at something.  Why do you think labels came into existence in the first place?  Because most musicians simply suck at the business end of it.  Period.  There's a lot of disciplines involved in getting all the moving parts working just right.  The formula for success involves many ingredients.   Maybe, if you're lucky, you'll be in a band where one guy has an MBA, another an understanding of the law, trademarks, and copyrights, and another simply has the right connections.   That, on top of everyone being top class players.    Try having zero muscle behind your project, then finding out some shady overseas "music service" has been selling your music and keeping 100% of the profits.  

Who's making enough money to even worry about European royalties? Why bother spending $10,000 in lawyer fees to recoup a few hundred bucks from Spotify which is going broke.  If High On Fire and all their label power still has day jobs and Matt Pike drives a 30 year old Mazda then what's the point of the label? They can be plenty broke on their own.  For the rest of us, get a good booking agent so you can tour for a couple of weeks a year, send your shit out to some blogs and magazines and maybe save up from your day jobs and local gigs to fly to one of the bigger festivals and that's about all you can hope for.  If you want more then maybe you can consider hiring a manager but the label is just trying to bundle things for you and that doesn't work for you cable bill and it rarely works for you records.  If you sign to a label then you're hiring a guy to try and sell your songs anyways, you might as well do it directly or attempt to pool your money with some other local bands if you really want your songs in movies and TV.  Giving up control and always comes at a cost but passing it off to a label just puts too many layers between you and your particular goal. 

[Glitchyghost]

Benefits, yes.  Distro and licensing connections. Good shows, tours, etc.   If Demon Lung was strictly referring to what a band is able to do DIY online, sans label, then I kind of agree there.   But it'll only take you so far, and the next step will be whatever success means to you personally.   I don't consider my band to be "big", or "out there", or whatever.  Did some touring, played some underground fests, did the DIY thing, self-funded 3 crappy records.   Then, found myself in the right places at the right time.   Most of them having to do with finding killer musicians to play with.  Cause the label wouldn't be there without that, to be sure.

Get out there and play with some good bands who will put in a good word for you.  Get your 10,000 hours in.   That's my advice.

oh you are under the assumption that there's money to be made in heavy music.

I never said that.

[Glitchyghost]

It won't much matter...they're on the wrong end of an exponential curve of extinction. They're disappearing faster than ever before.

I think that's a narrow perspective, but one shared by lots of people right now.  I don't see them as being on an extinction curve.  Labels "as you've known them for the last 3 decades" is what you should be saying.

Look, everyone is good at something.  Why do you think labels came into existence in the first place?  Because most musicians simply suck at the business end of it.  Period.  There's a lot of disciplines involved in getting all the moving parts working just right.  The formula for success involves many ingredients.   Maybe, if you're lucky, you'll be in a band where one guy has an MBA, another an understanding of the law, trademarks, and copyrights, and another simply has the right connections.   That, on top of everyone being top class players.    Try having zero muscle behind your project, then finding out some shady overseas "music service" has been selling your music and keeping 100% of the profits.  

Who's making enough money to even worry about European royalties? Why bother spending $10,000 in lawyer fees to recoup a few hundred bucks from Spotify which is going broke.  If High On Fire and all their label power still has day jobs and Matt Pike drives a 30 year old Mazda then what's the point of the label? They can be plenty broke on their own.  For the rest of us, get a good booking agent so you can tour for a couple of weeks a year, send your shit out to some blogs and magazines and maybe save up from your day jobs and local gigs to fly to one of the bigger festivals and that's about all you can hope for.  If you want more then maybe you can consider hiring a manager but the label is just trying to bundle things for you and that doesn't work for you cable bill and it rarely works for you records.  If you sign to a label then you're hiring a guy to try and sell your songs anyways, you might as well do it directly or attempt to pool your money with some other local bands if you really want your songs in movies and TV.  Giving up control and always comes at a cost but passing it off to a label just puts too many layers between you and your particular goal.  

Both of your responses focus on money and giving up control of your tunes.      You don't have to be concerned with the former, or commit to the latter.   Work the deal you want, and if you can't, then pass until you get the one you want.  In which seems to have been the case for Hemisaurus.  

Who's making enough money?   Some people actually are, believe it or not.  And when someone is stealing your shit and actually selling it illegally, you either say "fuck it", or do something about it.    You bring up Matt Pike and his car right after that statement.   How fucking lame.   Do you measure success by the car someone drives then?    You brought up Pike, so let's use him to further your example.  He DID put his entire life into his music.  So if someone is out there ripping him off, he better damn well have someone in his corner to help him set it straight. Because it's his livelihood at that point.   

All I'm trying to do is give a perspective from the other side, because it was asked for.   But you both are intent on shutting down the idea of labels no matter what.  Your way is not the way to go for everyone.  And neither is mine.    Everyone's got their own choice to make.

I never once claimed that I think there's money to be made in this, or that I have allusions that I will some day.     I've invested in my education and my career.  Without music, I'm totally fine.   But I'm also an ASCAP member, and I do make some money from this.  If you're not, sorry.

So regardless of your pessimistic outlooks about the subject -  labels,  in some sort of capacity, will work for someone people Whether they become more of a "union", or a collective.   Whatever creative ways people can come up with to use power in numbers to get the music out there.  That's what I'm talking about.   

[Lumpy]

For the rest of us, get a good booking agent so you can tour for a couple of weeks a year, send your shit out to some blogs and magazines and maybe save up from your day jobs and local gigs to fly to one of the bigger festivals and that's about all you can hope for.  If you want more then maybe you can consider hiring a manager but the label is just trying to bundle things for you and that doesn't work for you cable bill and it rarely works for you records.  If you sign to a label then you're hiring a guy to try and sell your songs anyways, you might as well do it directly or attempt to pool your money with some other local bands if you really want your songs in movies and TV.  Giving up control and always comes at a cost but passing it off to a label just puts too many layers between you and your particular goal. 

Can you get a good booking agent without being on a label? Can you get reviewed on blogs and in magazines, or play at an out-of-town festival, or hire a quality manager, without already being on a label? Not every good band can, IMO.

I wouldn't say that being on a label is the be-all and end-all (for one thing, not all labels are equal, and why divide the money with people who sometimes didn't do anything for you) but for the bands who are interested and ready, I can't see any harm in trying. If you can't get somebody to release your record then release it yourself, sure. Don't let it stop you. There are more good bands than opportunities on good labels. But I don't see the point in not investigating a label deal, if your band is good enough. If nobody bites, you can always DIY.

I checked out the original link, it's instrumental stoner rock with a desert vibe. I don't know how marketable that is, at the moment. I would say if nobody wants to release your record, be prepared to DIY.

[clockwork green]

It won't much matter...they're on the wrong end of an exponential curve of extinction. They're disappearing faster than ever before.

I think that's a narrow perspective, but one shared by lots of people right now.  I don't see them as being on an extinction curve.  Labels "as you've known them for the last 3 decades" is what you should be saying.

Look, everyone is good at something.  Why do you think labels came into existence in the first place?  Because most musicians simply suck at the business end of it.  Period.  There's a lot of disciplines involved in getting all the moving parts working just right.  The formula for success involves many ingredients.   Maybe, if you're lucky, you'll be in a band where one guy has an MBA, another an understanding of the law, trademarks, and copyrights, and another simply has the right connections.   That, on top of everyone being top class players.    Try having zero muscle behind your project, then finding out some shady overseas "music service" has been selling your music and keeping 100% of the profits.  

Who's making enough money to even worry about European royalties? Why bother spending $10,000 in lawyer fees to recoup a few hundred bucks from Spotify which is going broke.  If High On Fire and all their label power still has day jobs and Matt Pike drives a 30 year old Mazda then what's the point of the label? They can be plenty broke on their own.  For the rest of us, get a good booking agent so you can tour for a couple of weeks a year, send your shit out to some blogs and magazines and maybe save up from your day jobs and local gigs to fly to one of the bigger festivals and that's about all you can hope for.  If you want more then maybe you can consider hiring a manager but the label is just trying to bundle things for you and that doesn't work for you cable bill and it rarely works for you records.  If you sign to a label then you're hiring a guy to try and sell your songs anyways, you might as well do it directly or attempt to pool your money with some other local bands if you really want your songs in movies and TV.  Giving up control and always comes at a cost but passing it off to a label just puts too many layers between you and your particular goal.  

Both of your responses focus on money and giving up control of your tunes.      You don't have to be concerned with the former, or commit to the latter.   Work the deal you want, and if you can't, then pass until you get the one you want.  In which seems to have been the case for Hemisaurus.  

Who's making enough money?   Some people actually are, believe it or not.  And when someone is stealing your shit and actually selling it illegally, you either say "fuck it", or do something about it.    You bring up Matt Pike and his car right after that statement.   How fucking lame.   Do you measure success by the car someone drives then?    You brought up Pike, so let's use him to further your example.  He DID put his entire life into his music.  So if someone is out there ripping him off, he better damn well have someone in his corner to help him set it straight. Because it's his livelihood at that point.   

All I'm trying to do is give a perspective from the other side, because it was asked for.   But you both are intent on shutting down the idea of labels no matter what.  Your way is not the way to go for everyone.  And neither is mine.    Everyone's got their own choice to make.

I never once claimed that I think there's money to be made in this, or that I have allusions that I will some day.     I've invested in my education and my career.  Without music, I'm totally fine.   But I'm also an ASCAP member, and I do make some money from this.  If you're not, sorry.

So regardless of your pessimistic outlooks about the subject -  labels,  in some sort of capacity, will work for someone people Whether they become more of a "union", or a collective.   Whatever creative ways people can come up with to use power in numbers to get the music out there.  That's what I'm talking about.   

You brought money into this my only point with Pike's car was that there's not nearly enough money in this to making fighting over royalties...you'll spend more in the lawyer than the royalties are worth. I've only used an attorney once and it was $350 an hour for the cheapest one I could find and I honestly doubt your spotify royalties are more than an hour or two of that rate...sadly that's a ton of plays.

They funny thing is that you find what I'm saying pessimistic.  Sure I think the death of labels small and large is a good thing but the power that every musician now has is amazing. Never before have musicians and music listeners had so much available so easily. Fuck the money. I've spent a lot of money just to be moderately happy with my tone to play a handful of shows a year for people that don't care and I would never give that up because the songs mean something to me. How many people really get to do something this important, intimate and personal? Making a living would be fine but is not at all necessary.

[Hemisaurus]

booking agent, maybe a better idea than manager, I like it.

[RacerX]

Small Stone is an excellent label, and koi/Dwellers have clearly benefitted from their association with the label (some peeps will buy SS stuff unseen/unheard) and distro.

However, if you're not willing/able to tour extensively, you'd probably be better off without a label—that's usually part of the deal: they manufacture/distribute; you tour yer asses off & sell lotsa CDs & merch.

[rayinreverse]

I would love for you to find a good booking agent that will work with you, without some sort of label support.