What to get for next level.

Dr. Skeeter · October 20, 2011, 08:58:33 PM

I dunno what beta is.

At_Giza · October 20, 2011, 08:59:16 PM

This:

Dr. Skeeter · October 20, 2011, 09:06:09 PM

I would really love someone to copy/paste or write up some long explanation of all this tech stuff and why certain gear is good and how stuff works and what not. I get the basics. Vintage tube amp= the tits. I don't know why, but I know when I hear one I cum. I'd feel bad for making someone write that much though. It'd probably really help a lot of peeps though.

Hemisaurus · October 20, 2011, 09:10:17 PM

Actually most pedals will drive a power amp. What comes out your bass is a tiny signal a few tens of thousands of a volt. A preamp, or a boost pedal or whatever you use will amplify that signal by 20dB (100 times bigger) and make it about a volt.

That is all you need something to make the voltage 100 times bigger, you can also get one with a tone control, or treble and bass, or distortion or compression. You can also buy a $15 Danelectro FAB Overdrive and use that, just whatever gets that signal up to a volt or so.

Then the power amp takes that signal and increases both the voltage and current of it (think like height and width) making it strong enough to drive speakers.

There's no magic in the preamp it's just a 100 times voltage gain, and some signal EQ if you want it.

dunwichamps · October 20, 2011, 09:11:55 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 20, 2011, 09:10:17 PM
Actually most pedals will drive a power amp. What comes out your bass is a tiny signal a few tens of thousands of a volt. A preamp, or a boost pedal or whatever you use will amplify that signal by 20dB (100 times bigger) and make it about a volt.

That is all you need something to make the voltage 100 times bigger, you can also get one with a tone control, or treble and bass, or distortion or compression. You can also buy a $15 Danelectro FAB Overdrive and use that, just whatever gets that signal up to a volt or so.

Then the power amp takes that signal and increases both the voltage and current of it (think like height and width) making it strong enough to drive speakers.

There's no magic in the preamp it's just a 100 times voltage gain, and some signal EQ if you want it.

preamp is just for coloring your sound, allowing you to use a lossy passive EQ for instance or to get distortion. Hemi is right all you need is a power unit and single 9V driven pedal to get shit going

Hemisaurus · October 20, 2011, 09:17:07 PM

Quote from: zackled on October 20, 2011, 09:06:09 PM
I would really love someone to copy/paste or write up some long explanation of all this tech stuff and why certain gear is good and how stuff works and what not. I get the basics. Vintage tube amp= the tits. I don't know why, but I know when I hear one I cum. I'd feel bad for making someone write that much though. It'd probably really help a lot of peeps though.

Dude that's what Google is for, and sound is subjective, some people hate the sound of tubes, Greg Ginn as I recall for one. Or is Black Flag too old

All gear is good, if used properly, if it makes a sound you like. I can take a $15 pedal, and amp I got for free and a 2x15 that cost me $50, and make it sound like an Ampeg SVT and 8x10 that costs $1600 for the amp and $1000 for the cab.

You won't get a new, off the shelf, setup for $500 that's going to sound like a $2600 bass rig. If you're willing to experiment with gear a little, get a few cheap pedals to play with, have a few cheap cabs to mix in, and so on. Or forget the off the shelf, run a few pedals into a power amp into a couple of used cabs save some bucks.

Hemisaurus · October 20, 2011, 09:18:17 PM

Quote from: dunwichamps on October 20, 2011, 09:11:55 PM

preamp is just for coloring your sound, allowing you to use a lossy passive EQ for instance or to get distortion. Hemi is right all you need is a power unit and single 9V driven pedal to get shit going

Dude, your first post about amps where you haven't said LTPI, I'm so proud

At_Giza · October 20, 2011, 09:22:55 PM

See? I told you someone would explain it better!

Since Top Gear is over for now, I'm going to make a retarded mess of things now and make a total ass of myself.

I suppose we should start with the basics.

Every amp that does all the amplification work, for instance those "vintage tube amps" are for all intents and purposes herein are two amplifiers in one. Both the preamp and the power amp are contained in one box or shelve, or bag, or whatever someone decided to put it in after building it. For preamp/power amp set ups it is simply the whole amp split into two pieces as I said, not put in one sack of whatever.

Certain gear being "good" is pretty much all up to someone's preference. While there are many here that would absolutely tear apart someone else for loving certain pieces of gear, we will not go into that, because subjective bullshit is just people's opinion shat out in a wonderful patty for everyone else's consumption.

ANYWAY, the speaker thing I think has been explained here already sufficiently so I will just focus on amps and other relevant but ultimately unrelated stuff.

So, as well you know, "vintage tube amps" are "tits" (while that would be awesome, and I implore someone artistic enough to make an amplifier that is contained in some manner of boobs, that is something we really don't need to be going into). That really should say, "A good many vintage tube amps = tits" because I've played many-an old tube amp that is just balls, but hairy, sweaty, deformed balls. So as a rule of thumb, not all vintage tube amps are in fact tits, just a lot of them (because there is a fuckpile of them to choose from).

As explained already by two much more qualified dudes preamps are whatever they said and they do again whatever they said. So pay attention to them and not me, I'm just going "blah blah blah" right now.

Anyway, it's all subjective, the technical jargon is not what you need. You just need to experiment with gear (like I have, I've probably owned 200 or so pieces of gear in the last seven years, not surprisingly it's mostly gone because it wasn't what I ultimately wanted). When you find what you want in your rig to get the sound that you want, stick with that, but never stop experimenting, because there is a lot that will be able to make the same sound, or in fact a better sound that you really fancy.

DID I JUST SAY WHAT SOMEONE ELSE SAID? Yeah, I did, didn't even realize it until I checked the new posts, well hell, experimentation, that's the ticket.

Dr. Skeeter · October 20, 2011, 09:23:32 PM

Well i'll do some saving and some searching. If there are any links you guys wanna post of cool cheap gear that sounds good it'll be appreciated. I will probably necro this thread in a few month with updates.

Lumpy · October 20, 2011, 09:24:49 PM

I agree with Hemisaurus.

Search Craigs List for this:

8x10 (good price= $400)
or
2x15 (good price = less than 200)

Report back when you find something. Peavey and Ampeg are good finds.

Power amps: not the same as a "head" -- a power amp is generic clean power 'rack unit' that can be used for anything... PA or whatever. Power amps are cheap now because they started making 'em lightweight. A lot of people are upgrading -- selling their (slightly older) heavy-ass amps for cheap now (can you lift 40 pounds?) Around 200 bucks.

If you outgrow the power amp, you can always find a use for it (vocals, or CD player at the practice spot). Good example: QSC RMX 850. Anything from Crown, Crest, Peavey or QSC.

It's nice to have a pre-amp but you don't HAVE to have one. Pre-amp is just for tone-shaping. If your bass sounds good (probably does) it will sound good amplified too. You can put any kind of fuzz/distortion into the power amp = instant boner (do the kids still say that?)

USE CRAIGS LIST. Also, fancy gear is VERY over-rated. Tube amps are not necessary for bass players. The more big speaker cabinets, the better (limited only by your transportation ability.)

Dr. Skeeter · October 20, 2011, 09:26:04 PM

Quote from: At_Giza on October 20, 2011, 09:22:55 PM
See? I told you someone would explain it better!

Since Top Gear is over for now, I'm going to make a retarded mess of things now and make a total ass of myself.

I suppose we should start with the basics.

Every amp that does all the amplification work, for instance those "vintage tube amps" are for all intents and purposes herein are two amplifiers in one. Both the preamp and the power amp are contained in one box or shelve, or bag, or whatever someone decided to put it in after building it. For preamp/power amp set ups it is simply the whole amp split into two pieces as I said, not put in one sack of whatever.

Certain gear being "good" is pretty much all up to someone's preference. While there are many here that would absolutely tear apart someone else for loving certain pieces of gear, we will not go into that, because subjective bullshit is just people's opinion shat out in a wonderful patty for everyone else's consumption.

ANYWAY, the speaker thing I think has been explained here already sufficiently so I will just focus on amps and other relevant but ultimately unrelated stuff.

So, as well you know, "vintage tube amps" are "tits" (while that would be awesome, and I implore someone artistic enough to make an amplifier that is contained in some manner of boobs, that is something we really don't need to be going into). That really should say, "A good many vintage tube amps = tits" because I've played many-an old tube amp that is just balls, but hairy, sweaty, deformed balls. So as a rule of thumb, not all vintage tube amps are in fact tits, just a lot of them (because there is a fuckpile of them to choose from).

As explained already by two much more qualified dudes preamps are whatever they said and they do again whatever they said. So pay attention to them and not me, I'm just going "blah blah blah" right now.

Anyway, it's all subjective, the technical jargon is not what you need. You just need to experiment with gear (like I have, I've probably owned 200 or so pieces of gear in the last seven years, not surprisingly it's mostly gone because it wasn't what I ultimately wanted). When you find what you want in your rig to get the sound that you want, stick with that, but never stop experimenting, because there is a lot that will be able to make the same sound, or in fact a better sound that you really fancy.

DID I JUST SAY WHAT SOMEONE ELSE SAID? Yeah, I did, didn't even realize it until I checked the new posts, well hell, experimentation, that's the ticket.

This has helped a lot though. Thanks a lot.

Dr. Skeeter · October 20, 2011, 09:29:33 PM

Quote from: Lumpy on October 20, 2011, 09:24:49 PM
I agree with Hemisaurus.

Search Craigs List for this:

8x10 (good price= $400)
or
2x15 (good price = less than 200)

Report back when you find something. Peavey and Ampeg are good finds.

Power amps: not the same as a "head" -- a power amp is generic clean power 'rack unit' that can be used for anything... PA or whatever. Power amps are cheap now because they started making 'em lightweight. A lot of people are upgrading -- selling their (slightly older) heavy-ass amps for cheap now (can you lift 40 pounds?) Around 200 bucks.

If you outgrow the power amp, you can always find a use for it (vocals, or CD player at the practice spot). Good example: QSC RMX 850. Anything from Crown, Crest, Peavey or QSC.

It's nice to have a pre-amp but you don't HAVE to have one. Pre-amp is just for tone-shaping. If your bass sounds good (probably does) it will sound good amplified too. You can put any kind of fuzz/distortion into the power amp = instant boner (do the kids still say that?)

USE CRAIGS LIST. Also, fancy gear is VERY over-rated. Tube amps are not necessary for bass players. The more big speaker cabinets, the better (limited only by your transportation ability.)

So are you saying a pre amp is not necessary at all?

At_Giza · October 20, 2011, 09:31:59 PM

They're necessary! Don't ever mistake that! Except when you take Sunn's amps into consideration when they just slightly equalize the lows/mids/highs an maybe boost the lows or highs a itty bitty bit and remain clean ten miles high thus making them probably one of the best effects platforms ever devised.

Dr. Skeeter · October 20, 2011, 09:33:15 PM

This guy gave me an equation for insta-boner which did not include pre amp.

Is he insane?

dunwichamps · October 20, 2011, 09:33:15 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 20, 2011, 09:18:17 PM
Quote from: dunwichamps on October 20, 2011, 09:11:55 PM

preamp is just for coloring your sound, allowing you to use a lossy passive EQ for instance or to get distortion. Hemi is right all you need is a power unit and single 9V driven pedal to get shit going

Dude, your first post about amps where you haven't said LTPI, I'm so proud

every now and then i forget to speak geek

these fuckers just came in

they will take you to the next level

Hemisaurus · October 20, 2011, 09:35:35 PM

He's just saying what I've said earlier, you can use a fuzz/overdrive/distortion/boost pedal as a preamp, you have to have at least one of these between your bass and a power amp.

If your paying $200 for a used power amp, check that it's better than one you can get new for the same price, used power amps aren't always a good deal, at least not round here, shitty old Peaveys with a couple of hundred watts for the same price as a new amp with a couple of thousand.

Lumpy · October 20, 2011, 09:38:25 PM

Preamps aren't necessary if you have a good bass. Why would they be necessary. You can just throw an EQ pedal in front, or a fuzz with EQ if you need EQ.

I've played bass directly through a power amp, nothing else, and it sounds good... loud and clean. If I had needed to EQ, I would have needed to add something. I didn't. Bass -->Fuzz---> power amp: sounds great.

Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 20, 2011, 09:35:35 PM
He's just saying what I've said earlier, you can use a fuzz/overdrive/distortion/boost pedal as a preamp, you have to have at least one of these between your bass and a power amp

No you don't.

Dr. Skeeter · October 20, 2011, 09:39:01 PM

So instead of

bass-pre amp-power amp

It could be

bass-pedals-power amp

Can you get some gnarly tones from any special pre amp that is better than a mix of pedals?

dunwichamps · October 20, 2011, 09:40:00 PM

Quote from: Lumpy on October 20, 2011, 09:38:25 PM
Preamps aren't necessary if you have a good bass. Why would they be necessary. You can just throw an EQ pedal in front, or a fuzz with EQ if you need EQ.

I've played bass directly through a power amp, nothing else, and it sounds good... loud and clean. If I had needed to EQ, I would have needed to add something. I didn't. Bass -->Fuzz---> power amp: sounds great.

Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 20, 2011, 09:35:35 PM
He's just saying what I've said earlier, you can use a fuzz/overdrive/distortion/boost pedal as a preamp, you have to have at least one of these between your bass and a power amp

No you don't.

depends upon how sensitive the phase inverter and driver circuit are.

Dr. Skeeter · October 20, 2011, 09:40:22 PM

Speaking of this my J-Bass has had a horrible crackling sound and I assume it is the output. Do I need a new one?

dunwichamps · October 20, 2011, 09:41:18 PM

Quote from: zackled on October 20, 2011, 09:40:22 PM
Speaking of this my J-Bass has had a horrible crackling sound and I assume it is the output. Do I need a new one?

could be a shit jack

Lumpy · October 20, 2011, 09:43:38 PM

Quote from: zackled on October 20, 2011, 09:39:01 PM
Can you get some gnarly tones from any special pre amp that is better than a mix of pedals?

I don't think so.

You said you're trying to do it on a small budget. So that's why we are recommending a stripped down approach.

Dr. Skeeter · October 20, 2011, 09:45:48 PM

What would be a large budget with gnarly tone?

And I could build on this excessively, right? Because I don't want to buy a bunch of junk that I can't do much with later. If that's the case i'd be willing to invest more and buy stuff that will last.

bitter · October 20, 2011, 09:55:27 PM

Quote from: zackled on October 20, 2011, 09:45:48 PM
What would be a large budget with gnarly tone?

And I could build on this excessively, right? Because I don't want to buy a bunch of junk that I can't do much with later. If that's the case i'd be willing to invest more and buy stuff that will last.

Like Lumpy and others were saying, those power amps can be used as you bands PA or for monitors, ect... Good investment in the long run.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/BDI21.aspx - little preamps like this are cheap so you wouldn't be out much coin. You can record with most of these preamps (Direct out features and whatnot). Or you could just run other type of pedal to drive the power amp and still use those pedals with other rigs (bass, guitar, keyboards, ect..)

VOLVO))) · October 20, 2011, 09:56:34 PM

First vid is an acoustic 370, and an 8x10.
Both beta lead vids are a beta lead and an 8x10.
The song is recorded with a beta lead/4x12, and a beta lead/2x15 for bass and a drum machine.

Get a Sansamp Bass driver, and a 500+ watt poweramp. I paid 80 bucks for a 1200 watt poweramp, and 20 bucks for a sansamp at a yard sale. I liked it until I got my 370.