Is an entertainment lawyer needed?

[chille01]

I went to court with a former band member once.  Here's the short version:

- we form and record one album with a stand alone lead singer dude, and do a couple of tours
- with the proceeds from the tours, we go to a real nice studio and lay bed tracks for our second record
- singer dude falls in love with some chick from Texas, says he's moving there.  Assumes we'll break up the band without him.  Is surprised to find that we would prefer to carry on without him, and finish the record. 
- he goes crazy, severs all contact, and absconds with the hard drive full of all of the bed tracks.  Ironically, he is the only one who is NOT on those recordings, since we hadn't gotten to vocals yet.  So it is a lead singer stealing the rest of the bands instrumental recordings
- as he packs to move to Texas, we continue to try and make contact and get the hard drive back. It gets uglier and uglier.  Finally, we serve him with papers from small claims court
- he moves to Texas.  We never get the hard drive back. We finish the album using stereo stem tracks we're able to salvage from the studio (stereo drums, stereo guitars etc - no access to the true multitrack). It is less than it should have been, sound quality wise, because of it.
- several months pass and we have an arbitration date.  The judge works it out so that he is forced to pay back his portion of the recording costs to the band.  5 members in the band, and we got a friends and family discount... So he has to write us a cheque for $175 or something stupid .

Doesn't really sound worth it, does it?  Also, at least in Canada if you sue someone and lose, you're liable for their legal costs as well as your own.  Not sure if it is the same there, but keep it in mind.

[franksnbeans]

That guy sounds like a piece of shit.

[Danny G]

Singers.





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[VOLVO)))]

Singers.





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[taylo)))r]

What's the name of the band? Come on, tell me then I will tell you whether or not it is worth pursuing.

[RacerX]

Bubba Ho Tep.

[clockwork green]

Dramasticator or Abstratanator or Abracadabranator or something like that.

[franksnbeans]

Haha!  Dramasticator. That's a funny name.

[franksnbeans]

What's the name of the band? Come on, tell me then I will tell you whether or not it is worth pursuing.

Don't worry about the name. And what do  you know about pursuing these types of matters?

[taylo)))r]

What's the name of the band? Come on, tell me then I will tell you whether or not it is worth pursuing.

Don't worry about the name. And what do  you know about pursuing these types of matters?

Unless they are making a shitton, it's not really worth pursuing unless you have a friend or family member that is a lawyer that will do it pro-bono. At a minimum for a lawyer you are looking at $150 an hour...if you're lucky. So unless you are going to get tens of thousands of dollars from them, I wouldn't worry about it.

[RacerX]

Abstracter.

Does that mean "more abstract," or did you guys really want "Abstractor"?

[RAGER]

EXREME

[franksnbeans]

From what I understand, there is no money going to the band from the cd release other than what they sell at their live performances.  I just want to make sure that I am recognized as being the drummer on the album. 

I also understand they are now playing a new song we we wrote together that features many of my guitar riffs, but that's another story.

[taylo)))r]

From what I understand, there is no money going to the band from the cd release other than what they sell at their live performances.  I just want to make sure that I am recognized as being the drummer on the album. 

I also understand they are now playing a new song we we wrote together that features many of my guitar riffs, but that's another story.

You know, and that is all that matters. Just ask them to credit you.

[clockwork green]

We can't let Lady Gaga get away with this...those are your riffs and you deserve compensation. You should call Judge Judy.

[franksnbeans]

lady gaga and judge judy can both gag on my cock once I finish ramming their assholes.

[Metal and Beer]

LOLyer: "Hey man, I got you credit on the bands' Bandcamp page. It's under "former members" but at least it's there bro! That'll be eleventeen thousand dollars please"

[clockwork green]

lady gaga and judge judy can both gag on my cock once I finish ramming their assholes.

Uh, that escalated quickly.

[franksnbeans]

Ok. Thanks.


I'd still do lady gaga and judge judy if you can please bmail me their contact information.

[Pissy]

This seams a good place to tell this story.

When we were going through the whole name issue, we call a local entertainment/intellectual property lawyer, and he was a totally cool guy. Did a conf call with us for about an hour, told us he'd help us out with small potatoes stuff for his line of work knowing full and well we had no money -no charge, all we had to do was cover gvmnt fees. Gave some free consult and answered a few emails.

At one point I asked him if we got pushback what it might cost to have him help us fight it.

"Haha...  Um, You don't really want to know my hourly rate."

It was $900. I can only figure that he's used to representing deep pocket enterprises and big companies. Very few "people" in NC can afford a $900/hr rate for the length of time necessary to fight whatever it is that a $900/hr lawyer does well.

[Dave J]

Unfortunately for you, the United States does not recognize any rights for the performer of the music under the Copyright laws. The United States Copyright laws also do not require that an artist receive attribution or credit for his or her performance on the song.  Some countries might (I think Australia does recognize a performer's right to be attributed).

So, if you are not the author or creator of the musical composition itself, then you have no rights to the song (i.e., publishing).  Also, if you are not the owner of the sound recording itself, then you have no right to the copyright in the sound recording.  It is unclear from your original post who actually made the recording. Most often a record label owns the rights to the sound recording because it is the one that paid for it and arranged for the producers and engineers to put it together.  If you and your bandmates recorded the track in the basement, there is a possibility you could claim ownership in the sound recording.  I would need more facts to determine that.  If the record sells a million copies, I would seek out an entertainment lawyer if I were you.

Also, you could possibly have a claim for "unjust enrichment."  In other words, a person who performs on a record is usually compensated for his performance.  Studio musicians have rates for their work, and I would guess there is a standard or union rate for studio musicians.  For example, the extra musicians who play a Cello on a Nirvana song, or violin on a Guns N Roses song, they get paid for their performance.  The studio or label hires the musician, and he or she plays a part, and gets a payment.  The musician usually gets recognition, but there is no right. You could potentially argue that your should get paid for your performance. 

I know this goes a little beyond your post, but some hired musicians have also eventually claimed some ownership in the song based upon their contribution during the recording process.  For example, a hired back up singer (Clare Torry) on one of Pink Floyd's songs (I think it was the Great Gig in the Sky on Dark Side of the Moon) sued Pink Floyd for royalties because she claimed co-ownership of the song.  She gets royalties today for the song, because I think they settled.  You're a drummer, however, so you probably did not contribute anything.   

In short, the answer is "yes" you could see an entertainment lawyer, but "no" you probably should not unless the record takes off, and even then you may not have much to go on.  Even at my rates ($300), it would not be worth much unless you think the record will get wide distribution (meaning sales).

DISCLAIMER: By the way, the above does not constitute legal advice, but is some off the cuff thoughts on a topic I know a little about.  Do not place any reliance on the information above, but consult with a lawyer before taking any action as you will need to provide much more detail before anyone can fully give you advice.

[Lumpy]