Has Fender also "lost it's way?"

[Jake]

I had a discussion with a guitar shop owner about this yesterday. It (naturally) started with Gibson and their tendencies to make things like plywood guitars with robot tuners and such.

But I am unconvinced that Fender has also lost their way. The biggest gripes I could come up with is that they charge near-premium money for their imported guitars, their Custom Shop prices are downright insane, and their necks are getting on the pretty thin side. The last being a personal preference, admittedly.

So where do you land on this discussion, and why?

[RacerX]

I only wish Gibson would "lose their way" in the manner that Fender is employing.

As it is, apples & oranges. Sure, Fender is breaking a few "traditions," but not with stupid, useless shit a la Gibson.

[Mr. Foxen]

Fender has always been about manufacturing efficiency from the start. That is their way, just fuck with the balance with quality sometimes to see how it goes.

[Chovie D]

I can forgive gibson for the robot guitar and the crazy painted sg, all of it.
To me theyve always been that kind of company since the 50's (explorer, Flying V, reverse V, Maurader)

There are two things theyve done that IM less willing to forgive:
1. putting REALLY crappy guitars in Target stores, just lowers the value and esteem of  the entire brand
2. the whole tea party thing they did with their illegal wood imports, subsequent press conferences calling the president a tyrant, and eventual admission of guilt and acquiessence.

one sure fire way to get me to not like your product is to needlessly inject politics into it, exspecially if its politics I dont agree with.

quality control? what Mr. foxxen said.
But I think fender now has the edge in that area also. gibson has been horrible the past decade.

Fender has in the past truly lost their way several times. Most notably when they had the brilliant idea to produce those solid state amps with the astrological names...at the expense of thier beloved tube amps. damn near killed the company.


one could argue fender put their guitars into best buy, but those are quality guitars(vinatge vibe squiers).

the whole vintage vibe squier thing...its hard to criticize fender right now or say the've lost their way when they came out with products like that recently.

I really loved this book and cannot recommend it enough. great info on amplifiers n general , fender amplifiers, the history of the fender company...awesome eye candy to look at plenty of quotes and essays by Billy Gibbons, Keith Richards, etc.

[Lumpy]

Fender appears to be doing great as far as quality (speaking as a complete armchair quarterback). Their foreign factories seem to struggle with consistency at first, but after a few years they have their shit together. My friend just bought an Indonesian Squier Jaguar, he says it's great. I think it was $275, purchased at Sam Ash.

I think a lot of guitar building now is computer-driven when it's done on that scale (machining). Once they figure out the formula and fix the bugs, whammy.

[Discö Rice]

Fender appears to be doing great as far as quality (speaking as a complete armchair quarterback). Their foreign factories seem to struggle with consistency at first, but after a few years they have their shit together. My friend just bought an Indonesian Squier Jaguar, he says it's great. I think it was $275, purchased at Sam Ash.

I think a lot of guitar building now is computer-driven when it's done on that scale (machining). Once they figure out the formula and fix the bugs, whammy.

No complaints about any Fender I've touched in the last ten years, and they keep coming out with interesting products. Gibson is a different story.

[Chovie D]

Fender appears to be doing great as far as quality (speaking as a complete armchair quarterback). Their foreign factories seem to struggle with consistency at first, but after a few years they have their shit together. My friend just bought an Indonesian Squier Jaguar, he says it's great. I think it was $275, purchased at Sam Ash.

I think a lot of guitar building now is computer-driven when it's done on that scale (machining). Once they figure out the formula and fix the bugs, whammy.

i think (and Im also an armchair quarterback) that for fender the biggest quality variants are seen in the necks, frets and paint jobs.

For example, their mexican teles, the wine colored ones. all the frets stick out over the edge of the neck on all of those (that I have played, and I own one too) because the wood used for the neck was too green and has shrunk. Its still a great fucking guitar, cost $275 . epiphones will cost more and just not be as good often, tho there are some nice ones Iguess..Ive played a couple es335 tyle epis that iliked. but like an epi les paul is usually a peice oif shit right? it just feels and looks wrong? cant pinpoint it.
Regarding the paint they do a polyester undercoating and sometimes they just go overboard on that. it can really deaden the guitar IMHO when they get it too thick.

The machined parts arent so much of an issue, because of one, they can be swapped out if they suck and for two, they are fairly consistent, theres no warpage, over painting etc.

I like things like the the thin skin teles and even tho I hate the idea of relicing the roadworn series are great instruments! I'd love to own a "road worn" tele.
The cyber twi is neat idea tho Im not sure how the thing really truned out and know it wasnt succesful.
I love that they will resissue things like the tweed twin.

they keep releasing excellent amps too, like the pro junior or their hot rod series.



fuck it, im a fender fanboi

the tuners and especially the pickups on my mexi tele are awesome. stock. birdge, knobs , pots, no complaints.

btw, speaking of machining....they are printing a 3d printable guitar here. I will report back once Ive played it.

[Chovie D]

Fender appears to be doing great as far as quality (speaking as a complete armchair quarterback). Their foreign factories seem to struggle with consistency at first, but after a few years they have their shit together. My friend just bought an Indonesian Squier Jaguar, he says it's great. I think it was $275, purchased at Sam Ash.

I think a lot of guitar building now is computer-driven when it's done on that scale (machining). Once they figure out the formula and fix the bugs, whammy.

No complaints about any Fender I've touched in the last ten years, and they keep coming out with interesting products. Gibson is a different story.

oh sure, way to say excatly what i was trying to say but far more succinctly and eloquently. 

[clockwork green]

I would totally be a Fender guy but they just always sound bad when I play them (except their basses). I love Tele's and Jazzmaster's but they just don't sound like me like Gibson's do.

[Jor el]

Same here.

[mortlock]

ive played a fender j for decades..as much as I love the look and sound of a rick or any other bass [I consider the rick to be fenders greatest competition] there is no better bass than a fender bass.

[Jake]

I would totally be a Fender guy but they just always sound bad when I play them (except their basses). I love Tele's and Jazzmaster's but they just don't sound like me like Gibson's do.

They sound bad or just not what the tone you're chasing? I would agree that they don't sound like Gibsons. Especially off the shelf they won't.

BUT after playing this, my Gibsons sound flat and muddy. This Tele has all the "Gibson" girth PLUS a big, pronounced midrange and sparkle in the top.



I know that's not technically a Fender (see updated headstock, heheh) but you can pretty much buy a factory Tele Deluxe and get the same result.

[rayinreverse]

I would totally be a Fender guy but they just always sound bad when I play them (except their basses). I love Tele's and Jazzmaster's but they just don't sound like me like Gibson's do.

They sound bad or just not what the tone you're chasing? I would agree that they don't sound like Gibsons. Especially off the shelf they won't.

BUT after playing this, my Gibsons sound flat and muddy. This Tele has all the "Gibson" girth PLUS a big, pronounced midrange and sparkle in the top.

I agree! After I got my tele deluxe I dont really enjoy my les paul as much. The fender offers me the LP sound, but with more mid range bite, a thinner neck, and a lot less weight.

[dogfood]

Fer whatever reason that tele looks like a real go-er, know what I mean?  Dream Fender.  Big honk'n 70's headstock, witch hat knobs, humbuckers.  I've never been a Fender guy, strats, jazzmasters, twangkings, etc.  I dig the jazz/Les Paul the guitar player/gold top/americana turned heavy thing going on with Lesters.  But that being said I ain't no idiot when it comes to a good guitar and that Tele looks like it could fill the bill.  Q-Has Fender lost it's way?  A-I don't think they have.  With all the different factories building shit loads of names all cnc machined (not like in the 60's when Cort was pedalling shit) Fender still has market share, a certain amount of direction, and identity.  Have they ever been top of the heap?  They have never been the master craftmanship fiddle.  Sure they will diversify their product line from time to time when the market forces them to, but they have a solid line up.  I think the 80's fucked with them more than the 2010's.  Remember when every floyd rose wanking modern strat was the big thing?  Charvel, Kramer, Jackson, Hamer, Ibanez, Westone, etc. jeez Fender couldn't get a break.  Scalloped fretboards!

[mortlock]

my bass..a vintage series reish of a 62 fender jazz bass purchased new in 1992 w/ a 1972 tele bass pup installed in 2011.

[clockwork green]

I would totally be a Fender guy but they just always sound bad when I play them (except their basses). I love Tele's and Jazzmaster's but they just don't sound like me like Gibson's do.

They sound bad or just not what the tone you're chasing? I would agree that they don't sound like Gibsons. Especially off the shelf they won't.

BUT after playing this, my Gibsons sound flat and muddy. This Tele has all the "Gibson" girth PLUS a big, pronounced midrange and sparkle in the top.



I know that's not technically a Fender (see updated headstock, heheh) but you can pretty much buy a factory Tele Deluxe and get the same result.

I make them sound bad. Plenty of other people get great tones out of them although most of my favorite tones from other people also come from Gibson and Gibson-style guitars. Muddy depends a lot on what you're pairing with them. I don't find my tone muddy with a Gibby but that's maybe why my tone with the same gear is thin and strident with most Fenders.

[jibberish]

if someone took the time to set up a low end schecter with string thru, it would sound awesome too.
they are bright sustain machines like teles.
except no one ever looks at schecters. they are built way better than either fenders or gibsons...like hagstroms and PRS.

[fallen]

Brands matter but i think factories and skilled craftspeople matter more. I have a couple of South Korean made guitars and they both play amazingly well. The Chinese stuff I've tried either Fender or Epiphone all seem to have that terrible dried out feel, sharp fret ends, etc.

Some brands really drop the ball on what pickups they spec on cheaper guitars and I think Gibson/Epiphone fall into this camp. I don't know if Fender have done the same thing. Maybe its time for companies to offer unloaded guitars with no pickups at all, kind of like high end bicycles don't come with pedals because they know everyone will just throw the stock ones in the garbage anyway.

Oh yeah. That silver burst Tele is awesome. I've been shopping for a big headstock, dual humbucker, Tele for a while. Probably black rather than silver burst but still.

[jibberish]

wait a second. so who was mocking out my blacktop tele with the humbuckers in it???

regardless, i'm feeling much better with all this humbucker+tele buzz going on here haha

edit: jake, when I find THEE perfect bridge/tail cover for my tele, I will get 2 and send you one.  if you find the perfect tail cover before I do, please send me one.

edits: I have to admit. every day that goes by , I am becoming more and more of a hagstrom fanboi. 
BUT AN ULTRA SWEDE IS NOT A LP. but it is close enough so that it will replace the LP with all its other advantages except when I need the LP sound.    ps, tune normal and use normal strings and LP's are plenty bright. also, my LP sounds way better with direct wired pickups vs the combo stock kludge. like the pup selector is a really useless piece of hum antenna.
2 pickups combined in one jack is an electrical compromise.  if anyone has a single pup LP that just seems to sound better, I agree.

[neighbor664]

To answer the OP,...... definitely not. The only complaint I have is that there are too many models, Gibson does this too. Stick to a few core models and do them well.

[RacerX]

my bass..a vintage series reish of a 62 fender jazz bass purchased new in 1992 w/ a 1972 tele bass pup installed in 2011.

That is one of the ugliest looking basses I've seen in awhile. You been playing her with drumsticks?

[Jor el]

G&L

[VOLVO)))]

Alright. I need a tele deluxe now.

[Chovie D]

my guitars:
72 sg with Lollars
83 explorer stock gibson humbuckers
79 strat dimarzio double coil in back position
2006 mexi tele-stock
eastwood baritone sidejack with lollar p-90's

I play the mexi tele more than any other and I like its pickup the best.
That cheap ass tele pckup drives my amps harder nad has that snap.
my gibsons kinda sound ..i dunno not bright enough?

Ive grown used to a dependent on that tele spank.

[Mr. Foxen]

like the pup selector is a really useless piece of hum antenna.

Part of the problem there is Gibson forgot how shielding works. For a 7 year period (tracked by tech working at Gibson dealership) they stopped connecting the screens on some wires to ground. Plus they dropped the metal box that screened the cavity down to a plate which didn't, but did nothing else to screen the cavity.