Reel to Reel Recording

[Ombrenuit]

So I inherited an reel to reel in mint condition from a relative (think it was used a total of one hour and then put back in the box). My band wants to record a doom ep with it.

Anyone with experience recording on these? And as someone who has only ever recorded on a DAW what accessories do we need?

We plan to pick up some rhythm mics. A friend said they could supply a few tube preamps. Not sure what else we need to make the most of this.

[justinhedrick]

So I inherited an reel to reel in mint condition from a relative (think it was used a total of one hour and then put back in the box). My band wants to record a doom ep with it.

Anyone with experience recording on these? And as someone who has only ever recorded on a DAW what accessories do we need?

We plan to pick up some rhythm mics. A friend said they could supply a few tube preamps. Not sure what else we need to make the most of this.

what model is it? how many tracks?

[Ombrenuit]

Sony TC252 stereo recorder from '73. "Four track stereo and mono." Reel size is max 7".

[justinhedrick]

Sony TC252 stereo recorder from '73. "Four track stereo and mono." Reel size is max 7".

I just googled it and it seems like a budget, entry level reel to reel back in the day. It would be like recording your band on a hand held casette deck today.

It would probably sound cool to mix down to then back into some sort of digital world, but that is it.

[Ombrenuit]

Bummer. I'll try it out and see how it sounds. The mix down option might be good. If makes our stuff sound better at no extra cost I can't complain!

[lordfinesse]

I have one of those Sony TC 2-track decks. It's low end consumer stuff for sure, but sometimes fun to play with. I've recorded a few things with it, but it was pretty noisy. Tracking a whole song on it (or one like it) would be .. interesting. I'd like to hear the end result if you decide to do it though.

[Ombrenuit]

I'll post results if it sounds any good.

[Chovie D]

Try recording individual tracks with it...see if you can get a good guitar sound or drum sound from the tape...
if you CAN, record some shit with it and dump it into a DAW for editing.

[liquidsmoke]

It's probably a lot better sounding than a cassette 4 track, give it a go!

[jibberish]

it will have way more headroom than a cassette due to the greater width of tape going by the head=more magnetic particles per second to hold sound info.

run it at its fastest speed for highest fidelity(freq resp+headroom)=moar particles per second

the noise floor(not the tape hiss), THD,IM, etc is all a function of the machine itself and that is what may make or break using it if it just sounds too nasty lo-fi

if mono actually mono's up 2 of the stereo tracks, by all means use mono. here again, you are putting 2x the tape area under the record head per second by using both stereo tracks at once.  

if they merely turn off the right channel or w/e "IEEE KEEECK DEM EEEN DEEE BALLS"

edit: the faster the speed, the higher the frequency can be defined in the particles. the particles are a finite graded size and just like the sampling freq in digital, starts aliasing when the freq is >1/2 the sample rate, and it just isn't fast enough to define the waveshape. in the day , when you heard about 15ips or I think maybe even like 30ips the freq response was way up in the 20's and all the headroom you could abuse.

width is like bigger data word size and can define a greater dynamic range, so wider and faster is always better except for the blowing thru tape really fast factor. hence you heard about 1" or wider tape in studios too.

[Ombrenuit]

Tested it out. Signal to noise was fine. No discernible hiss at listening volumes. I think it's quite doable for recordings and not at all like a handheld cassette deck. Very retro sound to it.

Thanks for the tips Jib. Still not sure if we'll be able to make this work but I'll be sure to try it out.

[jibberish]

My pleasure, I think you are good to go.

this would be your "pure analog converter filter thing". you could record and upload track by track.
"upload"=play tape deck recording into audio interface or soundcard to digitally record for multi-track assembly in the DAW

ALSO, on the flip side, try mixing down your final mix onto that in stereo mode. Here's why I would try that

I learned quickly, mixdown in a 16bit environment sucks. shit gets lost in the haze. nowhere near enough resolution for all that complex combination of waveforms. when I first tried reaper years ago, it mixed down sounding really really clean.
I found audacity couldn't work with 24bit files back when reaper didn't have wave editing. AHA!!24bits=higher resolution. no wonder this sounds like a dream, even with 12 channels being mixed down or w/e big number of tracks.

and listening to a good sounding mix isn't what would be represented in the final digital mixdown anyway. we are listening to the digital mixer. those are what64bit? 128bit? doesn't matter once it is converted back to analog. the speaker plays everything too.  the digital doesn't capture everything though unless it was a bit resolution file that matchd the mixer's

well, tape, what I first played with, doesn't have those problems. that shit picks up everything. PLUS the huge headroom AND even if you cross +0dB, tape doesn't puke like digital, it gets ugly much more slowly, and a little saturation =ghetto compressor, like overdriven tubes. we are looking for the added distortion sonic elements.

once the tape has captured the entire mixdown correctly then convert that to your final digital stereo file for much less digital compromising what the true sound combination is

at least that is the idea on paper lol. I would try that thing in all kinds of places alomg the recording chain just to see.

watch for reels of tape too. those aren't in every drug store in america

[spookstrickland]

If you can mic everything up and play your entire song live, it will sound great.  Get a good old board with transformers and it will sound even thicker.

[AgentofOblivion]

It would be interesting if you could make two recordings:  1)  Mic in front of cab going into DAW.  2)  Mic in front of cab going to reel-to-reel, and then digitize that mix down using the same settings as before in your DAW.  That way you (and we!) can hear the effect of using the R2R.

[Ombrenuit]

Salem's Pot used a r2r for a live recording of "Watch me Kill You" to interesting results. The recording has some analog noise but it's hazy enough to provide a good atmosphere. Not sure if this sony is up for the challenge though and Reels are prohibitively expensive on eBay unless you are willing to use prerecorded tape.

While I have a mystery box of reels, I have not sorted through which are recorded on / which are blank. Also, the pinch roller seems to not be catching the tape right. I already ruined one of my mother's old reels trying to get it to work. Seems that I have to apply the pinch roller gradually to keep tape from flying everywhere.

[jibberish]

old rubber dies. that pinch roller probably has a dead/flat/hard shiny spot.  try to replace it. lots of that shit online.

you will get wow and flutter as that thing slips and grabs and slightly changes speed due to the irregularly contoured surface

...or use it as a paper weight.  potential lo-fi machine issue deal breaker.

[bluesprojection]

Dude, try to find an Otari MK 3 half inch 8 track reel to reel. Then record all your drum and bass tracks on that, then use high quality A/D converters and dump it into a good protools rig. Finish you tracks in protools, guitar, vocals, etc... I did this for years, your recordings will sound great. Don't try to mix your record by yourself. Get a professional engineer to help make a final mix and do the mastering. Most of the time an outside ear of a professional will help make your record sound much better.

[Ombrenuit]

@blues: good idea. Any chance you can post your results? How much does professional mixing / mastering cost these days?