A/B setup with a bass VI

[aowron]

After the previous band getting split up (one member died, another decided to move away) me and the other member left are considering continuing as a two-piece. Since I have both a Bass amp + cab and a guitar amp + cab, I'm thinking of getting a Bass VI (or an Agile Bass VI copy; the Agile Argus 630) and running it through some kind of split-signal set up (A/B box?).

So what I'm wondering is: will the guitar cab be able to sustain the low end considering that there's a guitar amp in front of it? (which I assume will filter the low end)

Another alternative could be to run the bass cab with the guitar head, though I'm afraid that I might get less bottom- and top-end.

Also, anyone have schematics (or even better, a veroboard layout) for some kind of A/B box?

I guess it might be helpful to list the gear I will use:
Ashdown 330 Spider + JCM 800 bass 2x15 cab
Laney GH50L + 4x12 loaded with (2010ish) V30:s

[Mr. Foxen]

If you have a bass rig running at the same time you can cut all of the bottom out of the guitar rig, like all of it, so it sounds thin and shitty alone, and it will work pretty well. Playing bass into a guitar rig is pretty much fine as lon as you expect it to sound like guitar, and don't try and eq in sounding like a bass. Bassy guitar instead of bass tends to sound lame, so probably best going for a bass rig, you can go tiny and lame on accompanying guitar rig, since it needs to bottom and thus no power.

[aowron]

If you have a bass rig running at the same time you can cut all of the bottom out of the guitar rig, like all of it, so it sounds thin and shitty alone, and it will work pretty well. Playing bass into a guitar rig is pretty much fine as lon as you expect it to sound like guitar, and don't try and eq in sounding like a bass. Bassy guitar instead of bass tends to sound lame, so probably best going for a bass rig, you can go tiny and lame on accompanying guitar rig, since it needs to bottom and thus no power.

That was basically what I had in mind; since I already have the bass rig providing the bass sounds, the guitar rig is more for the top end. The idea was to have it make the Bass VI (well, will probably get a copy) sound like a guitar. So the cones won't take any damage from such a setup then?

Also, since my wah is a guitar wah, will it still work for such a setup (assuming the wah is plugged in to the guitar rig), or should I get a bass wah instead?

[Mr. Foxen]

Cones will take damage from abuse, they make abused noises when you abuse them, guitar or bass doesn't really figure into it, just listening. don't try and push lows from the guitar rig, which will likely result in less bass anyway, is going to keep the speakers happy. Wah voicing is totally a taste call.

[Lumpy]

Guitar speakers don't usually like a lot of low bass going through them. If you have a bass cab, you can use your guitar head to drive it. But vice-versa, don't run your bass sounds through guitar speakers, you might be flirting with disaster if you play loud. It will be hard on your speakers, anyway.

[fallen]

The secret of Eagle Twin.

Guitar is wired so that the pickups are wired to separate jacks like a Rick. The signals go separately to a guitar amp and bass amp with a phase box to make sure that all speakers push in sync. That's "the secret" apparently, the phase box.

[Mr. Foxen]

The secret of Eagle Twin.

Guitar is wired so that the pickups are wired to separate jacks like a Rick. The signals go separately to a guitar amp and bass amp with a phase box to make sure that all speakers push in sync. That's "the secret" apparently, the phase box.

Phase box can only help much in the lows, since its non identical signals, easier just not having two sources of lows. Ricks have the bass cut cap on the bridge pickup for that purpose.

[fallen]

If a note is coming from the same string/guitar then the waveform of a note will have matching peaks and valleys. You can choose for those peaks to either match or be opposite each other. (or 45 degrees out of phase or 90 degrees or whatever).

The phase box is what some people do because they are trying to get a full frequency response from all of their amps. Of course the other solution of just building a crossover with all the high freq going to a guitar amp and all the lows going to a bass amp will work well.

If you want to use a bass a Marshall JCM800 on bass does sound really good and will leave enough of the low frequency alone so you don't have to worry about cancellation. Or get a cheap JCM900. Those are fizzy and will work to add some highs if the bass rig is your main source of tone.

Yet another option is guitar and guitar rig with a Boss OC-3 sending an octave down bass signal off to a separate amp. It would be fun to try that out.

[Mr. Foxen]

If a note is coming from the same string/guitar then the waveform of a note will have matching peaks and valleys. You can choose for those peaks to either match or be opposite each other. (or 45 degrees out of phase or 90 degrees or whatever).

Except if they come from different pickups, when they won't, which is why the pickups in a guitar sound different to each other. There will be frequencies that are out of phase, and others that are in phase when both are used. A box can't put everything in phase, or out of phase, it can only glip the polarity which will change which frequencies are in and which are out.

[fallen]

This is one of those forum conversations where someone just disagrees for the sake of being disagreeable. It's no help to the OP so I'm out.

If pickups can't be out of phase it's news to me. Learn something new every day I guess.

[VOLVO)))]

If a note is coming from the same string/guitar then the waveform of a note will have matching peaks and valleys. You can choose for those peaks to either match or be opposite each other. (or 45 degrees out of phase or 90 degrees or whatever).

Except if they come from different pickups, when they won't, which is why the pickups in a guitar sound different to each other. There will be frequencies that are out of phase, and others that are in phase when both are used. A box can't put everything in phase, or out of phase, it can only glip the polarity which will change which frequencies are in and which are out.

Pickups in guitars sound different due to placement, phasing is a miniscule factor. While I usually agree witn you, I think that argument is coming from your lower body, particularly your rectum.

[Corey Y]

I think when fallen says "out of phase" he means opposite polarity, as in wired opposite. I wouldn't really be sweating minor phase discrepancy between pickups because they're several inches apart, I'd only worry about it being 180 out of phase due to wiring issues (like when you get one weird pedal in a biamped right or wire one speaker in a cab incorrectly). If anyone is worried about tiny variations in phase when combining pickups, humbuckers are right out the window...that's their whole sound.

[Mr. Foxen]

Point being, its a non-issue aside from in the low end, if you are using dual rigs from separate pickups, they won't have phase issues that can be fixed with a polarity box anywhere else. Don't have lows from both rigs, and there is no problem there, and there is no advantage to having lows from both rigs.

[fallen]

I think when fallen says "out of phase" he means opposite polarity, as in wired opposite. I wouldn't really be sweating minor phase discrepancy between pickups because they're several inches apart, I'd only worry about it being 180 out of phase due to wiring issues (like when you get one weird pedal in a biamped right or wire one speaker in a cab incorrectly). If anyone is worried about tiny variations in phase when combining pickups, humbuckers are right out the window...that's their whole sound.

Misuse of terminology is often the cause of misunderstandings. I'm probably using the wrong terminology. Also quoting what someone else does in their rig with multiple amps and not my own setup.

Personally since I would want to keep playing guitar I would go with a low pass signal through a polyphonic octave down into a bass amp. Set to start coming in on just the lowest string. I've also tried this with a midi guitar creating a synth bass off the lowest string only but that's a lot more extra gear.

[Lumpy]

This topic is also discussed in a thread about Dark Castle, do a search for that (to OP)

[jibberish]

If a note is coming from the same string/guitar then the waveform of a note will have matching peaks and valleys. You can choose for those peaks to either match or be opposite each other. (or 45 degrees out of phase or 90 degrees or whatever).

The phase box is what some people do because they are trying to get a full frequency response from all of their amps. Of course the other solution of just building a crossover with all the high freq going to a guitar amp and all the lows going to a bass amp will work well.

If you want to use a bass a Marshall JCM800 on bass does sound really good and will leave enough of the low frequency alone so you don't have to worry about cancellation. Or get a cheap JCM900. Those are fizzy and will work to add some highs if the bass rig is your main source of tone.

Yet another option is guitar and guitar rig with a Boss OC-3 sending an octave down bass signal off to a separate amp. It would be fun to try that out.

I was reading in an issue of mix magazine about phase boxes since I have been looking into DI+buffer splitters and mic'd amps. these guys were talking about using the phase box to offset the time delay to the mic from th speaker which was fucking up the overall sound when the mic signal got mixed with the slightly leading di signal down the pipe.  fyi, fwiw, byob, wysiwyg