Open string vs fretted 5th (or whatever is equivalent to open string)

[zachoff]

Saw a quote from Phil Lesh (Grateful Dead bassist for those that might not know) saying "You better have a damn good reason to play an open string." - Why is that?  I pretty much always play open strings if I can because it sounds more full to me.  What's the thinking behind this quote?  Read it in last month's Bass Player, btw... Tom Petty's bass player said that was some of the best advice he'd ever gotten.  Anyway, just wondering if any of you know why.

[Mr. Foxen]

Too stoned to have good muting discipline.

[Lumpy]

I wouldn't fret over it (see what I did there?).

Too stoned to have good muting discipline.

Yeah, open string is a little bit out of control, or maybe I should say, it can run away from you. In some music it's called for, maybe not in the Dead's music.

Everybody's got their own dumb rules, so whatever. Some guys say you must fret your notes using your fingertips (not the fatty finger pad) when it doesn't make a damn bit of difference (the fret wire creates the note, whether you press down with your thumb or pinky tip).

[Chovie D]

No finger vibrato and no fret hand damping on open strings.
But honestly Ive never heard of this advice before.

[bitter]

No one from the dead has/had any business/authority telling anybody else what they "should" be doing. Fucking Hippies.

[mutantcolors]

I play every open note I get the chance for.


...or power chord at the 10th + fret. Because fuck yeah.

[Lumpy]

No finger vibrato and no fret hand damping on open strings.
But honestly Ive never heard of this advice before.

It's bass player talk.

[liquidsmoke]

Yeah, open string is a little bit out of control, or maybe I should say, it can run away from you.

Hmmmm... for tone- finger > fret
More fat, tighter, and controlled sounding. That's probably what he means.

I tune in B standard and that low B string fifth fret sounds heavier than the E open for sure. The E open has it's own appeal though.

[giantchris]

I vehemently disagree with this advice.  I also play an MTD so I have a zero fret on my open strings so they aren't as noticably different from the fretted notes.  I still disagree with this advice though you can integrate the fuller sounding open strings into your lines to emphasize parts all part of being a complete player.

[Lumpy]

Does Phil Lesh play fretless bass? I have the impression he is always puttering up and and down the neck, not really doing much of anything to color the music, yet at the same time he's seeming to be busy. None of his individual notes really stick out (let alone any of his basslines)

I wasn't advocating against open strings, just relaying the opposing rationale as I understand it. Everybody can come up with their own dumb rules.

I didn't use much open strings for a while, and lately I'm trying to do more of it. Like, you can do some cool stuff by playing an open string and then hammering on a note from there (fifths and octaves are obvious choices, but doing that with other notes in a bassline can be startlingly cool.) Use the whole neck, including open strings. I play bass with my fingers, so damping strings couldn't be easier. And I don't mind if certain notes pop more than others, I need all the help I can get

[liquidsmoke]

I don't know that Phil has ever played a fretless. Personally I think he's amazing and was perfect in the Dead because he often played a lead style which contributed greatly to their massively layered sound.

Thinking about that quote from him some more, it's pretty silly but he joined the band on bass with zero bass playing experience so he probably has even stranger thoughts about the instrument. Not that they were writing way out there '68 like material from the get go but still.

[spookstrickland]

Makes sense to me, those old school bass players always had a less "Sustained" Open strings ring on for ever it seems.

[VOLVO)))]

He would lose his shit watching Reeder play bass.

[Chovie D]

No finger vibrato and no fret hand damping on open strings.
But honestly Ive never heard of this advice before.

It's bass player talk.

yes, bass players (hopefully) use finger virbato and fret hand damping. alot of guitar and bass technique is similar, all fretted stringed instruments really, nature of that beast.

Lets say you're playing a simple driving bass line. AC/DC The Jack. Youre spending alot of time hitting A..bump bump bump bump bump etc.
Fretted you can control the decay of those notes with left hand damping  by just pressing down for the note duration only, and can add vibrato to the last note or bend it up  slightly when changing to the 4 chord if you desire.
Open youre reduced to muting with your pick hand or palm. less control

more control is the only real reason i can think of...hand positioning up high maybe?

I never did like the dead.Only recently did I gain respect for them as musicians. mainly Garcia.
I dont understand Phil Lesh's bass playing. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt because I didnt understand garcias guitar playing for the longest time either (and still  dont really care for it,but do respect it now). To me Lesh is kind of a jazz guy..not a backbone groove type guy. My preference for bass is for it to have some kind of groove...even geddy lee has groove(sometimes).

IM playing with a somewhat "busy" and intricate rock bass player right now...its been very interesting. Ive enjoyed hearing the extras he throws in., almost like guitar leads, but the groove is never lost. Ive grown to really respect this guys playing.

[RacerX]

True story: During an early acid trip, the Nut on Phil's bass took the form of a Demon & spake at him: "Verily, if ye ply the open note on any string more than once, thine tiny penis will melt into a puddle at thy feet, nevair to return."

[liquidsmoke]

True story: During an early acid trip, the Nut on Phil's bass took the form of a Demon & spake at him: "Verily, if ye ply the open note on any string more than once, thine tiny penis will melt into a puddle at thy feet, nevair to return."

lol

Very possible.

[Danny G]

Yeah on bass I prefer fretted notes to open strings.

Aforementioned string-dampening control, and just sounds fatter.


Sent from a can on some string using Tapatalk

[RacerX]

Bass & guitar are kinda different even though they are stringed instruments. I find it interesting that (IMO, at least) on a guitar, chords such as the open E, A, & such generally sound better than elsewhere on the neck.

[Danny G]

^^^

This.

I too prefer the sound of the open chord rather than the 2 note power chord for many standard chords.

[Chovie D]

^^^

This.

I too prefer the sound of the open chord rather than the 2 note power chord for many standard chords.

but it works the same on the bass, for me at least. I play two note chords on the bass quite a bit, powerchords.
The open powerchords sound better, than barred ones even on bass.

*off topic. To me the abosulte best sounding chord is the D chord using the open string on guitar. not sure why, but to me it is the most pleasing and full sounding of all major chords. anyone else feel this as well?

[RacerX]

If the low E string is dropped to D, I'd agree. Otherwise, open E sounds "fuller" to me because of the bass note being the root of the inversion.

[Lumpy]

He would lose his shit watching Reeder play bass.

With Rickenbacker bass, open strings sound nice! Super bouncy. When I was a teenager, the local rock band dude played Rush covers with a Rick bass, lots of open A if I remember. It also works for stuff like Van Halen, or pounding rock that cruises along on one note.

I wonder if some of the 'rules' are for the newer players, like things to beware of. Once you can play pretty well, who cares. Some good advice I got during my first and only bass lesson (from my friend who sold me my bass) -- as long as you hit all the notes (no flubs) it doesn't matter how you did it.

[Chovie D]

riding bassline-open string (deep purples smoke on the water, tons of ac/dc)
muted or damped bassline-fretted (any blues tune)
jazzbo-ing around like phil lesh?-fretted.

thats my rundown. as you said , we dont even think of this stuff when were playing , we just do eeet.

[bbottom]

riding bassline-open string (deep purples smoke on the water, tons of ac/dc)
muted or damped bassline-fretted (any blues tune)
jazzbo-ing around like phil lesh?-fretted.

thats my rundown. as you said , we dont even think of this stuff when were playing , we just do eeet.

As a fellow bass player I find that the only time that I use open strings is to really accent something. Most of the time I fret everything

[Barnhard]

There's nothing like kicking on 2 fuzz pedals and riding your low B string for 2 hours. Hell, most Doom bands have built their careers on that.