The Jam Room Blog Thread.

[liquidsmoke]

I think I'm going to have to return the TH30. I've got about a week left on my return policy and as much as I like the sound, it just isn't very powerful and it didn't cut at all when I jammed with friends last week. It's a shame, because I can't really afford to upgrade to a higher wattage version of the same amp. I guess back to the drawing board, looking at 100w modern-sounding amps. I missed the chance to get that Peavey JSX because I opted for the TH30 at about a $300 higher pricepoint. Bummer.

XXX?

[VOLVO)))]

Look for an Ultra+

[JemDooM]

Thanks again for all your time the last couple of days jibbs, I was able to go to the fest not worried at all for a change, I took my bass cab to play but it turned out the one hired for the fest wasn't working and I lent mine for the whole two days, that meant John had to use my cab and I used the two peavy 412's (paralleled), it sounded huge! What technically is the difference between coming through one 8ohm 500w bass cab or two 16ohm 300w guitar cabs? (With 450w SS bass head) it sounded different tho I couldn't say in what way other than it seemed to push more air as you guys say, it did also seem a little brighter and softer than what I'm used to, the stack was a few inches up on a platform and the extra height of that and it being a stack seems to make a huge difference...

[jibberish]

jumz, I am just glad the gig went well. I was worried I would confuse you and fuck everything up.

this is one of those times where it would be cool to actually have been there to hear and see exactly wtf was happening. that would make things much easier to sort out the gear.

all I know is that more speakers up higher sound bigger than less speakers near the ground. I think the rest is all the details: what speakers, what cab design, what combo of stuff got used together, and all the other sound/tone variables.

I am just relieved you had a good gig...

[liquidsmoke]

What technically is the difference between coming through one 8ohm 500w bass cab or two 16ohm 300w guitar cabs? (With 450w SS bass head) it sounded different tho I couldn't say in what way other than it seemed to push more air as you guys say, it did also seem a little brighter and softer than what I'm used to, the stack was a few inches up on a platform and the extra height of that and it being a stack seems to make a huge difference...

Your amp probably would put out something like 300-350 watts into one 8ohm 500 watt cab and the same amount of power into two 16ohm guitar cabs because that would also be an 8 ohm load. It sounding brighter makes sense because guitar speakers in my experience sound a lot brighter than bass cab speakers. Did it also sound less bassy?

[tombhex]

XXX?

I like the XXX a lot, but I have a few friends who've owned them and had reliability issues with them.

Look for an Ultra+

I like the Ultras a lot, I just haven't come across one recently. I need to cool my jets and maybe take a composition or songwriting class while i polish up a bit. Bit off a bit more than I could chew with a recent project and think I need to get back to basics a bit. Anybody have any online resources for lessons that they have experience with that they'd like to recommend?

[jibberish]

the amount of lessons and guitar learning resources online is overwhelming. I love it.
you can get any style lessons, certain artists pet tricks, signature riffs, powertab for any song.

[tombhex]

the amount of lessons and guitar learning resources online is overwhelming. I love it.
you can get any style lessons, certain artists pet tricks, signature riffs, powertab for any song.

Oh, I know. The overwhelming part is the bit that gives me anxiety just trying to find something good, haha! I'm just wondering if anyone has any specific lessons (like Corey Hunter's youtube stuff) that they liked or thought they learned a lot from - specifically regarding composition and songwriting.

[jibberish]

i see. ya i was referring to all technique stuff. maybe you can sneak up on the topic by looking up like "writing a punk song" and get one genre perspective, or how to write folk tune, etc.  maybe take a free MIT music theory college class. music theory will whip you into shape. that is a huge topic oh boy.

[mortlock]

jib..

im really trying here. i hate this shit. ok..so got my head. 250 watts into 4 ohms. my 4x10 is 8 ohms and rated for 200 watts. so basically as it stands im getting approx 125 watts out of it. got that. now if i add another 4x10 rated at 8 ohms, im now getting the full 250 watts. is that 250 to each cab or 125 to each cab?? and what if the new cab is rated at 500 watts?? does it matter?? i heard over powering a cab is better than under powering.

i found a cab i feel like i might buy..4x10/8 ohm/500 watts.

will that work with my current set up??   

please keep it as simple as possible. i already have a headache..thanks in advance

[jibberish]

jib..

im really trying here. i hate this shit. ok..so got my head. 250 watts into 4 ohms. my 4x10 is 8 ohms and rated for 200 watts. so basically as it stands im getting approx 125 watts out of it. got that. now if i add another 4x10 rated at 8 ohms, im now getting the full 250 watts. is that 250 to each cab or 125 to each cab?? and what if the new cab is rated at 500 watts?? does it matter?? i heard over powering a cab is better than under powering.

i found a cab i feel like i might buy..4x10/8 ohm/500 watts.

will that work with my current set up??   

please keep it as simple as possible. i already have a headache..thanks in advance

freak on a leash at your service.

first off: direct answer:  yes you can do this safely with no damage risk due to amp-speaker matching issues
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if you want to dig deeper after the advils kick in:


I will try to hit one item at a time:

1) total amp power is your total power no matter what.   so you have max 250  into 4ohms of resistance total, regardless of how it is spread out through the speakers.   the final total through ALL speakers adds up to 250.
if you have 2 parallel 8 ohm cabs which the amp sees the combo as total  of 4 ohms, it will put 250 watts worth of electrons down the pipe. just like a splitter on a faucet for 2 hoses. each hose gets half the water, and with 2 hoses going(lower resistance) easier to flow more water volume(watts)

2) the ohms is resistance or impeding the flow of current. higher resistance means harder to get electrons through there, so your amp makes less power at 8ohms vs 4ohms.
cant go below 4 ohms or you burn up your amp because you let out all the horses too fast.
you are correct in estimating lesser watts like 125-175 for 8 ohm output if amp does 250 into 4ohms

3) put it all together:   each 8 ohm cab shows the amp the same resistance and lets the amp push the same amount of juice down each cab path. 50/50. so each cab gets 125 of those 250total watts

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3) if cabinet watts is more than amp watts, amp cannot put enough energy(watts) into the cab to overheat the speakers. cab watts>>amp watts = very safe for speakers

4) I don't know about the tone. a 100w amp driving 1000w speakers never will really open them up like they can be opened up, BUT let's say we tried this. how does that sound vs a 100w cab played near max volume?  you can use any cab with rating higher than amp safely, but how loud and how does it sound?

5) lets put this part together :  both the 200w and 500w 4x10's will be safe with each getting only 125w.   

does your iPhone have an SPL meter app? you may want to measure efficiency of those 2 cabs. I always assume that a lower watt cab gets louder at that wattage than a higher power handling speaker also at that wattage, but that depends upon the drivers. have to actually check it out and see. look for efficiency specs maybe like "97db@1 watt 1meter 1khz" or some such deal.

[Omlet]

Today I'll meet the guy who wants to play some stoner doom. I'm curious if we can do it - he's 20 and I'm ten years older

[liquidsmoke]

so got my head. 250 watts into 4 ohms. my 4x10 is 8 ohms and rated for 200 watts. so basically as it stands im getting approx 125 watts out of it. got that. now if i add another 4x10 rated at 8 ohms, im now getting the full 250 watts. is that 250 to each cab or 125 to each cab??

125 to each at full RMS watts just before clipping.

and what if the new cab is rated at 500 watts?? does it matter?? i heard over powering a cab is better than under powering.

Still 125. Over powering a cab can result in speaker destruction. I would never do this but some people do and have no problems.

i found a cab i feel like i might buy..4x10/8 ohm/500 watts.

will that work with my current set up??

Will work because it's also 8 ohms. 250 watts into two 4x10s should be pretty loud although in the future you could replace the 200 watt cab with a 500 and also get a more powerful amp for even more volume. Loud low end takes a lot of power.

[mortlock]

thank you both, final question.. can you buy me the cab.. thanks in advance..

[RacerX]

I hope your hernia explodes, mort.

[jibberish]

I hope your hernia explodes, mort.

AHEM!!!!

general = bombastic
jam room = play nice

[RacerX]

Sorry, forgot the  .

[mortlock]

am I a total idiot for going into hernia surgery while shopping for extra bass cabs..

[khoomeizhi]

if you plan on frequent gigging and no one in the band is willing to be your bitch? maybe. you could hire a buddy to move your shit?

[Omlet]

Yesterday I've met the bassist. Cool dude, despite the age difference. We'll jam on mon/tue to see if we can make it.

[AgentofOblivion]

When I bought my house I dedicated the front room to be a lounge/record room.  The idea was to have a place with no TV to hang out and either chat with company or just enjoy music.  Naturally I wanted to have a pretty kickass sound system so I bought some decent speakers/stands, a subwoofer and a nice marantz stereo amp. 

Yesterday I really paid attention to the bass and sat in different chairs and was blown away by how obvious the bass interference from reflections is.  I've definitely thought the bass was too loud or too quiet and couldn't seem to get it right before, but never did I realize that it was so dependent on where I was sitting.  If I sat in one chair then the lower end of the guitar or upper end of the bass was overpowering and made stuff sound a little muddy.  If I moved to the chair 2-3 foot to the right then that frequency was OK but the "oomph" on the kick drum was unbearably loud.  Other parts of the room had way too much of the sub-bass. 

So the lesson learned is that I really need to treat the room if I want to improve the quality.  Unfortunately the geometry of the room is far less than ideal.  For instance, the logical place geometrically to install diffusers on the wall for reflections from the side end up being on the doorway and the fireplace.  I'm considering making bass trap wedges for the corners of the room but I don't want it to look stupid.  It's frustrating all the shit you have to do to get good, even sound. 

[RacerX]

Dude, you're building a garage, right? Build you a custom music room in that fucker, instead. I'm sure you can figure out a new use for the "old" music room...

[everdrone]

I wouldnt worry about the bass traps.  the bass is gonna sound different in different spots in the room.  no matter if you have bass traps or not.


bass traps are really for mixing, so that you get a more even neutral setting when you are mixing, and the subwoofer for mixing needs to be placed in a certain spot in reference to where you sit when you are mixing.  I have a toggle switch and turn my subwoofer on and off when mixing.


check this out:

http://www.recordingreview.com/blog/recording-equipment-reviews/do-i-really-need-a-subwoofer-for-my-studio-monitors/

[Omlet]

Has anyone played doomy music on Fender Coronado Bass? Is it any good?

[liquidsmoke]

If you were playing F tuned bass for Bongripper or a 5 string in a reggae band you'd want speakers with at least 3 or 4mm of travel right?

Reading about Xmax and what not.