What makes a "stoner/doom" amp?

SoupKitchen · June 11, 2012, 08:08:13 PM

So in another thread, the Hovercraft was recommended and described as a "20W stoner doom machine built from a used Jet City". What exactly does this mean? I know lots of folks like the Baxandall tone stack/FAC switch setup based on Oranges and Matamps, but why is this the preferred setup? Model Ts are based on Marshall/tweed Bassmans, no Bax or FAC (I guess one of the versions of the T had a Bax and an active mid section), lots of folks play Ampegs, Bassman heads, Marshall 2203/2204, Laney Supergroup/Klipp/AOR, Soldano, Peavey solid state, etc. I guess my question is: what makes that topology the archetype for heavy music, when so many people use other amps? Am I missing something?

I understand Sunn Model Ts were loud and affordable, along with other American and Brit heads. I've always seen Orange and Matamp as pretty exclusive, so I wonder if it's more of a fashion statement, or is there something in that design that lends itself to heavy music? I'm talking about folks in this genre playing amps based on "classic" OR and GT circuts, not skinny emo kids playing Rockerverbs. I'm curious how Orange wasn't considered R'n'B backline (Stevie Wonder used them) or Matamp as "blues lawyer" amp (Peter Green used a Series 2000).

dunwichamps · June 11, 2012, 08:10:45 PM

The player makes it. Any cleanish amp can be used with heavy fuzz for 1 thing for an amp win amp gain it varies with playing type I can't get to detailed I'm on my ipod

Baxandall · June 11, 2012, 08:16:23 PM

The player behind the amp make it what it is.

Pissy · June 11, 2012, 08:20:43 PM

Lucifer's tone stack.

VOLVO))) · June 11, 2012, 08:22:44 PM

Basically, it started as... as cheap as possible. 100w+ heads were undesirable to most normal folks, so they were cheap...

dunwichamps · June 11, 2012, 08:31:51 PM

If player wishes just to use amp gain then I'd say tailor it to the sound which is what I do for my faint models but for pedal players it doesn't matter so much

eyeprod · June 11, 2012, 08:37:01 PM

I agree with the others for the most part, especially that many clean"ish" amps work well with pedals, and there are good heavy tones easily achievable. I'm more of a rock player, but I do toy with stoner and doom type tones.

I haven't played a whole lot of different amps, but the best of what I've tried has a really good sounding tone stack and functional eq abilities.

Good sounding, as in it suits my ears for what I'm trying to achieve. A really trebly amp will never satisfy me the way a beefier sounding one will. I also desire a sweet midrange "voice".

Functional, because with so many amps you go to turn a knob and you can't hear any difference in tone. My v4 rules for this. The tone knobs work really well.

clockwork green · June 11, 2012, 09:15:25 PM

I'm going to guess that you're probably in your early 20's or younger. In the early 90's Orange/Matamp gear was damn cheap because everyone wanted high gain channel switchers or modified Marshall's. I remember seeing an OR120 full stack at a notoriously expensive shop for $900...if I had the cash I probably could have walked out the door with it for $700.

Also, I'm just not buying that anything other than a doom practice amp exists at 20-watts.

Baltar · June 11, 2012, 09:32:47 PM

Lots of headroom, 6550's, KT88's, able to handle C or lower tunings. Usually not Marshall's with EL34's which are better for R'N'R.

liquidsmoke · June 11, 2012, 09:44:13 PM

Another easy thing that can help a lot for thick tones is using your neck pup or adjusting the tone volume on your bridge pup.

Hemisaurus · June 11, 2012, 10:11:43 PM

Quote from: Baltar on June 11, 2012, 09:32:47 PM
Lots of headroom, 6550's, KT88's, able to handle C or lower tunings. Usually not Marshall's with EL34's which are better for R'N'R.

Objection your honour, you can pull 200W from a quad of EL34's, it's the iron and the amp design that holds you back

For the record, I've heard stoner tones from, a Peavey Blazer, a solid state Fender, and an open back Peavey Classic combo (with my fuzz pedal).

Never belittle the one true pentode

liquidsmoke · June 11, 2012, 10:21:54 PM

And eq pedals. They change things fast. Remove or add treble bite, add gobs of low end easy, whatever you want.

taylo)))r · June 11, 2012, 10:32:10 PM

well, i have an or120, and i've owned\played a lot of amps in my day, from fenders to marshalls, to sunn etc....for me, the orange or matamp is the best for stoner\doom. Tons of low end, lots of mids, not great high end. The natural break-up\od is distinct, yet still articulate, it doesn't sound like a wall of fucking distortion. I can play chords, and you can tell what I am playing. Also, it is fucking loud as shit.

If you want chime, and nice cleans, it is not for you. Sunn amps you can get a pretty decent clean\chime, but not with old oranges\matamp in my experience. At times I really miss owning a fender, and miss that nice sparkly tone, but only now and again. You really just can't beat (for doom or stoner rock) an awesome, high gain amp that gives you natural distortion. It's kind of a one trick pony, but what a pony. I will never part with my or120. It rattles your bones, and has tone for days.

VOLVO))) · June 11, 2012, 10:36:38 PM

^^^^stoner doom amp

The Riffer · June 11, 2012, 10:38:44 PM

Depression, anger, weed. Anything else is window dressing.

Sundholm · June 11, 2012, 10:49:13 PM

Quote from: The Riffer on June 11, 2012, 10:38:44 PM
Depression, anger, weed. Anything else is window dressing.

Done.

Metal and Beer · June 11, 2012, 11:02:08 PM

I'll take 80% playing style and 20% help from gear for 200, Alex

.......on weed

spookstrickland · June 12, 2012, 03:38:06 AM

It's the tuning, you start tuning your guitar down and now matter what you are playing through it will become more and more doomy the lower you go.

Baltar · June 12, 2012, 09:00:04 AM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on June 11, 2012, 10:11:43 PM
Quote from: Baltar on June 11, 2012, 09:32:47 PM
Lots of headroom, 6550's, KT88's, able to handle C or lower tunings. Usually not Marshall's with EL34's which are better for R'N'R.
Objection your honour, you can pull 200W from a quad of EL34's, it's the iron and the amp design that holds you back

For the record, I've heard stoner tones from, a Peavey Blazer, a solid state Fender, and an open back Peavey Classic combo (with my fuzz pedal).

Never belittle the one true pentode

Very true, but I haven't met a lot of guys that super-mod out their JCM's with Merc iron or whatever. But, good point bro.

dunwichamps · June 12, 2012, 09:12:39 AM

El84 ef86 also pentodes just for measure

It all depends on ur approach ppl usually start with I want to stet xyz sound instead of what can I get from this amp

clockwork green · June 12, 2012, 10:22:21 AM

I would say that the vast majority of doom albums have been recorded with EL34 loaded guitar amps or were you referring to bass amps Baltsr?

SoupKitchen · June 12, 2012, 10:55:22 AM

So this is what I learned:

1. Beam tetrodes, not pentodes (for the most part)
2. Oranges were cheap. I never realized that. Maybe not in the US? That was Ampeg/Sunn/Acoustic.
3. It ain't so much about the preamp.
4. Playing style first, volume second.

BTW, I'm 37. When I went to college in Eugene, OR, I remember $300 used Sunn Model Ts at the Buy'n'Sell Center. I was broke at the time/living in a dorm, so that didn't work.

Thanks to all who clarified. I just didn't understand the whole 20 watt Hovercraft thing. Maybe if I slam a single-ended KT88 with an Orange preamp, I'll have the Doom Bathroom amp.

VOLVO))) · June 12, 2012, 11:26:37 AM

Quote from: SoupKitchen on June 12, 2012, 10:55:22 AM
So this is what I learned:

1. Beam tetrodes, not pentodes (for the most part)
2. Oranges were cheap. I never realized that. Maybe not in the US? That was Ampeg/Sunn/Acoustic.
3. It ain't so much about the preamp.
4. Playing style first, volume second.

BTW, I'm 37. When I went to college in Eugene, OR, I remember $300 used Sunn Model Ts at the Buy'n'Sell Center. I was broke at the time/living in a dorm, so that didn't work.

Thanks to all who clarified. I just didn't understand the whole 20 watt Hovercraft thing. Maybe if I slam a single-ended KT88 with an Orange preamp, I'll have the Doom Bathroom amp.

Don't underestimate that Hovercraft head, my friend...

Mr. Foxen · June 12, 2012, 02:10:32 PM

Mostly its about lots of power for cheap. Then when people get derivative, they go for what someone else got because it was lots of power for cheap, making them not cheap any more.

If a Matamp isn't doing good clean, it is broken. They are made to be clean machines.

everdrone · June 12, 2012, 07:41:47 PM

genres genres genres...

doom (most people mean doom metal / heavy metal ) is super heavy downtuned music, borderline metal. if ur downtuning to C and playing really slow, ur gonna need LOTs o Watts, otherwise it sounds weak, even if mic'd... so 100 watt behemoths not used for shredding fit the bill here that are bass heavy.

stoner is more classic rock sounding, it is heavy rock! it isn't even on mapofmetal.com ! heh use mapofmetal.com for beginnerz to figure out the genres....you can downtune but your amp needs a lot of bass still, so most 50 watters are not gonna cut it live without micing it but are ok for band practice. fortunately most clubs mike the amps these days so you dont have to FRY your most important music gear: your ears