Recording Help PLZ

[grimniggzy]

Okay, I'm a complete recording novice but I want to be able to record bass and guitar at home. I have some songs that have come together over the last year or so that I'd like to get a fairly presentable recording of.
Right now I use a usb mic & audacity and it's just not cutting it.

Any suggestions as to what type of mics can be used to record bass as well as guitar?
I'd rather not record directly.

Also could use some recommedations on recording gear?
Anybody still record to tape? Something tells me I should look at digital stuff for ease of use/application but I have no idea where to start.

Also I'm not really trying to spend an arm and a leg, so stuff thats easy on the wallet would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Edit: I'm doing this on PC

[fallen]

Mac?

In my opinion... best, quickest and easiest way to demo is in Garage Band. Get an M-Audio box for analog to digital conversion and record direct. The guitar amp models are decent, the bass stuff isn't that great but there is a good Fender Bassman facsimile.

The recording in Garage Band is tied to tempo and it's pretty easy to get some decent drums in there. Upside of this is that it's really, really easy to loop riffs or cut and drag parts and move things around. For songwriting it works great. The major downside is that a song can only have one tempo so unless you are going doubletime to half or 6/8 to 4/4 it's nearly impossible to slow down gradually or speed up.

I know you don't want to record direct but my theory is this... if I record a track on a demo that I want to re-use later I could either try to clean up a track recorded with a cheap mic, or I could take a digitally recorded feed from the pedal board and put it back through an amp in the studio at full volume and re-record it with a high quality mic and an engineer.

[NoSleepTilSleep]

Mac?

In my opinion... best, quickest and easiest way to demo is in Garage Band. Get an M-Audio box for analog to digital conversion and record direct. The guitar amp models are decent, the bass stuff isn't that great but there is a good Fender Bassman facsimile.

The recording in Garage Band is tied to tempo and it's pretty easy to get some decent drums in there. Upside of this is that it's really, really easy to loop riffs or cut and drag parts and move things around. For songwriting it works great. The major downside is that a song can only have one tempo so unless you are going doubletime to half or 6/8 to 4/4 it's nearly impossible to slow down gradually or speed up.

I know you don't want to record direct but my theory is this... if I record a track on a demo that I want to re-use later I could either try to clean up a track recorded with a cheap mic, or I could take a digitally recorded feed from the pedal board and put it back through an amp in the studio at full volume and re-record it with a high quality mic and an engineer.

This. But you could always do both. Getting a nice cheap digital recording rig is easy nowadays, but you should also experiment with mic recording, it will really help your capabilities later on. You can always record direct and with a mic at the same time and see what works for you. A Shure SM57 ($60-80 used) can record just about anything decently. 

[fallen]

Another recording related thing that has really helped me in the last couple of years is having a digital recorder around at all times. Could be a phone or one of those Zoom things.

It's just great when a riff or idea comes up to have something handy. Press one button and quickly record a few rough ideas or improvised riffs. It's so easy to forget a great riff if you don't get it recorded.

[grimniggzy]

I'm on PC forgot to mention that.

[grimniggzy]

Thanks for the quick answers guys. The SM57 just popped up on hellomusic.com for $75.
Ended up getting one and a tascam handheld guy for around $200 together.
Mucho appreciato mi amigos.

[heytrid]

SM57 kinda sucks to record bass unless you mix it with a DI signal, to get a good recording of bass you need something that will handle the lows well, it will do it but not very nice. A Shure Beta 52A does a good job and you can get them cheap.

I do understand you said you wante d amic to do both, so on the cheap a sm57 works, but if you find you are not getting the "low end" from recording with mic only that is why, the sm57 drops off very fast after 200hz.

[grimniggzy]

well the stuff'll be here monday. i'll see how it goes and may look into something else if needed. thanks.

[chlorpromazine]

SM57 kinda sucks to record bass unless you mix it with a DI signal, to get a good recording of bass you need something that will handle the lows well, it will do it but not very nice. A Shure Beta 52A does a good job and you can get them cheap.

I do understand you said you wante d amic to do both, so on the cheap a sm57 works, but if you find you are not getting the "low end" from recording with mic only that is why, the sm57 drops off very fast after 200hz.

Yep, just use the 57 to mic your cab, and the line out on your amp to record two tracks simultaneously. Mix the two and come up with your overall tone. Like heytrid said, the 57 is going to handle mainly 200 hz on up, so you may want to put a low pass somewhere in that ballpark on the line out signal when you're mixing down.

[grimniggzy]

If see what I come up with and post to see what you guys think.

So if I were to splurge and buy a mic for bass what do you guys think will do the trick?
I was thinking bass drum mic but I dunno.

[heytrid]

that is what a Beta52A is, the only thing about it however is that then the top drops off fast Also it peaks ALOT before it drops off.. There is a reason pretty much everyone records bass DI/Mic'ed at the same time and mixes, it will be the only way to get a nice broad flat sounding recording. I use a Heil PR30 (which is insanely versatile and good for the price), a similar mic you can pick up used for a good price sometimes would be a Shure SM7B.

I also have a MXL V67G i got for cheap and it does ok, this is a link to a song that made me spend the $100 on this mic. http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9892510 everything in the song was recorded with a sub $100 mic in a couple hours. One thing is thought it is EXTREMELY sensitive, the fish tank in the other room can be heard on things i have recorded with it fucking around, it iwll pick up any type of noise haha.

That is far as I can talk about it with personal experience and not something i read off the internet

[grimniggzy]

cool thanks a lot. def appreciated.

[Danny G]

I have more luck recording bass on the rig end rather than the mic type.


I use a 200w Ampeg 4x10 being pushed by an Epiphone 15w Valve Standard tube guitar amp chassis. Best bass tone I have ever recorded, at home or in a fancy studio. Crazy.

[grimniggzy]

Stuff comes today, can't wait.
This is the jawn I got...
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/tascam-dr-40-portable-digital-recorder/h76810000000000?src=3WWRWXGB&ZYXSEM=0&gclid=CP3Yzejz4a4CFYNo4Aod-jDJaA

I run solid state Sunn's and an Acoustic 370. To record direct would I run an 1/4" to XLR cable from my preamp/slave out to the XLR in on the Tascam?

[jibberish]

Stuff comes today, can't wait.
This is the jawn I got...
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/tascam-dr-40-portable-digital-recorder/h76810000000000?src=3WWRWXGB&ZYXSEM=0&gclid=CP3Yzejz4a4CFYNo4Aod-jDJaA

I run solid state Sunn's and an Acoustic 370. To record direct would I run an 1/4" to XLR cable from my preamp/slave out to the XLR in on the Tascam?

that's a good question. my first instinct is to be real careful.
is the xlr on the recorder a phantom powered mic input xlr?
you may want to check some numbers like impedances and i really dont know what running some pre-amp stage(active electronics) into a powered mic xlr does.   if you dont need mic-power, typically you get a 1/4" jack for like hi-impedance mics or instruments and you would run your signal into a 1/4" jack or through converters to 1/8" mini if that's what the hi imp inputs are

[grimniggzy]

oh shiz. looks like it has xlr mic or line inputs. so i guess just a 1/4 to 1/4 should be good. thanks for making me look again since I'm a lazy reader.


some more info on the recorder:

XY/AB stereo condenser mic and XLR/1/4" inputs.

The TASCAM DR-40 has adjustable mics, four-track recording and extended battery life, to give you the flexibility you need to record tracks anywhere.

The DR-40 captures up to four tracks from built-in, high-quality condenser microphones, XLR mic or line inputs. The internal mics are adjustable from XY to AB position, helping you to tailor your recording to the sound of the room. A pair of great-sounding TASCAM microphone preamps welcome condenser microphones with phantom power, recording at up to 96kHz/24-bit resolution. It accommodates balanced XLR or 1/4" line inputs using locking Neutrik Combo jacks. The DR-40 accepts SD or SDHC cards up to 32GB, and a 2GB card is included.

Once recorded, play back your takes with EQ and the optional Level Align feature to avoid volume jumps. A stereo reverb effect is also built-in, as well as a speaker and chromatic tuner. Transfer recordings to computer using the USB 2.0 jack. Other features include overdub mode, variable speed playback, limiting and low cut filter, and much more – all with TASCAM's simple-to-use interface. Home or live recording is as simple as it gets with the TASCAM DR-40.



Features
Handheld 4-track Portable Recorder
Built-in condenser microphones, adjustable to XY or AB position
XLR / 1/4" mic/line input with phantom power
Record with the built-in microphones and XLR mic or line inputs for four-track recording
Dual-recording mode captures a safety track at a lower level to avoid distortion
Overdub mode allows recording along with a previous take
Peak reduction automatically sets the ideal recording level
15-hour battery life from three AA batteries
Up to 96kHz/24-bit WAV/BWF or MP3 recording resolution
2-second pre-recording buffer
Variable speed playback from 50-150% speed without changing the pitch
Adjustable limiter and low cut filter (40 / 80 / 120 Hz)
Built-in speaker and chromatic tuner
1/8" headphone/line output
Playback EQ and level align
Stereo Reverb effect
Tripod mounting hole
SD/SDHC card slot supports up to 32GB media (2GB card included)
Locking Neutrik Combi jacks
USB 2.0 jack and cable for transferring recordings to computer
Powered by three AA batteries, AC adapter (optional PS-P515U - not included), external battery pack (optional BP-6AA - not included), or USB bus power
Optional RC-3F footswitch and RC-10 wired remote control (Not Included)

[jibberish]

that dual xlr/1/4" input trickery is pretty cool. awesome real estate savings right there.
i see they use 1/8" mini on the output/phones.

that really looks like a cool little piece you have there.  very nice.
and i also see it is phantom powered xlr, so that could have been a big oopsie running the preamp line out into the xlr

and like i said,  i don't know for sure, but putting w/e 24/40v(i forget) backwards into a line out just doesnt sound kosher. 

man, have fun

[grimniggzy]

Yeah, def a 1/4" in there. Should be fun, I'll post what I come up with. Thanks again bros.

[grimniggzy]

So I went through the instructions and I'm not sure about something. On the side there is a 3-way switch (line in/mic/phantom power)/ Since I want to record with a mic and a direct line at the same time I have no idea which setting it should be on.
I don't have an xlr-->xlr cable yet anyway so I'll see what recording direct sounds like alone.

[jibberish]

So I went through the instructions and I'm not sure about something. On the side there is a 3-way switch (line in/mic/phantom power)/ Since I want to record with a mic and a direct line at the same time I have no idea which setting it should be on.
I don't have an xlr-->xlr cable yet anyway so I'll see what recording direct sounds like alone.

sure, even just set it out there, hit record and play your rig to the internal mics, see what you get.
i would take that thing to a show and see how it picks up too heh.

i feel kind of hesitant to keep guessing at things here, maybe i'll do some research on that piece.

but initial guess is that is your input selector.  the tricky dual-jack seems to be selectable for either-or, not both.

[grimniggzy]

yeah, thats some shit. After reading a little in the manual i think it only has to do with changing the level. I'll probably just set it to line in and see how it work with the built in mics and then when a have a proper mic cable do the same with the shure.