3 prong conversion for a Tel Ray ad n echo

[Chovie D]

Heres the schematic



Id prefer to work from a 'layout' as I cannot read schematics.
IM hoping one of you experts will be able to help me convert this two prong plug to a three prong, this thing is shocking me.
I also need to change the oil and I have the replacement oil so if youve done that before any advice or experiences related would be helpful.
It sounds so creepy good  right now, IM afraid to change the oil...but i know it doesnt sound like it should and one setting doesnt even work so theres probably a head loose or disconnected in that can. I wish i could have a button that wold save this fucked up setting tho before i change the oil  

for the 3 prong What i need is a non technical dummies description like, "black wire goes here, white wire goes here, green wire goes here"
Thanks in advance...cool beast aint it?

[RacerX]

I'd assume the black & white will be the same. The green might be soldered to the chassis, I think. One of the techies'll chime in, I'm sure.

[VOLVO)))]

I'd assume the black & white will be the same. The green might be soldered to the chassis, I think. One of the techies'll chime in, I'm sure.

That's what I'd assume, myself. See that resistor soldered to the chassis? On the schem it shows that one going to ground... NO LOOPS.

[Chovie D]

I'd assume the black & white will be the same. The green might be soldered to the chassis, I think. One of the techies'll chime in, I'm sure.

That's what I'd assume, myself. See that resistor soldered to the chassis? On the schem it shows that one going to ground... NO LOOPS.

I thought chassis WAS ground? i dont know what "no Loops " means

[Hemisaurus]

go post a link to the schematic, tripod is blocking the image.

[Chovie D]

stupid tripo.
heres link
http://jray1.tripod.com/images/TelRay_Ad_N_Echo.gif
heres image


in case none of that works its teh model 1000 and schematics are on the link at teh botoom of this page.
http://jray1.tripod.com/

[Hemisaurus]

Remove large white capacitor marked .047 MFD 600VDC

Get 3 prong cord.

Solder white to where current white is, black to where current black is, and green to the chassis. You can either direct solder the green, or put it on a tag, and clamp it to that bolt beside the power inlet. Obviously your removing the 2 wire cord as you solder in the 3 wire one.

This should do it.

If it is excessively noisy, then you will have a lot more work, involving setting up a circuit ground, either buss or starpoint and soldering all the connections currently going to chassis to that groundpoint (except for power grounds) and fitting insulated jacks.

[Hemisaurus]

Further ideas would be fitting a fuse, which will be tricky given the massive startup current of most motors, and a cap job, at least the electrolytics, and those blue sausage caps. I have a 60's amp with sausage caps, and they are all failing.

However, like I say jobs for another day if the 3 prong conversion fixes it. I suspect you either have the plug polarity wrong (who can tell on a 2 prong) or the white cap is already leaking. Either way the cap has to go. You'll be safer without it.

[RAGER]

That's why they call those the death cap.  If you try to solder that to the chassis, you're gonna need a big ass soldering iron to heat that shit up.  Maybe just a heavy ring terminal and star washer and mount it to one of the bolts for the motor.

[Chovie D]

Thanks, that sounds right (i did a bassman a while back with the hlep of a freind).
I iwll report back after I do it. probably not this weekend...

[jibberish]

Further ideas would be fitting a fuse, which will be tricky given the massive startup current of most motors, and a cap job, at least the electrolytics, and those blue sausage caps. I have a 60's amp with sausage caps, and they are all failing.

they gotcher back on that one. there are fuses especially for big draw startup devices like motors, heaters yada. <-those devices that pull way more at startup than at steady-state operation.
they are known as "slo-blow"  they look really weird but they are built to take that startup draw condition and not blow. well even those can only take the draw for a certain time, then they melt.

i think the fuse is a solid idea, especially involving ancient electro-mechanical crap. if that thing seizes or finally loses a brush and hangs,shorts across windings etc.. it truly could catch on fire with no fuse and it has all the way to 20amps to work its nasty magic as it slowly shorts /burns/w/e to where it finally draws 20amps and kills the main breaker

edit: add plus pyrothechnics points for the fact that there is some quantity of oil in the mix.

[Hemisaurus]

Yeah slow-blows are more for the sudden in-rush for the power supply, rather than the back emf of a motor.

[jibberish]

they are for any type of excessive startup current which would fry a normal fast-blow in its normal operation.
thats all there is in like a metalworking shop since every machine has a motor.   you should see the size of a 100amp 480volt fuse. like half a roman candle sized heh

[Chovie D]

I aint recapping anything, especially not those blue molded jammies...thats where the mojo is kept!

[Ayek]

I'd imagine the load on that little motor would equate to sweet fuck all, inrush current shouldn't be much of a factor. It's only when the rotating magnetic field is getting going that the current can get up a bit, especially if there's a bit of load it's trying to move.  You could always go for a motor rated HRC fuse, though I'm sure a slo blow glass fuse would prolly be fine. That looks like a shaded pole motor, like what's in bathroom fans and such, those things can usually handle a shitload of grief without risk of burning out. It'll be fine, I'm sure.

[Chovie D]

i dont know what you guys are talking aboot with this fuse thing. but heres a little bit of info i neglected to include before:

It seems like I only get shocked after the thing has ben running for a while, like the charge builds up or something.

[RAGER]

something's heating up and separating due to the heat.  Some solder joint probably

[jibberish]

the fuse thing is a simple in-line deal, like a car stereo fuse holder that goes right in-line after the power switch like wire would. the fuse bodies are standard sized with different guts.

i personally like the spring loaded screw-in fixed mount fuse holders. the downside is you have to drill a hole.
but any fuse setup is better than none.

bottom line for these types of electrical devices: should be fused and grounded.  no exceptions. needless risk not to.  besides, that could save your equipment if something nasty shorted out, even if you didnt get zapped

[Chovie D]

thats more involved than i wanna get with this thing..i'll just huck it back up on the shelf then.

[jibberish]

it really is easy, especially if you steal the old car stereo's fuse holder

cut power switch wire. strip both ends of cut. insert in-line fuse holder with wire nuts. done in maybe 2 minutes. pick a fuse that is what the unit is specced for current (wattage/100 approx=current) as a start point. i would try a fast blow first also.

wire nuts are legitimately code for electrician work. this is mains before the device so it will have no effect being wire-nut fastened vs soldered.

if power switch is a trick dpst that cuts off the neutral too, cut the black wire, or the wire leaving the switch FROM the black wire in from the mains (that you just installed).

if you are getting tickled, aside from the reverse non-polarized plug deal, the white(common) may not be grounded to ground(green) and can float some volts off ground. 

you can run the thing from a GFI unit (ground fault interrupter like hopefully in your bathroom /kitchen outlets as a safety item) so if any juice leaks anywhere but back down the white wire, it trips. kind of like a circuit breaker but only if there is a ground fault(you=a circuit to ground)

GFI's are SOP for my marine aquarium electrical shit. if it is in the water, it is GFI'd
a) we must be retards putting 110vac devices in boxes of salt water in the first place.
b) see a.
c) all of the above

[Hemisaurus]

Never solder your home wiring, one of my buddies did that, soldered then wire nuts, and the code inspector cited him for it, so he had to cut them all off. Of course after the inspector left, he went back round and soldered them all again, as he's a stubborn old cuss.

[jibberish]

heh, i get kind of anal like that, like crimp terminals..i usually solder those anyway after i crimp them. idk why but i just feel better afterwards.

also i LOVE the smell of rosin-core when i'm soldering. all that carcinogenic goodness is nirvana.