Self Built (Point to Point) Budget Doom Head for 400 bucks, Orange based circuit

[dunwichamps]

So a bunch of guys on here are looking for the best deal on getting a head. For those of you who have some balls, you can get a MOD 101 50W kit head for 400 bucks (+ship)

http://www.tubesandmore.com/scripts/foxweb.dll/moreinfo@d:/dfs/elevclients/cemirror/ELEVATOR.FXP?item=K-MOD101

This kit is sort of an experimenters kit because you can do all sorts of circuits with it. For the price its a pretty damn good deal,

Hammond Transformers, Mallory Caps, Carbon Film resistors. All JJ tubes. Its a terminal strip based layout with 2 preamp tubes and 2 power tubes (JJ 6L6 or EL34)

It has 3 controls, Bass Treble and Volume. If you looking to get a simple Orange 50W style head it could be built of this thing. Bass and Treble would be a bax stack and you would have a non master simple version. Of course your shedding a few controls (presence,boost, and the FAC) but those can either be hardwired for personal tatse or eliminated (boost and presence come to mind)

if you down, i can cook up a schematic and then you can build it youself.

[justinhedrick]

oh now that's cool!

i wonder how it differs from say, an old tube PA head? (besides all the uneccesary crap in the pa head).

[Chovie D]

Ive built several kit amps. It was a fun (and at times frustrating) experience. I recommend it tho. It will give you the confidence and basic knowledge to do simple repairs on your existing amps...in the end you save enough money to pay for the amp you've built. You also learn about amplification in a way I hadnt expectd, and improving your understanding actually helps you acheive better tones, or at least gives you some ideas as to how best get the tones you want. To top it off, the amps I built sound fantastic.
I enjoy having a project to work on so these wer great for me, gave me a couple weeknds worth of FUN building em. (Then 4 months worth of frustration sorting out the tremolo  on my 18 watt-the layout and schem provided were incorrect!!  )

alot of people here think 60 watts isnt enough. IM not one of those, I use a forty over my 120, and 2 100 watters.

[justinhedrick]

i've thought about just finding a 40-60 watt tube pa head and just start going to town (under the guidance of a few friends). alas, that is probably a ways off.

[dunwichamps]

this sucker would be like any 50W guitar head, just condensed in size, no aesthetic frills.

[Chovie D]

i've thought about just finding a 40-60 watt tube pa head and just start going to town (under the guidance of a few friends). alas, that is probably a ways off.

a 70's fender pa100 head might be nice for that, i think all you'd have to do is deal with the tone stacks?.
4 channels, 100 watts.

[justinhedrick]

i've thought about just finding a 40-60 watt tube pa head and just start going to town (under the guidance of a few friends). alas, that is probably a ways off.

a 70's fender pa100 head might be nice for that, i think all you'd have to do is deal with the tone stacks?.
4 channels, 100 watts.

i've thought about this, but all of those i see now are kind of expensive (over $400). I would think i could get an older bogen or some off brand PA head for well under that.

[xayk]

if you down, i can cook up a schematic and then you can build it youself.

I've been dwelling on an amp build for a few weeks, and I may have to jump on this.  If I do, I'd love some guidance in adding a FAC to an Orange-style build.

This came along at a sweet time, as I've been both a) lusting after OR80's and OR120's, and b) just got six 6550's from a friend, which, rather than have sit around, I thought I should use.  But for a first amp build, a kit is probably the better answer.

[Hemisaurus]

The FAC is a bunch of selectable capacitors on am switch, it's often put right in front of the input jack, before the first triode.



sometimes it's done as part of the tone stack instead

[dunwichamps]

if you down, i can cook up a schematic and then you can build it youself.

I've been dwelling on an amp build for a few weeks, and I may have to jump on this.  If I do, I'd love some guidance in adding a FAC to an Orange-style build.

This came along at a sweet time, as I've been both a) lusting after OR80's and OR120's, and b) just got six 6550's from a friend, which, rather than have sit around, I thought I should use.  But for a first amp build, a kit is probably the better answer.

You possibly could run 6550s, the OT in this amp is a 1650P which has a primary impedance of 6600 a little higher than where I normally would run a KT88 or 6550. the PT is a 374BX which has plenty of heater current and a secondary of 375V which would give an unloaded B+ of 530 thats not bad for a pair of 6550s.

Adding a FAC would take some thought the amp is fairly tight but its possible.


We could build a FAC pedal, which is just a FAC in the pedal before the amp that would also work. Maybe even include boosters for some tweaks

[xayk]

You possibly could run 6550s, the OT in this amp is a 1650P which has a primary impedance of 6600 a little higher than where I normally would run a KT88 or 6550. the PT is a 374BX which has plenty of heater current and a secondary of 375V which would give an unloaded B+ of 530 thats not bad for a pair of 6550s.

Adding a FAC would take some thought the amp is fairly tight but its possible.


We could build a FAC pedal, which is just a FAC in the pedal before the amp that would also work. Maybe even include boosters for some tweaks

I'd seen the OR120 preamp schematic before with the FAC as part of the tone stack - I'm guessing it'd be easier to slide it in after the input/between the triode?  Or, as you say, as a pedal.  Would that be entirely passive, no power to it?  Would be an interesting idea.

I don't even really need to use the 6550's in this kit.  I was just kind of wondering aloud if, after a few years of pedals and a few amps mods, if starting 'from scratch' w/ 6550's was a bad idea vs. doing a kit first. And I know in my heart the answer to that question. 

[dunwichamps]

You possibly could run 6550s, the OT in this amp is a 1650P which has a primary impedance of 6600 a little higher than where I normally would run a KT88 or 6550. the PT is a 374BX which has plenty of heater current and a secondary of 375V which would give an unloaded B+ of 530 thats not bad for a pair of 6550s.

Adding a FAC would take some thought the amp is fairly tight but its possible.


We could build a FAC pedal, which is just a FAC in the pedal before the amp that would also work. Maybe even include boosters for some tweaks

I'd seen the OR120 preamp schematic before with the FAC as part of the tone stack - I'm guessing it'd be easier to slide it in after the input/between the triode?  Or, as you say, as a pedal.  Would that be entirely passive, no power to it?  Would be an interesting idea.

I don't even really need to use the 6550's in this kit.  I was just kind of wondering aloud if, after a few years of pedals and a few amps mods, if starting 'from scratch' w/ 6550's was a bad idea vs. doing a kit first. And I know in my heart the answer to that question. 

Whether or not its in the amp or in a pedal, FAC is always passive, its just an adjustable RC filter. Where it is located is important, out front its going to have a huge range on your clipping while the later in the amp, the less control it has on clipping. Building it in a pedal is nice because you can shuttle it between different amps, even before/after other pedals to get interesting ideas. It can be totally unpowered 2, or maybe a 9V bat for the LED if that is needed

[justinhedrick]

you could also run it in the effects loop of an amp, no?

[dunwichamps]

Yep but this sucker doesnt have a loop and I would not recommend putting one in, it takes a lot of design and space, and another tube slot

If the loop was really low impedance the FAC would need to be slightly modded to address this 2

[dunwichamps]

here you go, this covers preamp up to PI, doesnt include FAC, should just build it out front. right click and hit view image or what nor

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2172/budgetorange.png



it looks a little complex but most of that shit gets mount on the pots (all of the components of the bax stack do) it can be done with terminal strips. It would really be a great simple build that destroys crap commercial amps

[dunwichamps]

I emailed them for the kit instructions in detail so I can see how easily this can be done. You may need a few components to fit the bill, idk yet as i dont know all the stuff which comes with the kit but i dont think it would cost much either way.

[justinhedrick]

anyone remember the very tone pedal from snarling dog? is that like a FAC pedal?

[dunwichamps]

After listening to one, its nothing like a FAC, its something else. Could be passive filtering but its not what a FAC does, which is much similar.

[justinhedrick]

After listening to one, its nothing like a FAC, its something else. Could be passive filtering but its not what a FAC does, which is much similar.

i see. i see.

[dunwichamps]

All you need for an outboard fac is half dozen capacitors, 1 resistor, one 6 pos 1 pole rotary switch, 2 jacks, one 3PDT switch, and an enclosure. If you need a bat and LED then that 2

[justinhedrick]

All you need for an outboard fac is half dozen capacitors, 1 resistor, one 6 pos 1 pole rotary switch, 2 jacks, one 3PDT switch, and an enclosure. If you need a bat and LED then that 2

right on. i've heard most people mainly use the first 2 positions? any truth?

[dunwichamps]

yea they can get too bright IMO (suck too much bass away), that why i design them to have more intermediate cap values so you get more useful selections

[bitter]

anyone remember the very tone pedal from snarling dog? is that like a FAC pedal?

A buddy had one years back. From what I remember, it really just set the level of low end punch to brightness. It was kind of like a mix between a treble boost and a preset eq pedal. it didn't effect clipping like the FAC can do.

[Hemisaurus]

The graphics always sounded fine to me, the ones I worked on in the 90's were all graphics or derivatives (200), I've never encountered one where the FAC is beyond the tonestack, so I don't know how they sound, nor have I heard one of the modern ones with mids.

The earlier ones the caps look like they are in parallel, but you're only ever getting one at a time. The other ones, and I think maybe the Weber kit, the caps are in series, the more caps you add in series, the smaller the capacitance value you end up with (small capacitance == less bass).

[Hemisaurus]

here you go, this covers preamp up to PI, doesnt include FAC, should just build it out front. right click and hit view image or what nor

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2172/budgetorange.png



it looks a little complex but most of that shit gets mount on the pots (all of the components of the bax stack do) it can be done with terminal strips. It would really be a great simple build that destroys crap commercial amps

NB the second tube in the kit is an AT7 not an AX7, you could split the difference and get a DW7 if you need the higher mu for the phase splitter.

If it's front panel space that's the problem, couldn't you skip the standby switch, move the power switch to the standby position and mount the FAC right next to the input jack, you can put the whole input assy on the jack and link it straight to the FAC a la, the front panel of the 200 design.