Why are 10" and 15" speakers so common for bass cabs

[Ranbat]

 Just curious. Why 10" vs 12"? Are there any good 12" speakers for bass? I'm a total noob to the whole bass rig concept.

[The Riffer]

My next cab is going to have these:
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/bass12f.html

[MichaelZodiac]

I have a question related to this one: which current-on-the-market 15" bass speakers are worth looking into? I still have to settle on that one with my 2000S clone. I was going to go with a pair of Eminence but now I'm starting to doubt.

[giantchris]

I have a 2x12 for bass and have owned a 2nd one at one time.  I think it has to do with the fact that you generally see people with either an 8x10 or a 4x10 and a 1x15.  A lot of people say that if you are downtuning you can articulate the lower notes better with 15s and a lot of people seem to say you get better highs with the 10s I've also seen people say the 10s give you a faster response (whatever that means).  Personally I think it has to do with that 10s and 15s tend to emphasize the frequency ranges that the majority of bass players want more then 12s.

Personally I like to mix cab sizes if possible am currently dual amping running 400w into a peavey 1516 (1x15 and 2x8) and running an acoustic b140 into an old acoustic 2x12.  Seems to cover the range nicely.

[SpaceTrucker]

I use a 4 12 cab for bass, Its got slot ports on the back. 200watts with a sunn transducer and I'm guessing equivalent eminence speakers. Bass or guitar cab.

[Baltar]

I use a Celesion 4x10 cab for guitar, but they're G10C30's voiced for guitar.  I think the 4x12 came into voquge in the 60's with Hendrix.  But then there is the Fender Twin, and Tweeds that came with 12's first.
Blame Fender.  Someone else will have a more informed response.  I'm too lazy to look it up.  Where's Clockwork, he'll know.

[Hemisaurus]

Then there's the 5" drivers in the Piranha.

[bitter]

Hemi, wasn't there a model of like 64x5" drivers some years back?

[Baltar]

Get the fuck out of here!  How the fuck would 5" speakers sound?

[bitter]

I think they sound fine if you get enough cone-age happening to rival a normal 10-15" setup.  I'm not an expert though.

[Hemisaurus]

Never heard one 3 grand is too steep a price for me

[At_Giza]

Of course Mr. Jones has a theory to back it up.

http://www.philjonespuresound.com/about/documents/PJPS_WP_5DriversforBass.pdf

If you ask me, it makes some sense, but it also makes it sound like a big fat buy-me-because-I'm-better sales pitch.

[bitter]

maybe it was this I'm thinking of...

http://www.philjonespuresound.com/products/?id=99

[mortlock]

Then there's the 5" drivers in the Piranha.

i cant imaging geezer rocking out through one of those..looks too weird.

[Hemisaurus]

I'd imagine Geezer, would be pretty open minded.

[Baltar]

Better keep it out of Beggar's Canyon, or you know who will nab it.

[Lumpy]

Short answer: builders copy what is popular.

Long-ass possible answer:
12 inch speakers are getting more common, especially for stand-alone (1x12) cabs. Seems like not many manufacturers concentrated on making good 12" bass speakers for a long while, until recently. Why? Just a guess, but maybe the lingering memory in the public's mind of the early days of bass cabs, where they were basically converted guitar cabs (from what I understand) and manufacturers hadn't figured out how to calculate the optimal box size. So, sub-par 12" speakers inside boxes that weren't big enough = sucks, unless you are using a lot of them at once. Most guys are not using stacks of bass cabs on a festival stage, they need one cab that can sound great by itself. Bass cabs have improved a lot, bass speaker technology has improved a lot. The old (60s, early 70s) speakers don't handle a lot of watts, and they don't have the low-end extension that modern musicians expect. The technology has improved (as compared to guitar cabs where people genuinely find the old stuff desirable). Today's good bass cabs can usually go lower, are louder, and are smaller and lighter.

When something sells well, then you see other people copying it. Everybody makes an 8x10, it was an effective design and people liked it and bought it (BTW, the early SVT 8x10 speakers only handled 30 watts apiece, as far as old speaker technology). People liked 2x15 so they built more. Seems like 1x15 is less popular now, being replaced by the 1x12, because guys who want smaller cabs really want them to be small and light now. And speaker size and frequency response are not directly related, BTW. It depends on the particular speaker. There are 10s that can go very low (especially in a bigger or ported box) and 18 speakers with quick accurate response. Supposedly the Phil Jones (5" speaker) cabs go real low (because there is a lot of speaker surface, and a big ass vented box I guess).

So why did late 60s/early 70s manufacturers stop making 12" bass speaker cabs? Maybe to show the public that they weren't using outdated technology from the 60s. Then, those new style cabs started selling pretty well, and they were copied.

Just babbling... I'm probably totally wrong.

[Ranbat]

 I was thinking that maybe there was a 10" speaker that was THE speaker for bass and it just went that way as a standard. Or that maybe there was an actual reason a 10" bass speaker sounded better than a 12" bass speaker due to response.

[Hemisaurus]

I think they went for a particular sound, rather than performance. Or maybe impressive looks? Some of those older Acoustic and Sunn designs were spectacular performers, but big and heavy.

[Lumpy]

People liked the SVT sealed cabs with 10 inch speakers. So, that was a hit, so that explains the 10" speaker. If people buy something, other builders will jump on the bandwagon. As far as the 15 inch speaker, there is the idea that bigger speakers automatically means more bass (not necessarily true - maybe it was true 40 years ago? No idea). But people still think that holds true today, even if it's not. Logically, it sorta follows... bass waves are big waves, it takes a big speaker cone to reproduce them (I think it's more complicated than that, for example the mass of the magnet is probably a big factor, size of the box, number of speakers, ported vs. sealed etc). Anyway, people tried the 18" speaker, some people liked them, others found them muddy or indistinct (generalizing here... it depends on the speaker and cabinet design, more than just the specific speaker size. I'm just talking about 'buying trends'). The 15" speaker was probably seen as a good compromise at some point... big cone appeals to people's notion that the speaker sounds deep, yet not quite as flabby as the 18. Like "I tried that 18" cab made by Brand X and it was too mushy, so I'll try this 15" cab made by Brand Y instead" even though they are two completely different designs by two different manufacturers, and use two completely different types of speakers.

I'm not dissing any speakers ("flabby" is probably an outdated stereotype based on old technology) I'm talking about shopper's perceptions, expectations, and what sells in the marketplace, plus the history of bass speaker design and how it's changed. (That's what this thread is about?) Somebody who knows a lot about speaker design and the history of the bass cabinet could probably write a book.

One other thing -- the size of the box is related to the size of the speaker. Based on whatever the speaker specs are, there is an optimal internal volume (dimensions) for the cab. A large speaker typically needs a corresponding larger cab in order to function optimally (effectively reproduce the lower frequencies, and sound loud, I guess). And most bass players do not want to haul around heavy and massive cabs, if they don't have to. There are bass players who like huge cabs but that is a small segment of the bass playing population. If you are going to venture into manufacturing something, most savvy business people will aim to please as many people as possible. A company that only appeals to a small segment is limiting their ability to grow, and possibly their company life span. Building fringe pedals is easier to do than building fringe, monster cabinets (you can build pedals at your kitchen table). However, it does seem like heavy rock is getting more popular, so who knows? A company that caters to a certain aesthetic could hit it big, if that scene were to blow up. Look at Sub Pop records.

Just babbling, I'll shut up now.

[Hemisaurus]

Well the chaps at Monolith are building classic design cabs, aren't they?

There are also companies that make highly accurate speaker reproductions cabs for bass, like Schroeder and Accu-Groove, and they appeal to a certain segment of the bass playing public.

For bass especially I'd posit that the cab is way more important than the amp, different cab designs can mate better with different drivers, not necessarily needing a large volume. Certain drivers are more useful in a horn, some in a ported box etc. Driver size is still kind of important for at the end of the day it's about moving air, but especially in a horn design, motor strength matters, look at Eminence's LAB-12, which was designed to be used in pairs, in a specifically designed box for it.



As to the me-too'ism of cab design, it's too true, the Ampeg 810 is 3dB down before you get off the A string. 10dB down on the E string, and not even spec'd for a B string. Most of what is heard in what is called rock bass are the harmonics, always have been I suppose. I can't imagine a Fender Bassman (the original one) can get very low, I don't even know if the amp is capable of passing LF. I think Mesa Boogie are the only ones making a 2x15 now, apart from generics (cheap cabs) and boutique builders

A regular strung bass, the lowest note is 41Hz, downtune to C# it's 35Hz, get a B string it's 31Hz, drop that to A you got 27.5Hz and take it down to the F# and it's 21Hz. Armed with these numbers, look up the spec on the cabs you use, or figure 'em out. If you know the drivers and the cab size, there are online calculators that will plot response for you. Remember 3dB down is the normal cutoff point, some manufacturers cheat and quote the -10dB point as useable, which means, it get's there, it's quieter, you need to crank up the bass knob and you'll probably blow the speakers when you do

Yeah, I'm gibbering too now, but it's amazing that a lot of bassplayers don't realise they are never hearing the fundamentals of their instrument.

[Lumpy]

I bet that sounds nice, but it looks heavy, and probably takes up a lot of room in the van. Especially two of those. 

I have an Ampeg 8x10, I haven't found it lacking in bass (but I'm not trying to play crazy low notes on it. I tune to D. Pretty normal. I like the low-mids). The 6x10s are ported and have a better low end. I like the sound of the 8x10 but I've never A/B'd them.

Should the bass drum be the lowest freq. in the band, or the bass guitar? I believe it should be the drum. Call me old fashioned.

[Hemisaurus]

Well really the keyboard player should be the lowest in the band, then the bassplayer, then the kick drum, kick drum never gets much below a low G.

The great thing about horns, is coupling, they couple with the floor, corners and each other. One LABHorn on it's own is good down to 22Hz, I think, but if you put two side by side, they go lower, get six, lower still, etc.