Running effects at 18v?

bitter · August 31, 2011, 01:56:43 AM

I did a couple searches without any relative results.

This question is for pedals that can accept a voltage of 9-18v, such as the catalinbread DLS. I've read that the higher voltage(s) will increase headroom. I can't really wrap my head around this concept for pedals. I have a manx fuzz and supercollider, and although they are both muff variants, they do have a different feel. Both are running at 9v dc but their headroom is different.

What are the tangible benefits of running suitable pedals at higher voltage [12v or 18v]? Is it really noticable? Make a difference in tone/feel?

Thanks.

Hemisaurus · August 31, 2011, 08:19:25 AM

Putting headroom on a fuzz sounds a bit oxymoronic, but if the pedal is built for it, what you are basically doing is doubling the possible size of the output signal, but not increasing the gain.

So say at 9V you put in 1V signal, and you get out 9V signal, if you put in a 2V signal, you still only get out a 9V signal.

At 18V if you put in a 1V signal, you still get out a 9V signal, but if you put in the 2V signal you get out an 18V signal, so you have increased your headroom.

Make sense?

grimniggzy · August 31, 2011, 10:22:03 AM

I like the Fulltone OCD running at 18v a lot more than 9. I noticed a lot more headroom and thought the pedal sounded better in every way.

rayinreverse · August 31, 2011, 10:33:09 AM

in the case of overdirve/dist/fuzz effects running at 18 volts, the signal will be less compressed with slightly less gain.

bloodofkings · August 31, 2011, 10:55:37 AM

I'm really curious about this. Of just snagged an AnalogMan chorus off a buddy of mine and the manual talks about running it at 12v as opposed to 9v. Says something about more headroom. I want to try it and see what it sounds like.

Instant Dan · August 31, 2011, 10:59:03 AM

All I know is that the higher the voltage, the brighter it gets. It works great for some pedals, I hated it on my EQD Monarch OD.

bitter · August 31, 2011, 01:29:39 PM

Wow, thanks for the input fellas!

Quote from: Hemisaurus on August 31, 2011, 08:19:25 AM
Putting headroom on a fuzz sounds a bit oxymoronic, but if the pedal is built for it, what you are basically doing is doubling the possible size of the

That's what funny in this case. The manx fuzz I have does a little of everything. I don't run it like a fuzz, more like an overdrive. Basically, I derive the primary source of gain from the level and the gain knob adds more saturation and bite. There is so much gain on tap with the drive off and level at 6~7 [traditional od boost setting] that extra headroom/less compression would allow me more flexibility when driving a dirty amp. That being said, I get very little sqaush or fizz when boosting. Never had a fuzz/dist pedal that could do that before.

Hemisaurus · August 31, 2011, 03:50:34 PM

Well what everyone else has said is true.

As it has more headroom, it's not going to get as compressed (or squashed) sounding. The highs are therefore not going to be as muffled because it has more range, and it may sound less gainy, because the compression gives the impression that it's louder as it squashes the dynamics.

If you want it to sound cleaner, 18V might be a good thing, just remember it's going to hit your amp, or the next pedal in the chain hotter as well, so it may effect those things further down the line. Also it won't actually be a full 18V signal (like plus or minus 9V) but it will be considerably louder.

bitter · August 31, 2011, 04:41:44 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on August 31, 2011, 03:50:34 PM
Well what everyone else has said is true.

As it has more headroom, it's not going to get as compressed (or squashed) sounding. The highs are therefore not going to be as muffled because it has more range, and it may sound less gainy, because the compression gives the impression that it's louder as it squashes the dynamics.

If you want it to sound cleaner, 18V might be a good thing, just remember it's going to hit your amp, or the next pedal in the chain hotter as well, so it may effect those things further down the line. Also it won't actually be a full 18V signal (like plus or minus 9V) but it will be considerably louder.

Ok, this is pretty interesting stuff Hemi. This manx fuzz is based off a rams head style muff and uses a Baxandall tone stack. If I understand it correctly, the rams head muffs have a flat midrange? I keep the treble on the pedal at noon and bass at 2 'oclock so as not to create that U shaped mid scoop. Catalinbread claims, "About the Baxandall tone control: Crank both treble and bass and you get a classic scooped midrange. Back both off, while turning up the volume knob and your midrange content increases". I try to keep the bass and level at 2 o'clock in order to give them a wee boost. My setup is bright so I don't need as much treble. Having that extra range on the high end to fine tune will be most helpful.

As for the lessened gain, I'm not too concerned as I keep the pedal's gain knob no-to-low and can always increase it along with the pre-amp's gain. However, what are some of the negatives of hitting the amp harder [in this case]? I mean, at 9v I'm still hitting it pretty hot and adding a fair amount of comp.

Hemisaurus · August 31, 2011, 04:53:29 PM

As far as I know, the original Rams head was actually the most scooped of the Muffs, and has only a single tone control.

Ram's Head

A Baxandall is a bass / treble shelving control, and works exactly as you said, at midpoint on both controls the EQ should be flat, raising both will result in a scooped mid, lowering both in a peaked mid.

Hitting the amp harder, well it depends on the amp, it may distort in nasty ways, you'll probably have to turn the gain down, a tube section tends to get thinner sounding as it's hit harder, but I mean you can compensate for all this by either turning down the gain on the amp, or the level on the pedal itself. Bass amps often have a pad inline for active basses, you may want to engage that. Really just suck it and see, and don't start it up cranked or you may scare the crap out yourself

bitter · August 31, 2011, 06:54:34 PM

1

spookstrickland · August 31, 2011, 10:26:24 PM

I've always thought running two batteries with a voltage regulator would be cool that way you could run longer and have a more consistent tone before you start running into dying battery problems.

Hemisaurus · August 31, 2011, 10:36:08 PM

I read a review on a Li-On battery pack that was designed as a regulated 9 or 12 V for pedals, and lasted a nice long time. There's an easy(ish) way to get 18V you need 3 9V batteries, two good, and one dead. Pull the dead one apart for the connector at the top, solder a piece of wire across it, use this to jumper the two good 9V batteries together, and the battery clip should fit across the remaining terminals.

Some people like less headroom that's why some power bricks have a couple of sag outputs, so you can get the dying battery effect.

bitter · August 31, 2011, 10:46:04 PM

yep! seen that. never been a fan of the dying batt thing personally but the concept is cool.

spookstrickland · August 31, 2011, 11:29:03 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on August 31, 2011, 10:36:08 PM
I read a review on a Li-On battery pack that was designed as a regulated 9 or 12 V for pedals, and lasted a nice long time. There's an easy(ish) way to get 18V you need 3 9V batteries, two good, and one dead. Pull the dead one apart for the connector at the top, solder a piece of wire across it, use this to jumper the two good 9V batteries together, and the battery clip should fit across the remaining terminals.

Some people like less headroom that's why some power bricks have a couple of sag outputs, so you can get the dying battery effect.

That is pure Genius Hemi I'm going to use that on my next pedal build.