Doomhawk's Speaker Cabinet Thread

doomhawk · August 30, 2011, 05:17:52 PM

well here is a 69/70 marshall B cab. needs retolexing - obviously... really wanted to fix it up and use it - but i just lost interest. no casters. has original handles and metal caster cups. previous owner altered the input jack, but you can add a larger plate it will be fine. you can get them through Mojo or Antique. $400

call or text ryan with questions or for more pics.
201-452-6752

RacerX · August 30, 2011, 05:23:35 PM

$400 for an empty, naked (albeit vintage) cab without most of the hardware?

Is it made outta weed?

rayinreverse · August 30, 2011, 05:29:35 PM

Quote from: RacerX on August 30, 2011, 05:23:35 PM
$400 for an empty, naked (albeit vintage) cab without most of the hardware?

Is it made outta weed?

it better give handjobs out.... i mean once you drop another 400 for speakers that is.

Hemisaurus · August 30, 2011, 05:38:52 PM

It kinda proves a cab is just a cab, people paying hideous amounts for Orange, Matamp etc. when it's just the same wooden box you can get from Avatar.

doomhawk · August 30, 2011, 05:46:39 PM

soooooo...no takers? also forgot to say comes with all the retolxing materials.

Instant Dan · August 30, 2011, 05:53:12 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on August 30, 2011, 05:38:52 PM
It kinda proves a cab is just a cab, people paying hideous amounts for Orange, Matamp etc. when it's just the same wooden box you can get from Avatar.

I kinda learned that the hard way. Don't get me wrong, those Orange, Matamp, Electric cabs are the definition of roadworthy and superior construction. In the end for me, price wise, I was better off just getting that Avatar 'Marshall killer' 4x12 cab with broken in 30 watt and 70 watt Celestions. If I ever started gigging regurarly besides occasional jams, I might get an Orange 2x12 to split the signal between that and my 4x12.

doomhawk · August 30, 2011, 05:58:04 PM

wow who is the douche who just gave me bad karma.

Chovie D · August 30, 2011, 05:59:12 PM

collectors will buy vintage peices, even in bad or incomplete condition, in order to restore and be as original as possble but also because of how they were constructed.

you all seem to be saying there is no difference between modern and vintage cab construction and materials and I would venture to say that is incorrect.

now Im not saying Doomhawk has found a buyer here in me, but i do understand his pricing on this item. Its just not for anyone here.

Hemisaurus · August 30, 2011, 06:05:16 PM

I would venture that the construction of the cabinet would have negligible effect on the sound of it. Vintage drivers yes, vintage cabinet, not so much.

Chovie D · August 30, 2011, 06:09:31 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on August 30, 2011, 06:05:16 PM
I would venture that the construction of the cabinet would have negligible effect on the sound of it. Vintage drivers yes, vintage cabinet, not so much.

so a cab made from pine sounds the same to you as a cab made from particle board?

.

Instant Dan · August 30, 2011, 06:09:40 PM

I guess it would be hard for me to lay down that type of cash for a project cab. A guitar? Depending on what it was, say a Gibson, I would do so but not when there is a 1969/1970 Vintage Fender 2x15 Bassman for sale near me with the original speakers and everything for $300. Granted that is not as iconic as the Marshall cab, I still think you can sell it, but like Chovie D said, I think you are selling to the wrong crowd.

Chovie D · August 30, 2011, 06:12:49 PM

69 fender bassman cabs are not respected...at all.
69 marshall cabs are.

Hemisaurus · August 30, 2011, 07:32:34 PM

Quote from: Chovie D on August 30, 2011, 06:09:31 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on August 30, 2011, 06:05:16 PM
I would venture that the construction of the cabinet would have negligible effect on the sound of it. Vintage drivers yes, vintage cabinet, not so much.

so a cab made from pine sounds the same to you as a cab made from particle board? .

No a cab made of birch ply in the 1970's is going to sound little different from one made of birch ply today.

And a cab made of particle board is going to sound better than one made of pine, any day, providing the drivers etc. are the same.

Chovie D · August 30, 2011, 07:41:44 PM

sure, thats why people are clamoring and paying big bucks to put their reproduction and orginal tweed deluxes into partical board cabinets instead of that horrible sounding pine.

Hemisaurus · August 30, 2011, 07:44:40 PM

Weren't we talking about a Marshall cab? Which would be made of birch? Or did Marshall go through a pine period?

People are sheep, they clamour to do whatever they are told is the cool thing, that's why a company like Bose is so successful.

Chovie D · August 30, 2011, 07:50:58 PM

yes...i just used the example of pine vs particle board cause it was more dramatic than Birch ply versus particle board

you really dont think cab construction matters at all? Im surprised to hear that from you

my philosophy is that EVERY component and how it is constructed matters and affects the sound to some degree

guessing the early marshall combos had pine cabs. bluesbreaker...etc
The way the pine cab is on my deluxe is definetly part of its sound.

Discö Rice · August 30, 2011, 08:00:41 PM

I wouldn't buy a pine cabinet unless I was putting dishes in it. I love birch though. Birch is a killer shell material for drums.

Jake · August 30, 2011, 08:14:10 PM

While I wouldn't give anyone negative karma for doing so, I think that the Marshall in question is priced a bit too high. Probably three or four years ago, it would have been snatched up at that price -- a maybe even fairly quickly.

Maybe I'm wrong. Time will tell. If it sells at that price, doomhawk's got a better feel for the market than I do.

PS - what color levant do you have to finish it? If it's a color besides black, I think that would be the tits and ass. Probably even help it sell faster.

Chovie D · August 30, 2011, 08:24:45 PM

particle board sounds dead to me..it really doesnt to you guys?

the qualities I like aboutmy pine cab are hard ot describe...its like the thing could explode atany minute (in a good way), its sounds light and airy not dead and heavy...hard to describe.

I bow to y'alls greater knowledge of amp building than my own, especially Hemis..but my feeling is there is a reason beyond people being sheep that people still seek out pine cabs for their vintage deluxes and marshall combos.

Bottom line: Pine aside, i just find it hard to beleive im hearing people say cab construction makes no difference

Hemisaurus · August 30, 2011, 08:36:25 PM

Quote from: Chovie D on August 30, 2011, 07:50:58 PM
you really dont think cab construction matters at all? Im surprised to hear that from you

my philosophy is that EVERY component and how it is constructed matters and affects the sound to some degree

I guess I should define a few things.

1. I said the effect of a vintage birch cab vs. a new birch cab was negligible, not non-existent, the wood has had 30-40 years to dry out a bit, it may be a little more resonant, but if you will be putting new drivers in it, the effect they will have on the sound is vast compared to that of the slightly drier birch. Also a 40 year old cab from Florida is going to sound different from one from Arizona, and so on.

2. Construction matters yes, moreso design matters, especially at lower frequencies (and extreme high frequencies), guitar cabs are more of a no-brainer. Put together a box, if it's open back there will be less low frequency as the low frequencies cancel themselves out at the rear of the cab. Close back, more bass, bigger cab, more bass (dependent on the resonance of the speakers). Bass cabs, obviously design and construction matter more, the lower frequencies are harder to reproduce, and the higher sound pressure (Fletcher Munson) is going to cause poorly made joints to rattle.

Whilst there are people that can tell the difference in sounds, those called golden ears they are very few and far between, which is why I tend to rail against the marketing BS at every possible turn, you have to have a Gibson, you have to have point to point circuitry, you have to have a specific type of driver, a specific type of transistor in your fuzz etc. etc. There are so many more important variables than that. The design of a circuit is more important than whether it is implemented in point to point or on a PCB, transistors vary in value widely under the same model number such that the difference between a 2N3904 and a BC549, is as likely as between a 2N3904 and another 2N3904.

Anyways, if you think that you can hear the difference in 40 year old birch, maybe that is the cab for you.

doomhawk · August 30, 2011, 08:47:47 PM

wow amazing... first of all do the math. at least a hundred dollars worth of material in the covering alone, before you ship the shit. and the most collectable of all guitar cabinets - period, in any condition. you can probably get 75 for the pair of handles alone. if nobody is interested fine, bust chops...expected, overpriced however, it is not. i sell gear ALL the time, including on the board, more so on the prior version but thats not the point - i am pretty knowledgeable on current pricing, and can say i have never ripped anyone off. shit in most cases i sell gear for much less than i could get. and by the way marshall prices are much higher now than they have been in many years. and the levant is black, because it more badass.

VOLVO))) · August 30, 2011, 08:58:12 PM

Pine sounds different than particle board. Particle board sounds different from Birch. Birch sounds different from concrete. There is a huge variance in how everything sounds based on what the cabinet is made of. Material, shit, think about cabinet design, think about polyfill, think about ports/vents/detuning, think about different baffling options, think about air escaping from open jacks. There are many factors that can change the tone of a cabinet, and I think the material it's made of is a huge factor, regardless of what anyone says. If you throw some pine bullshit together, with some nails, no glue, and a bunch of air escaping, it's going to sound different from the same cabinet made of birch. The comes into play, the quality of the wood. Cheapo voided Birch ply is going to sound different than high quality voidless birch ply. You think it may be negligible, but it may make all the difference.

Most of those big Silverfaced Sunn 610's are pine. All of my beta combos have been pine.

When you're buying that particular Marshall cab, you're not buying some special birch, or anything. Obviously, it's just a cab, like any other. You're buying the name. Plain, and simple.

Get over it.

Baltar · August 30, 2011, 09:33:11 PM

For the record, if I had $400 lying around I would totally buy it. I also bumped Doomhawk one karma point, so there. It's a good deal and I like fixer-uppers.

Jake · August 30, 2011, 09:37:27 PM

Quote from: doomhawk on August 30, 2011, 08:47:47 PM
i am pretty knowledgeable on current pricing, and can say i have never ripped anyone off. shit in most cases i sell gear for much less than i could get. and by the way marshall prices are much higher now than they have been in many years. and the levant is black, because it more badass.

I meant no disrespect and I'm know you are extremely knowledgeble, but vintage gear across the board has taken a hit. Some cases even a big hit. Look at '58 Juniors and '70s Les Paul Deluxes – those are selling for about to half of what they were at the peak a few years ago.

If you take a gander at the annual Vintage Guitar Price Guide from the last few years, they say right in the intro that there are double-digit decreases (on top of double-digit from the prior year) on all listed items, including Marshall. I've had this disussion many times with the owner of a pretty established vintage store out here in Vegas. So much of people's wealth is/was tied up in their homes that demand has shrunk.

Like I said, you very well might be right. The guy with four extra Pre-Rola Celestions and who ain't afraid of a bit of elbow grease would certainly sprout a chubby if he ran across your post. And I sincerely hope you connect.

Regarding the tonal differences between a vintage Marshall and say, something new build to near same spec with the exact same drivers – there are none. And by none, I mean .01% tonal coloration that is dectectable by .00000001% of human beings. Eric Johnson claims to be one of them.

Hemisaurus · August 30, 2011, 09:54:05 PM

I think there would be a different sound in a pine combo, because it's not a rigid wood, I'd imagine it flexes more which would muffle the sound and give it a more mellow tone, at least for the same thickness of wood. That could be construed as poor construction, but so many things in the electrification of the guitar that are from poor design, are actually something now sought after.