Chovie D

[VOLVO)))]

A while back you told me about your tele-behind-the-nut-pedal-steel lick thingy, I use the ever living fuck out of it now. Are there anymore neat things like that? Please, share your wisdom!

[Chovie D]

 

glad your getting good mileage off that one. easy and effective right? and people are impressed when you play behind the nut. I always thought it might be good for people to share some of those things here once in a while.  "weekly tip" or some crap, but I'm no teacher.

Yeah i got a bunch of other stuff I could share, but no guitar right now makes em hard to explain. when I get home if  have time I will explain a couple more including the one you are talking about for those that missed it

[eyeprod]

I'm interested.

Sorta leery about using tricks just for the sake of it, but if it sounds cool then I'm in.

[Lumpy]

What about bending down? Bend the note up a whole step (before picking). Pick, and then release the bend. That's kinda fake-pedal steel. If you use that in the middle of a lead line, it can sound cool.

I think the real trick is to just keep playing for like 20 years.

[Chovie D]

What about bending down? Bend the note up a whole step (before picking). Pick, and then release the bend. That's kinda fake-pedal steel. If you use that in the middle of a lead line, it can sound cool.

I think the real trick is to just keep playing for like 20 years.

yes, thats a typical country faux steel move. pre bend, then release. Thats actually a really hard one for me to master. Its just hard to prebend quickly if your going up and down the neck with em.

It definetly helps to play for a long time. I been playing like thirty years now and am only recently learning new stuff. i stagnated for decades.
I wish someone had sat me down and showed me a few things way back when, or that I had had the money for lessons.
I took a few lesson last year, it was great, even after thirty years theres tons more to learn.

[Lumpy]

If you bend a note on B string and hold, then play the same fret on E, then release your bend on B, it sounds all countrified. (3 played notes: bend up B and hold, fret E, release bend on B). It's not as hard when you are anchored in one spot on the neck, and your bend up was actually played instead of silent.

Same thing works on G and B strings, but B string needs to be fretted up a half step higher than G.

I learned that on a "Play Country Guitar" DVD (don't tell anybody). Everything else was way over my head.

[Chovie D]

the trick is getting those to move up and down the neck with speed, even moderate speed so you can go "be-dow, be-dow, be-dow down the neck. Then we are talkin pure country corn.

The important things for country playing are (in my VERY limited understanding of it)
1. learning to play major scale leads (hint, your minor scale patterns wil be major if you move them down three frets from where youd normally play them)
2. learning to pick with your fingers AND a pick at the same time (its kind of like a bassist's 'popping" or a banjo players "clawhammer")
3. doublestops, easy and so useful even in rock. LEARN THESE if you learn nothing else country and could give a shiot aboutn country you'll still get tons of mileage out of em and they are so cool.
4. and the bends we've been discussing.

for non country players:
the things i think  are cool that many bypass or dont know about are:
1. octave lead playing. Hendrix did this all the time. youtube it. jazz guys will play entire songs moving octave patterns around the neck. Girl from Impanina, or Hendrix Villanova Junction or Third stone from the sun, shitloads of octave leads.
2. Rakes. Stevie Ray Vaugh was a rake-a-holic. He is to rakes what Zakk Wylde is to pinch harmonics.
Great way to punctuate the first few notes of your solo and make it snap.  forward rakes, reverse rakes. learn em, they will serve you well.


fuckload of stuff , hard to explain without a guitar or tab.

[eyeprod]

that octave trick is something I figured out over 10 years ago. I liked to use it for occasional lead bursts and melody lines. Thing is, I haven't used it in about as many years, but I've been thinking that I need to bust it out soon.

[spookstrickland]

One thing about finger picking I just recently discovered is that the harder you pick the strings dig your pads in and snap to the nail you get a really good countrified picking sound.  I had always been kind of a delicate finger style player but the more I really dig in and make the strings grunt the better it sounds if that makes any sense.  It's really hard to put it into words.

[chille01]

Wow. I'm gonna bump this one. Mainly because I was going to start a thread called "Hey Chovie D" or somesuch thing. But then I searched the word "country", to make sure it hadn't been discussed before. Turns out it has, under much the same title I was thinking.

In any event, Chovie (and whoever else of course), being the resident country voice... Do you have any recommendations for good books or videos to pick up some cool country guitar tricks, or even more importantly the basics? Websites are cool, but I'm actually thinking of this partly as a Christmas gift for a friend, so something I can actually purchase and wrap up pretty is preferred. I have an interest myself as well, but that works out since he's the other guitarist in my band. Both fans of old school country stuff like Waylon etc., and also the country rock kind of stuff, the Stones more country sounding tunes etc. etc.

[Metal and Beer]

The important things for country playing are (in my VERY limited understanding of it)
1. learning to play major scale leads (hint, your minor scale patterns wil be major if you move them down three frets from where youd normally play them)

I learned that from playing along to Keith Richards way back when (when in "A", index finger on the second fret instead of fifth, etc.) and I still kinda cringe sometimes when I hear a pentatonic fella play a lick in the minor position when it sounds like it should be in the major one...

I think Keith got that from James Burton and Scotty Moore

[RacerX]

The important things for country playing are (in my VERY limited understanding of it)
1. learning to play major scale leads (hint, your minor scale patterns wil be major if you move them down three frets from where youd normally play them)

I learned that from playing along to Keith Richards way back when (when in "A", index finger on the second fret instead of fifth, etc.) and I still kinda cringe sometimes when I hear a pentatonic fella play a lick in the minor position when it sounds like it should be in the major one...

I think Keith got that from James Burton and Scotty Moore

Yep. A lot of Southern rockers picked up on that shit, too. Even some heavier shit like Mississippi Queen uses the "4 frets down box."

[chille01]

So, is this 4 frets down box the same scale pattern (IE; minor pentatonic/blues scale), except now I guess it would be major pentatonic.  I'm sure I could google this in about 10 seconds, but you guys seem to know the answer already.

[Chovie D]

Hey sunn0)))), possible to change thread title to something more pertinent, like 'country guitar licks"? no biggie, juts would make more sense than my name.

Chille for you or your freind for xmas, i can recommend Redd Volkaerts Tele Twang video. Its a concert AND some lessons.
Its also where I got the lick that started this thread. Its more concert than lessons tho. i think he gives you a diozen or so licks at the end of the dvd.
http://www.amazon.com/Redd-Volkaert-TeleTwang/dp/B000JJSJN2

If you are both Waylon fans, i highly recommend  this documentary. Best part is the lost outlaw concert they tacked on the end. It is truly an awesome performance, especially if you like pedal steel. This one is probably a better rental since gthere are no lessons and your not likely to watch that concert over and over, tho i have actuially.
http://www.amazon.com/Waylon-Renegade-Outlaw-Chet-Atkins/dp/B0000640TK/ref=sr_1_4?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1323976172&sr=1-4


as for learning in general, I found a guy who i thought was the best country player in town and took lessons from him. He was a horrible teacher but I got what I wanted from him after a couple lessons and stopped. My knowledge is pretty limited, im stil not a good country player, and my knowledge of theory is even poorer, but again i would say the things to look into and work on are:
country bends, doublestops, and major scale licks.

Theres probably so much shit on youtube now that instructional vids are not necessary but that volkaert one is awful nice as a gift.

Heres a free lesson from Redd I found on youtube . Redd is Merlehaggards guitarist btw, and Jake, he posts on the SGF.

[Chovie D]

I watched that lesson and he never tells you what the doublestop notes (or shapes as I think of them)are.
If you cant find it elsewhere I can eventually tab out simple doublstop scales on the top three strings when I have time. They are super easy.

Doublestops  are very useful for your rock soloing too, Hendrix used alot of em. hendrix did alot of stuff..haha.
He borrowed techniques from country and jazz (check out his octave playing) and just went off on em.

[Discö Rice]

Heres a free lesson from Redd I found on youtube . Redd is Merlehaggards guitarist btw, and Jake, he posts on the SGF.

Good lesson! Much obliged.

So what's the "Behind the nut pedal steel thing"?

[chille01]

Hell yeah, I love Waylon.  I've got this DVD, and its great: http://www.amazon.com/Waylon-Jennings-Nashville-Rebel/dp/B000HEWEPS/ref=pd_bxgy_mov_img_b

Of course, anything with Ralph Mooney is going to have some great pedal steel on it.  I've long said the steel solo on "Amanda" is one of the best, most simple and tasteful solos ever, steel or otherwise.  Shit... I guess he just died this year.

Will look into the Redd stuff.  Merle is a-ok in my book too.

[Chovie D]

lets see if I can remember without a guitar in front of me.
It can only be done on a telecaster , due to the string depth behind the nut.

5th fret E string, then B string (stacatto muted  chicken pickin, I use my fingers, in particulary thumb and middle and pull upwards with the middle on the e string for a snappy sound , clawhammer stylee)

so anyway.
5th fret E string, then B string.
second fret (could be 3rd fret, no guitar here and cant recall right now) E string then B string
open E string then B string
(buck-a buck-a buck-a..it should sound like hehe)
B string open let it ring this time, then fret behind the nut to bend the open string upwards and dont let go.
Open E string muted stacatto as above.
Then release the second string bend youve beeen holding and let the open B string ring like a pulloff.
hard to explain. The only video I could find of the technique is this guy haha  
check it out around 4:30 or so he starts doing some behind the nut bends.

[Chovie D]

Hell yeah, I love Waylon.  I've got this DVD, and its great: http://www.amazon.com/Waylon-Jennings-Nashville-Rebel/dp/B000HEWEPS/ref=pd_bxgy_mov_img_b

Of course, anything with Ralph Mooney is going to have some great pedal steel on it.  I've long said the steel solo on "Amanda" is one of the best, most simple and tasteful solos ever, steel or otherwise.  Shit... I guess he just died this year.

Will look into the Redd stuff.  Merle is a-ok in my book too.

wow you know who Ralph mooney is! awesome. Yeah unfortunately he died this past year. one of the all time greats and he's jutst smoking in that video i recommend, its Moon intensive 
Some Ralph Mooney stories...

Mooney was quite the character, making his first "pedal steel" out of coat hangers and barn door hinges attached to a fender d8 lap steel.
One day his garage burned down with his steel in it, he buried the burnt guitar in the arizona desert to "confuse future archeologists".
once he came home from a gig drunk , was carrying his steel back into the house and stopped and puked on it. next moring he took a garden hose and hosed it off and kept on rolling.

[chille01]

According to the Waylon autobiography, he also told Johnny Cash to fuck off... twice! You'd have to read the book to get the full story in it's funniest form, but the jist is that at a backstage party Johnny introduced himself as a big fan, and drunk Mooney told him to fuck off. Then years later on a plane, Johnny introduced himself again, saying something about "remember that time..." and Mooney said something to the effect of "yeah I remember. I told you to FUCK OFF!"

[Chovie D]

lol.

Johnny Cash almost never used steel (if ever).
I have gotten the feeling from a few comments Ive read online that there is some resentment towards people like Cash or Glen Campbell who just refused to use steel guitars over the years. But Mooney was known to have a good sense of humor so he was probably just drunk or ribbin Mr. Cash or both.

[chille01]

Now that you mention it, I CAN'T think of a Cash song with steel on it.  I think that's what I like so much about that old 70's Waylon stuff.  He had a crack band.  Between Mooney on the steel, Richie Albright on drums, and whoever it was on bass and acoustic.  Plus the harp/harmonica added so much to the sound too. Really carried the melody and added to it.  And of course Waylon himself was no slouch when it came to the telecaster licks either. 

That's kinda what we're aiming for... slipping some country into our usual balls out rock and roll stuff.  But country with a bit of a subdued rock backbeat.  I think it would sound hokey if we tried to do straight country like Cash or the Statler Bros or what have you.  It will be more natural if we aim somewhere between Waylon and Drive by Truckers or Crazy Horse.  People forget that the whole "Outlaw" thing wasn't just a marketing ploy.  Those old Waylon records sound safe now adays, but at the time they were a giant fuck you to Nashville, which considered them WAY too rock and roll.

[Chovie D]

well country rock guitar is fairly different from trad country guitar in that you are allowed minor penta solos, SOME distortion, and steel is not required (tho it is nice). Instead of steel , I hear alot of bottlenck slide in country rock. You might try and pick up a few bottleneck licks if your into that sort of thing. i know a few but its definetly not my forte. Or you could get a cheap lap steel, or both.

Trad country guitar...if you even turn on a tubescreamer they will cover their ears and unplug your amp mid song.

Im a huge neil young fan and i really like DBT as well. To my ears theres not a whole lotta country guitar in those country rock acts.
I spent the past 2 years in a  country rock band , playing both steel and guitar. I did not enjoy playing the steel in that band nearly as much as in the more trad country bands Ive played in. i guess my rock repitoire on steel is limited enough to make that task rather tedious as I ended up playing alot of the same stuff ad naseum. My guitar duties consited of mostly replacement-esque trad chord riffage with tubescreamer or tweed like mellow gain, and the occasional high gain rock solo
It was fun at first...

[VOLVO)))]

Ive been learnin' how to do some chicken pickin' lotsa steel bends and whatnot... i use it everywhere, sounds great. Cant do country rhythm at all...

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[Worthless Willie]

I play in a honky tonk band...love that shit.