The Pro Co Rat, why is it so popular?

Instant Dan · March 16, 2011, 07:24:48 PM

Apologize for the n00b question.

I have honestly only heard a few guys using it, Nick from Elder, Black Pyramid, Buzzo, and Sunn. I guess what makes it lusted after over, IE, a big muff or fuzzface?

Wesogkan · March 16, 2011, 07:48:40 PM

I like it, but won't use it because my amp will sound almost exactly like Bongzilla with a Rat going through it.

VOLVO))) · March 16, 2011, 07:59:01 PM

I hate that shit. It NAILS someone elses tone, well enough for someone to call you on it. I've had a love-hate with the RAT for a long while, just because of that.

inductorguitars · March 16, 2011, 09:30:16 PM

I've heard the rat sound good and bad, it really depends on the amp. Tho I like my women like I like my bowling balls, Heavy with big holes. So the Big Muff for me.

hayseed · March 16, 2011, 11:42:45 PM

I first heard a Rat used for a bass setup in the late 80's and that is the tone i have tried to get with my bass setup. Lots of low end, gritty distortion , and lots of definition in the notes you play. However, my Rat 2 does NOT sound like that one from the late 80's at all, especially through a bass setup! I have had mine for a few years and i like for my guitar rig to spice up leads or when i want that extra punch. They are very cool pedals due the simplicity of them mostly.

liquidsmoke · March 17, 2011, 12:04:16 AM

I used to have a Keeley modded one that could do high gain crunchy heavy metal along with more stoner/sludge sounds and it was good at hard/heavy rock and overdrive tones too. I can't remember why I sold it

Mike_Sims · March 17, 2011, 01:32:31 AM

The Rat seems to me almost like a cross between fuzz & distortion. It's a lot "tighter" than a big muff or fuzz face. I have a couple, but I still love my muff the most. There's a certain tone I get from my muff (a mid range roaring/growling/howling kinda sound) that I can't get with any other pedal.

beardofcthulhu · March 17, 2011, 06:02:07 AM

Trey Azagthoth used them, and that's good enough for me. Thanks Hayseed!

LogicalFrank · March 17, 2011, 10:05:59 AM

I have used one for years and the only ways I see myself not using it is if I buy a high-end clone or end up getting an amp that has enough distortion on it's own. To me, it is just a very natural feeling distortion which cleans up well based on guitar volume or even just using a light touch w/ my right hand but it also has a very aggressive bite to it. It can do sludge and fast palm muted stuff all on the same setting and I haven't found a lot of distortions that can do that well.

grimniggzy · March 17, 2011, 10:18:43 AM

Love it for bass. I have one from the 90's thats so beat to shit its almost all brown except for the face. But I LOVE the tone. My Big Muff's (USSR & USA) have long since been retired by this beast, not to mention it's outperformed a few Boutique guy's & every other dirt pedal I've EVER had on my board. It does everything from nice Overdrive all the way up to Fully Saturated Distortion & its the last one that remains.

The secret for me is not so much the pedal itself its the way it works with others pushing them or taking from them and then pusing it out with the Volume dimed. The key is the settings I set the Filter fairly high,
Distortion to taste and as said before Volume dimed.

My main tone is P Bass > Old QTron > 90's RAT II > My Sunn Concert Basses Power Amp Input & 15"s
& I Love It

hayseed · March 17, 2011, 11:10:53 AM

AND nobody mentioned that it glows in the goddamned dark!

I believe that is the number 1 reason for its popularity!

VOLVO))) · March 17, 2011, 11:12:24 AM

Quote from: hayseed on March 17, 2011, 11:10:53 AM
AND nobody mentioned that it glows in the goddamned dark!

I believe that is the number 1 reason for its popularity!

LED's do that.

hayseed · March 17, 2011, 11:58:56 AM

Quote from: SunnO))) on March 17, 2011, 11:12:24 AM
Quote from: hayseed on March 17, 2011, 11:10:53 AM
AND nobody mentioned that it glows in the goddamned dark!

I believe that is the number 1 reason for its popularity!

LED's do that.

Not mine. It glows with pure voodoo magic!

Chovie D · March 17, 2011, 01:26:23 PM

the lm308 rat is my favorite distortion. fuzzface and big muff are fuzzes. when i want fuzz I use a fuzz, when i want distortion I use distortion. sorry for the nitpicking but there is a big diff betwen OD, fuzz and distortion. what makes the rat a great distortion? Not fizzy, dynamic response, versatile from slight grit to full on distortion, it just sounds better to me than a Dist+, a boss, my way huge, all of which sound great in their own right. I knew a guy who would use them on vocals for juts a slight bit of grit and it sounded really great.

hayseed · March 17, 2011, 02:15:58 PM

Quote from: Chovie D on March 17, 2011, 01:26:23 PM
the lm308 rat is my favorite distortion. fuzzface and big muff are fuzzes. when i want fuzz I use a fuzz, when i want distortion I use distortion. sorry for the nitpicking but there is a big diff betwen OD, fuzz and distortion. what makes the rat a great distortion? Not fizzy, dynamic response, versatile from slight grit to full on distortion, it just sounds better to me than a Dist+, a boss, my way huge, all of which sound great in their own right. I knew a guy who would use them on vocals for juts a slight bit of grit and it sounded really great.

^^^ ABSOLUTE TRUTH! Last nite myself and beardofchutulu were jamming and we utilized all 3: my RAT2, Bass Big Muff, and an Ibanez Tubescreamer. I thought that i wanted the Muff or Rat for my bass sound but the Tubescreamer blew them both out of the water! It preserved most of my low end, definition of individual notes and gave me the "growl" that i wanted. The Muff was way to fuzzy for me but great for sludgy doom stuff(i am going for more of a Lemmy sound right now). The Rat had a very "classic" metal distortion but it ate my low end. It did however sound awesome with beardofchutulu's Peavey VTM60 setup, better that the Tubescreamer in fact! Needless to say we swapped pedals for a bit. I would like to find a really good bass OD though.

Nothing wrong with being picky...more players should understand the differences between the 3 and playing them next to each other is a great way to decide which is the sound you want.

(Edit:BTW- In no way do i think it makes anybody stupid to not know which sound is which. I never realized the extreme difference until i had one of each in front of me.)

Instant Dan · March 17, 2011, 02:33:50 PM

Well I never knew it was a true distortion pedal. It always sounded like a hybrid of a fuzz/distortion and not a overdrive/distortion pedal.

beardofcthulhu · March 17, 2011, 06:16:16 PM

If I had to choose between my TS10 and the Rat right now, I'd go Rat. The Screamer is nice, does a good job of rounding out the sound...but doesn't really add anything. the Rat...hoo boy. I can now get the 3 sounds I need out of a single channel amp. Rat wins.

LogicalFrank · March 17, 2011, 06:54:41 PM

Quote from: Instant Dan on March 17, 2011, 02:33:50 PM
Well I never knew it was a true distortion pedal. It always sounded like a hybrid of a fuzz/distortion and not a overdrive/distortion pedal.

It gets pretty fuzzy on some settings, esp. w/ gain/distortion cranked up so if it sounds like a fuzz/distortion hybrid to you, it is. Though I've always thought of it as a straight distortion which can be used as a sort of gnarly OD w/ the gain turned down. So... damn versatile pedal, I guess.

Chovie D · March 17, 2011, 07:11:57 PM

My understanding of the differences is fairly vague, google could do a better job of explaining it.

My basic understanding is this:
overdrive(tubescreamer)-I use it when I want a stones or replacement like tone which these days is ALL of my rythm playing. It adds grit but doesnt just overly color your tone. The idea is you are just pushing your tubes a little bit 'overdriving' them into slight distortion. I like to set the gain very low and the level very high to acheive this sound. When you set the gain too high it goes into fizz more. These effect are usually but not always opamp based (chip)
STevie Ray Vaugh would be a famous overdrive user example.

Distortion (Rat)-I use this when I am playing any kind of hard rock or metal. Its tighter and smoother than fuzz and handles chords very well. it colors your tone almost completely. I beleive that technically the diff between fuzz and distortion is the waveform with fuzz being a square waveform and distortion being rounded. not sure bout that. these are usally opamp (chip) based effect. Rat has a chp, lm308 to be specific

Fuzz- is a strange one and they vary alot. I use fuzz for psych and Doom. They do not handle chords well other than perhaps powerchords. They are "looser" and wilder than distortions. They can be very raspy or splatty (fuzztone, fuzz factory, fuzzrite)which isnt smething i associate with a good distortion, but other ones can be very smooth (superfuzz, fuzzface). These effects are usally transistor based (no chip)

so thats my limited understanding and how I use them.
If I want to sound really pscyhedelic (single notes)or lay down huge slabs of doom (powerchords)...its fuzz. If I want to be tight and crisp or play any knd of chord with more than two notes its distortion. If I want slightly gritty grind its a tubescreamer. depending on your amp a tubescreamer can get fairly aggressive and yeild ac/dc like tones. You see angus uses no pedals so its just the sound of an ovedriven tube amp, which is what a tubescreamer does, it 'overdrives"...a tubescreamer will alllow you to get that tone without cranking your marshall to tthe top. a fine example can be heard if you have an epi valve jr. and a tubescreamer. Valve Jr. at noon on the volume dial, tubescreamer at noon on the gain dial, and level at about 2 or 3 = instant ac/dc.

Like i said tho, youtube or google could probably give a much better analsis than myself.

theres a couple effects i cant put my finger on.. blues driver, duncan twin tube..what the hell are they? like frank siad I guess whatever you want them to be.

LogicalFrank · March 18, 2011, 10:55:19 AM

That is an excellent description of the differences... It had actually never occurred to me that you could define the effect type by the type of circuit it used.

Baltar · March 18, 2011, 11:45:19 AM

I have the Stomp Under Foot Screaming Panda. It's a cross between an LM308 Rat and a Russian Muff. I looked up the number on the IC chip and it did list as being extremely similar to the LM308. It's a cool sound and I can get clean boost, Marshally O.D., and full on high-gain Dist. out of it. I've played the Keeley and Ruetz(sp?) modded Rats and they're pretty cool too. I lived in Kalamazoo, Mich where they used to be made and you can find Rat pedals all over town there.

Mike_Sims · March 20, 2011, 04:13:44 AM

Quote from: Instant Dan on March 17, 2011, 02:33:50 PM
Well I never knew it was a true distortion pedal. It always sounded like a hybrid of a fuzz/distortion and not a overdrive/distortion pedal.

Same here.. Then again, they call the Big Muff PI a distortion pedal... I don't know... whatever.

Wesogkan · March 20, 2011, 09:09:32 PM

Quote from: liquidsmoke on March 17, 2011, 12:04:16 AM
I used to have a Keeley modded one that could do high gain crunchy heavy metal along with more stoner/sludge sounds and it was good at hard/heavy rock and overdrive tones too. I can't remember why I sold it

Perhaps I just need to try a modified one to get a different sound, I've only tried someone's right out of the box...aren't the pre-1992 models the best to mess with circuit-wise?

grimniggzy · March 21, 2011, 09:28:16 AM

Quote from: Wesogkan on March 20, 2011, 09:09:32 PM
Quote from: liquidsmoke on March 17, 2011, 12:04:16 AM
I used to have a Keeley modded one that could do high gain crunchy heavy metal along with more stoner/sludge sounds and it was good at hard/heavy rock and overdrive tones too. I can't remember why I sold it

Perhaps I just need to try a modified one to get a different sound, I've only tried someone's right out of the box...aren't the pre-1992 models the best to mess with circuit-wise?

If your going to mod it. Keeley says...
"We will still mod Rats with serial numbers under 300,000 (pre-early 2008) for $65. If your Rat's serial is over 300,000, we'll mod it, but we have to charge $99 because of the extra work these units require."

But really, if you get one from the early 90's I don't see why you'd even have to mess w/ the circuit at all.
I use one from that time un-modified for bass.

LogicalFrank · March 21, 2011, 10:30:44 AM

The Keeley mods make it a more versatile pedal. I am not sure it necessarily sounds better but it sounds good and a little different, plus more variations.