Basic developmental stages for a band

[agent of change]

So I've been playing in bands for something like almost 25 years, starting in Chicago, and now in Asheville NC, a MUCH smaller city.

After putting the band together, writing some good songs, rehearsing, finding the right band name, playing some local shows, recording a demo, and making some stickers, I find myself unsure of what else to do, or how to proceed. In Chicago, we just kept playing all over town, in different neighborhoods, and slowly made a name for ourselves. Until we headlined the Double Door and then broke up.

So how else do you gain an audience? I don't know what to do other than try to keep playing with different bands to expose ourselves (ha) to their crowds, and do some small regional tours where we won't lose a bunch of money. We're not looking to get famous or anything, but I haven't really taken it farther than some small local acclaim in the past. Nor have most bands I've been in even made it this far without imploding.

Make a video? Send promo packs to small labels? Just play shows and let karma unfold?

[Danny G]

All of the above.

And try to get on any local cable access shows and radio.

And printing your own CDs in lieu of a label if you can afford too. Invest in several t-shirt designs. Merch sales can help make small tours money-making ventures.

Try to open for bigger regional/national touring bands.

[black]

^^all of that^

also;

House parties and University sponsored music events may not pay (or pay much), but seem to really accelerate getting one's name out there. And opening for touring bands--large or small--will help land good gigs in those cat's hometowns once you hit the road. (providing of course y'all get along and enjoy each other's music)

I'm sure a video and/or something clever on social media sites can boost interest and awareness of your band as well.

[mortlock]

yes, play all the shows you can. however in my experience, you can over expose. ive seen local bands in my area play out entirely too much. people become apathetic. its a fine line. t shirts are huge, ive seen them sell better than music..

do the long weekenders. friday and sat in near by towns/cities. give shit away. people love free shit. stickers and buttons.

everyone wants people to like their band, but the scene [every scene] is so over saturated that its watered down and people dont give a fuck.

play because you love playing and have a good time. ive actually had people come up to us after shows and said they liked us because we 'looked' like we were having fun.. they liked the music, but it was made better because we were enjoying ourselves playing to the 8 people in the room and it made an impact. no one wants to see a band just going through the motions..  

[Dylan Thomas]

This is all good advice.  Giving shit away is always a sure fire way to get your name out there.  Don't try to make money at first (don't lose money either!!!!).  Print stickers and put them up in the towns that you play.  Put them all over your hometown.  Have cool designs done up, and print different stickers.  Same with t-shirts.  Don't think of them as these huge money-makers at first, look at them as advertising.  Same with your CD's/demos.  Print them up on the cheap with cool artwork, sell them at a reasonable price, and give plenty of them away.  You want people to talk about your music, you want your t-shirts to be talking points.  You want the name of your band to in the air, something that people know about, even if it's just in some nebulous way.  It's all about creating that buzz.  If people keep seeing the name, and hearing it talked about, eventually they become curious and will check it out.

Your live show, you're basically selling an experience.  You want to blow people away, and then give them something concrete to remember that experience, be it a free sticker, a CD, a T-shirt, a 7 inch, whatever.  At that point, they are not only just a fan or a customer, they're also someone who is actively spreading the word.  That's what you want, you want to be THEIR band.  I knew I was doing well when I'd go to a bigger show, like the Carcass reunion, and see a bunch of people wearing my band's t-shirt.

Everything that you've printed/pressed/put your name all over, get these things out there beyond where you're playing. Send them to blogs that cover the kind of music that you're playing.  If the blogs write a positive review, or give you props, or play you on their internet radio show or anything like that, that's great.  Develop a rapport with them, and ask the blog if they will interview you.  Expand your network this way - every time you release new music, you should have a whole network of people who you contact, and who will give it more exposure.  This takes time to develop, though it will expand your reach and influence exponentially.


Do show trades with out of town bands that you like.  You set up the show, promote, and support them when they're in your town.  They set up the show, promote, and support when you're in their town.  Help out smaller touring bands when they roll through your town, even if it just means putting them in contact with your contacts, with the promise that they'll do the same for you when you are in theirs.

Develop a rapport with local and out of town promoters.  Get to the know the major players in "the scene."  Do them favors when you can, like fill in when someone cancels, or help them to promote a show.

Do splits with way, way out of town bands that you dig.  Bands from other countries and such.  The cross-promotion is very powerful.  All your fans are exposed to their music, and all of their fans are exposed to yours.

House parties are great.  Some of the best shows I've ever played have been packed house parties.  Same with college shows, those are usually really fun, and well attended.  Sometimes those do pay well, as colleges generally have huge budgets, and shelling out $500 for a rock and roll band is often something they have in the cards.  Opening for bigger touring bands is obviously a great way to spread the word, though there's a lot of competition for those shows.  If you're doing things right and have a good buzz going about you, often you'll be asked to play these shows.


Start with smaller regional tours, keep the drives reasonably close, find good places to crash, and push the merch.  Explain to the audiences, really honestly and directly, "Hey, we're a small band from such-and-such.  We're on tour right now.  If you dig the show and have got some extra scratch, it would really help if you bought some of our merchandise tonight.  Gas ain't cheap, and this is a labor of love.  It's really nice not coming home broke every time we take the show on the road, to go out and play for people like you."  I don't think that there's any shame in that.  Some people seem to think so, that you shouldn't have to "beg" people to buy your merch.  Screw that, it's more a matter of putting your needs out their very clearly, being able to do so is a very powerful tool in seeing those needs adequately met.


From there, if you're doing things well, labels should start approaching you.  Any time a label puts out a band's music, it's a bit of a gamble.  They're more likely to invest in a band that already KNOWS how to do all of these things, knows how to sell its products, knows how to make money on tour, and knows how to promote itself.  That's a sure bet for a label.  Once you're working with labels, then there comes promotion companies, touring companies, festivals, all kinds of other doors open up for you.  It's a matter of how far you're willing to take it...

[RacerX]

It's a matter of how far you're willing to take it...

I'd suggest not taking "it" to the point of an online meltdown. Otherwise, no matter what you try to do, people will still remember you as "that online meltdown dude" long after your old band is playing European festivals in with your replacement fronting the band.

[black]

...colleges generally have huge budgets, and shelling out $500 for a rock and roll band is often something they have in the cards...

I was wrong in lumping them in with house parties (which yes, sometimes can earn you a few frogskins).
Some of the better paydays I've has were at University sponsored events. As dinger pointed out, they actually have entertainment budgets.

All in all, I'd say there is some good advice flowing here.

[Dylan Thomas]

...colleges generally have huge budgets, and shelling out $500 for a rock and roll band is often something they have in the cards...

I was wrong in lumping them in with house parties (which yes, sometimes can earn you a few frogskins).
Some of the better paydays I've has were at University sponsored events. As dinger pointed out, they actually have entertainment budgets.

All in all, I'd say there is some good advice flowing here.

You'd be surprised, I've played some shows at colleges where it's basically a house show, some kids got a room to act as a venue and asked some bands to play.

Other times, some of the biggest payouts have come from Universities.

When I was starting out, a dude much wiser than myself once said, you take a show for one of four reasons.

1) For the cash
2) For the exposure
3) To play with a band you really dig and want to play with
4) To help someone out

In an ideal world, you play all shows that accomplish all of those things; the best shows combine all four of those elements.

I feel like college/university parties can be some of the best for the first two.  Usually great exposure, and sometimes a really fat guarantee.

[mortlock]

I need to jump on the college tour..

[spookstrickland]

...colleges generally have huge budgets, and shelling out $500 for a rock and roll band is often something they have in the cards...

I was wrong in lumping them in with house parties (which yes, sometimes can earn you a few frogskins).
Some of the better paydays I've has were at University sponsored events. As dinger pointed out, they actually have entertainment budgets.

All in all, I'd say there is some good advice flowing here.

so what would be a good way for us older folks to make connections or inroads to playing college parties?  I'm worried if we go hang out at the local college they'll call the cops on us LOL


You'd be surprised, I've played some shows at colleges where it's basically a house show, some kids got a room to act as a venue and asked some bands to play.

Other times, some of the biggest payouts have come from Universities.

When I was starting out, a dude much wiser than myself once said, you take a show for one of four reasons.

1) For the cash
2) For the exposure
3) To play with a band you really dig and want to play with
4) To help someone out

In an ideal world, you play all shows that accomplish all of those things; the best shows combine all four of those elements.

I feel like college/university parties can be some of the best for the first two.  Usually great exposure, and sometimes a really fat guarantee.

[spookstrickland]

Shit I screwed up the quote feature on that last one, my question was:

so what would be a good way for us older folks to make connections or inroads to playing college parties?  I'm worried if we go hang out at the local college they'll call the cops on us LOL

[jibberish]

show up in a national lampoon's animal house death mobile, then streak, then eat live goldfish.

they will demand that your band plays their parties.

[agent of change]

Shit I screwed up the quote feature on that last one, my question was:

so what would be a good way for us older folks to make connections or inroads to playing college parties?  I'm worried if we go hang out at the local college they'll call the cops on us LOL

We're playing a gig with a band that has some/all members from the main local college, so that's the only idea I've got - hopefully make nice with them and get invited to play some college parties. Dunno if their wimminz will like our music, but ya never know...

[Andrew Blakk]

I must say Dylan pretty much nailed it imo. 

[Dylan Thomas]

I must say Dylan pretty much nailed it imo. 

Thanks!!! 

so what would be a good way for us older folks to make connections or inroads to playing college parties?  I'm worried if we go hang out at the local college they'll call the cops on us LOL

That's the tricky one, and I should have mentioned this initially.  Play with younger bands, preferably ones with a lot of friends.  Always be on the lookout for bands that are just starting up, young and hungry, with just a few shows or a demo/home recording under their belt.  When you're 35+, it's hard to get your friends out to late night shows at dingy bars and such.  They've got work, a wife, a family, it's not feasible to expect all of your friends to make every show.  It's just not.

Younger bands, they DRAW.  Use that to your advantage.  Put together a bill and put one of these bands right before or after your set.  If you're putting together a local bill, keep in mind that it's ideal to be somewhere in the middle.  A three band bill, always pick 2nd if you have the choice.  Four bands, take 2nd or 3rd.  Don't feel you need to "headline" until you're enough of a vet that you can keep a decent crowd until closing time.  Otherwise, you'll find yourself "deadlining", playing to the bartender, door guy, sound guy, and whatever friends you have who are loyal enough to stick around until the wee hours.  When you play in the middle, you have the advantage of potentially playing to the people there for the bands before and after you.  Going first or last, you lose that.

It can also be advantageous to open for two out of town bands on tour who ask you to set up a show, giving them the ideal 2nd and 3rd spot, and securing a solid veteran "headliner" to keep people in the venue during their sets.  The advantage here is that these bands will recognize and remember that you did them solid, but I digress as usual....


Back to younger bands - once again, develop rapport with younger bands that seem to have any sort of scene or draw around them, or are "in the know."  Sometimes they're not even "great" bands, just good guys and gals that their friends will go out to see.  Sometimes these bands can draw 100 people.  Ask them to play with you.  Develop friendships with them, talk music/gear/shop with them.  Talking amps and gear is a great way to break the ice and build a connection, it's pretty universal in any musicians circle - look what forum we're in right now.

Go to their shows and see what it's all about.  Most likely some of these bands play the local colleges and house parties. 

Check these shows out, drink and party with these people, get to know what kind of opportunities are available to you.  Learn who holds the keys to which doors in these scenes.  That last bit is really the secret to any kind of success in a band....


When you're first starting up as a band, you have so many opportunities all around you, it's just a matter of learning about them and seeing them all.  There's a lot of routes you can go, and the choices you make early on will significantly affect the way your band develops, and what the doors open up for you in the future.  Most importantly, don't dwell on your failures, or what opportunities didn't pan out - this will happen a lot early on.  Don't get too frustrated with your missteps.  Use them instead to learn and grow, and to choose more wisely in the future.

[mortlock]

my band, due to extreme unpopularity and no fan base, always has to open the shows we play. I prefer to call it 'reverse headlining'..

[jibberish]

my band, due to extreme unpopularity and no fan base, always has to open the shows we play. I prefer to call it 'reverse headlining'..

\m/     \m/

[neighbor664]

Stunted!

[Andrew Blakk]

For my part I think the hardest part of all this is to keep the promotion thing going. I mean usually it's not any problem doing all this during the first couple of years of a band's history. Sending stuff to blogs, radio stations, gig places, record labels etc etc.

But when you've been doing it for almost ten years then it gets very much as a regular job. Especially if your a small band that can't hire someone to do it for you. But that's a part of being a band
that wants out of the basement I asume.    Some people are great doing that, and people like me perhaps not so good.  But are doing it anyway...

[Danny G]

The networking and promoting aspect is def not to be understated.

Networking can be especially tricky if you are kind of an introvert haha

[Dylan Thomas]

For my part I think the hardest part of all this is to keep the promotion thing going. I mean usually it's not any problem doing all this during the first couple of years of a band's history. Sending stuff to blogs, radio stations, gig places, record labels etc etc.

But when you've been doing it for almost ten years then it gets very much as a regular job. Especially if your a small band that can't hire someone to do it for you. But that's a part of being a band
that wants out of the basement I asume.    Some people are great doing that, and people like me perhaps not so good.  But are doing it anyway...

These days, I'm perfectly comfortable in the basement  

You're right, the other stuff becomes almost a full time job, and at a certain point, it starts to detract from the actual artistry of the music itself, in my experience.

I'd rather concentrate on writing music that I want to hear, rather than developing a brand and business model for a band.  Been there, done that, to me it was ultimately not at all fulfilling.  It started to detract more and more from making the music, which was the whole reason I wanted to be in bands in the first place.  In my experience it got to the point where writing and learning the songs was put on the backburner, and it became just a matter of perpetuating hype and different marketing angles.  At a certain point, there was zero mutual interest in moving forward as artists who craft and compose music.

[RAGER]

I'm terrible at promoting and schmoozing.  I really don't want to go see your super popular band that I think sucks just because I want on a bill with said band.  meh....

Luckily I've got some good buds that happen to be in super popular bands that are actually good so I might be able to get on a couple good bills if I decide to ever play out again.

[Dinx]

I've been in a few bands so far. Started out playing in a grunge band when i was 18, then a metalcore band, then an industrial metal band, and now I have my own stoner rock band and i also play in a black metal band.

I am 30 now and what I have learned so far is, you have to be confident about your own music or make the crowd believe you're confident about it
If you are not, you wont get the gigs and the people watching/listening to your shows.

Be open to different music styles, dont talk trash about other bands. (unless they talk trash about you) - you have to stick together with other bands

The four points someone mentioned:

1) For the cash - well it mostly just covers the expenses you have, like Gas or renting a bus
2) For the exposure - thats true, try to play as many shows as possible when on tour, even if you play for free, and in a really shitty location - youre still exposed to a crowd
3) To play with a band you really dig and want to play with - or to play with a befriended band who makes a similar style of music, their fans as well may become your fans
4) To help someone out - yup I also played benefit shows like raising funds, jump in for a band that cancelled whenever you can

At each show you can sell you merch and make new contacts, I always give away some free demos/EPs
Press CDs, Demos, give them away...

I am talking about this from an European point of view, as I am from Austria, and bands around here dont really have an easy time. Dont know how its running in the states.
My black metal band had an european tour in november and even with a Label behind us. we had to organize the tour by ourselfs. tons of merch selling, we still had to cover some expenses by ourselves.

What I am aiming at is, that even as a newcomer band, you have to deal with all the shit yourself, doesnt matter if you have a label or not. Because in at the end of the day it is still your band and its up to YOU if its a success or not, YOU have to put in the networking, the work, the ideas, the booking, to get around.

Another example is a band Ive been in for 3 years. It was 3 years of basement practice, great ideas, but exactly 3 gigs... IN 3 YEARS?!?! Thats why i left... they still exist as a band and rehearse every week the same songs, but havent played a gig since.

However, I admit that the promoting thing is a pain in the ass. Also the quality of your records has to be quite good, for being accepted at some radio station or promoter. Indirectly it has influence on your creativity in music and thats what sometimes frustrates me when writing songs.

Developing stages I know of:

1) getting together, start jamming
2) someone has a great idea, cool song first song
3) write some not so good songs
4) another actually good song pops out
5) yeah we got a 30-40min set, lets start looking for gigs
6) first gig is awesome - we are AWESOME!
7) second gig sucks - you dindnt practice that much for it, because you were AWESOME at the first one
you start recording a demo or an EP
9) someone thinks about leaving the band
10) eventually you start getting bigger crowds
11) promoting the band to keep it up
12a) it works out and you keep rocking
12b) you become an alcoholic


However i still love being on stage  

hope i didnt write too much shit.  

[Danny G]

Not at all! Great points.

Individual goals have a lot to do with what happens with a project. Some want to GO GO GO and others are content to just jam.

Make sure everyone involved wants to either GO GO GO, or just jam. Problems arise from mixing the two, as the former quickly become frustrated by the latter.

[EddieMullet]

1. Hell yeah we're just staring out, but this band is going to really go somewhere
2. A few beers and a couple tokes before practice
3. A few beers and a couple tokes during practice
4. Many beers and tokes during practice
5. Many beers and tokes instead of practice
6. Why even bother bringing gear lets just hang out in the garage and get wasted
7. This band isn't going anywhere time to break up