Here's the story, what do you think.
I was in a band and recorded an album together. There was a contract signed by a member with a label to release cd's. The member signed as the band. I left the band. The cd was released afterward. I have the suspicion that the current person playing the same instrument I played in the band is the one whose accredited for playing that instrument on the cd. There was a tape released before I left the band of the same recording with my name on it. If this is so, is it worth pursuing?
:D No. Why?
is there more money to be made by suing than you will spend on the lawyer?
unless you are the songwriter and the recording is a world wide hit, I am guessing no.
The album got lots of good press. I think the songwriter part is different. I wrote the parts for my instrument and helped with the arrangements.
Rager: It just seems messed up to me. Is this normal band behavior? If so, do you have any examples?
Quote from: franksnbeans on July 19, 2013, 05:28:18 PM
The album got lots of good press. I think the songwriter part is different. I wrote the parts for my instrument and helped with the arrangements.
Rager: It just seems messed up to me. Is this normal band behavior? If so, do you have any examples?
it honestly seems pretty normal dickish behavior to me. I wouldn't even bother. i would be pissed though but there's nothing you can really do. If the dude is ok with taking credit for your playing then feel good that he's a total fucking poser.
Quote from: franksnbeans on July 19, 2013, 05:28:18 PM
The album got lots of good press. I think the songwriter part is different. I wrote the parts for my instrument and helped with the arrangements.
Rager: It just seems messed up to me. Is this normal band behavior? If so, do you have any examples?
the songwriter is the person who gets money for any success the song may have. if your name is on the ascap or bmi, and the song has grossed over five figures...a lawyer might be worth your time and money.
as for playing your parts on an album, I'm not sure your performance is copyrighted...but even if it was, im not sure you could show any monetary damages or loss from it's use. You are not entitled to royalties unless you wrote or co-wrote the song.
If I remember correctly, you are a drummer? Chad Channing gets nothing for drumming on Bleach..in fact they still owe him the $500 he loaned Nirvana to have it recorded.
disclaimer:I am not a lawyer.
"as for playing your parts on an album, I'm not sure your performance is copyrighted...but even if it was, im not sure you could show any monetary damages or loss from it's use. You are not entitled to royalties unless you wrote or co-wrote the song.
If I remember correctly, you are a drummer? Chad Channing gets nothing for drumming on Bleach..in fact they still owe him the $500 he loaned Nirvana to have it recorded.
disclaimer:I am not a lawyer."
I played the drums on the whole album and was the only drummer on the album.
I remember reading that in the Jason Everman article
in order to be credited as a song writer your name needs to be on the ascap or bmi agreement.
your performance on an album means nothing legally.
I think.
I was in a band with a guy and we wrote a bunch of songs together. The band didnt work out and the songs were never used. He decided to record and release them on one of his other bands albums and gave me credits both within bmi and on the cd. Thats the polite and ethical way to roll.
drummers are seldom given any writing credit. we can rage against that but thats how it is. They seldom come up with melody or lyrics and the basic meter of the song is decided most likley as the song is being written so most songwriters dont think to give thme credit.
none of this matters at all unless the song has made any money.
Id be interested to hear what an attorney would say if you do talk to one.
maybe you could call the local college law school and see if any grad students do pro-boner work?
Well, I have proof of my name in the band and on the recording from the tape that was released by the band when I was a member.
I'm thinking of the statute of limitations. The cd was just released for something we recorded nearly two years ago. It may make money at some point.
It's weird, but when I emailed the label, the label said they would send me a cd, then when I emailed back to them in the same string of emails if my name was on the cd credits, I heard nothing back. I'm still not sure if my name, or anybody's name is on the credits for any of the album.
Maybe I'll wait to see the cd before I call a lawyer.
well before you call a lawyer, Id suggest doing a little research online about copyrights.
You dont need to prove anything. You just need your name on the copyright. If it was on there, you would know because youd be registered with bmi or ascap.
Its a dick move what they did to you, but i dont think you have any legal recourse. I say this only trying to be helpful, not discouraging. Look into it some, its pretty interesting.
To me it sounds like youre more interested in being credited for your performance than for receiving any money. I think that could ONLY be worked out thru the band, not thru a lwayer.
best of luck.
btw, i have a few copyrights and have never recieved a single dime from bmi or ascap. I dont think they even begin to tally until you reach a certain level of airplay or sales.
can you not google the cd cover/back image to see if your name is on it?
another btw, I do studio work occasionally. They always say they will send me a cd, they rarely do. Last thing I played on they credited me for the wrong instrument! >:(
There's performance royalties over here as well as writing royalties. No idea if that's the case over your side.
More like LOLywer, amirite?
Wait, this isn't the most recent band... With the really good album... Right?
Quote from: Chovie D on July 19, 2013, 05:14:47 PM
is there more money to be made by suing than you will spend on the lawyer?
unless you are the songwriter and the recording is a worldwide hit, I am guessing no.
This.
I checked the copyright data base for you. No copyright is on record for that album, regardless of who should be credited.
This is the only thing on record as credited to your name.
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=James%2C%20Benjamin%20David&PID=wKz6pIhMuGrSwxOEKavT3TMeeXXmY&BROWSE=1&HC=1&SID=9
Quote from: SunnO))) on July 20, 2013, 11:19:52 AM
Wait, this isn't the most recent band... With the really good album... Right?
Yup sunno. They kicked me out months ago. The bass player left then too because he thought it was wrong.
Quote from: neighbor664 on July 20, 2013, 12:11:31 PM
Quote from: Chovie D on July 19, 2013, 05:14:47 PM
is there more money to be made by suing than you will spend on the lawyer?
unless you are the songwriter and the recording is a worldwide hit, I am guessing no.
This.
I checked the copyright data base for you. No copyright is on record for that album, regardless of who should be credited.
This is the only thing on record as credited to your name.
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?SC=Author&SA=James%2C%20Benjamin%20David&PID=wKz6pIhMuGrSwxOEKavT3TMeeXXmY&BROWSE=1&HC=1&SID=9
Thanks Eric. Does this mean I can get a copyright on the album myself?
I s'pose. Is it worth it to you to spend $30 and giving away two copies of the album plus shipping?
It would really only benefit them. What do you hope to accomplish?
Rest assured, they aren't making any money either.
That's fucking lame, what reason did they give you?
The singer insisted I did not like him, and kept insisting. I tried to reason for days then he said he did not want to be my friend any more. ???
Hahahahahahaha. Best band firing story, ever.
Furthermore, the singer and the guitar player were my roommates at the time.
A team effort by narcissistic douchebags.
insistence of hate breeds hate
anyway, the label got back to me and I am in the credits for playing my instrument.
At least you're going to get the credit. Sorry you got the shaft, man, you're good people, regardless.
I try to be.
I went to court with a former band member once. Here's the short version:
- we form and record one album with a stand alone lead singer dude, and do a couple of tours
- with the proceeds from the tours, we go to a real nice studio and lay bed tracks for our second record
- singer dude falls in love with some chick from Texas, says he's moving there. Assumes we'll break up the band without him. Is surprised to find that we would prefer to carry on without him, and finish the record.
- he goes crazy, severs all contact, and absconds with the hard drive full of all of the bed tracks. Ironically, he is the only one who is NOT on those recordings, since we hadn't gotten to vocals yet. So it is a lead singer stealing the rest of the bands instrumental recordings
- as he packs to move to Texas, we continue to try and make contact and get the hard drive back. It gets uglier and uglier. Finally, we serve him with papers from small claims court
- he moves to Texas. We never get the hard drive back. We finish the album using stereo stem tracks we're able to salvage from the studio (stereo drums, stereo guitars etc - no access to the true multitrack). It is less than it should have been, sound quality wise, because of it.
- several months pass and we have an arbitration date. The judge works it out so that he is forced to pay back his portion of the recording costs to the band. 5 members in the band, and we got a friends and family discount... So he has to write us a cheque for $175 or something stupid .
Doesn't really sound worth it, does it? Also, at least in Canada if you sue someone and lose, you're liable for their legal costs as well as your own. Not sure if it is the same there, but keep it in mind.
That guy sounds like a piece of shit.
Singers.
Sent from a can on some string using Tapatalk
Quote from: Danny G on July 22, 2013, 12:11:27 PM
Singers.
Sent from a can on some string using Tapatalk
What's the name of the band? Come on, tell me then I will tell you whether or not it is worth pursuing.
Bubba Ho Tep.
(http://www.goblinhaus.com/movies/bubbahotep.jpg)
Dramasticator or Abstratanator or Abracadabranator or something like that.
Haha! Dramasticator. That's a funny name.
Quote from: taylo)))r on July 22, 2013, 04:54:33 PM
What's the name of the band? Come on, tell me then I will tell you whether or not it is worth pursuing.
Don't worry about the name. And what do you know about pursuing these types of matters?
Quote from: franksnbeans on July 22, 2013, 08:21:24 PM
Quote from: taylo)))r on July 22, 2013, 04:54:33 PM
What's the name of the band? Come on, tell me then I will tell you whether or not it is worth pursuing.
Don't worry about the name. And what do you know about pursuing these types of matters?
Unless they are making a shitton, it's not really worth pursuing unless you have a friend or family member that is a lawyer that will do it pro-bono. At a minimum for a lawyer you are looking at $150 an hour...if you're lucky. So unless you are going to get tens of thousands of dollars from them, I wouldn't worry about it.
Abstracter.
Does that mean "more abstract," or did you guys really want "Abstractor"?
EXREME :D :D
From what I understand, there is no money going to the band from the cd release other than what they sell at their live performances. I just want to make sure that I am recognized as being the drummer on the album.
I also understand they are now playing a new song we we wrote together that features many of my guitar riffs, but that's another story.
Quote from: franksnbeans on July 23, 2013, 02:50:31 PM
From what I understand, there is no money going to the band from the cd release other than what they sell at their live performances. I just want to make sure that I am recognized as being the drummer on the album.
I also understand they are now playing a new song we we wrote together that features many of my guitar riffs, but that's another story.
You know, and that is all that matters. Just ask them to credit you.
We can't let Lady Gaga get away with this...those are your riffs and you deserve compensation. You should call Judge Judy.
lady gaga and judge judy can both gag on my cock once I finish ramming their assholes.
LOLyer: "Hey man, I got you credit on the bands' Bandcamp page. It's under "former members" but at least it's there bro! That'll be eleventeen thousand dollars please"
Quote from: franksnbeans on July 23, 2013, 04:45:15 PM
lady gaga and judge judy can both gag on my cock once I finish ramming their assholes.
Uh, that escalated quickly.
Ok. Thanks.
I'd still do lady gaga and judge judy if you can please bmail me their contact information.
This seams a good place to tell this story.
When we were going through the whole name issue, we call a local entertainment/intellectual property lawyer, and he was a totally cool guy. Did a conf call with us for about an hour, told us he'd help us out with small potatoes stuff for his line of work knowing full and well we had no money -no charge, all we had to do was cover gvmnt fees. Gave some free consult and answered a few emails.
At one point I asked him if we got pushback what it might cost to have him help us fight it.
"Haha... Um, You don't really want to know my hourly rate."
It was $900. I can only figure that he's used to representing deep pocket enterprises and big companies. Very few "people" in NC can afford a $900/hr rate for the length of time necessary to fight whatever it is that a $900/hr lawyer does well.
Unfortunately for you, the United States does not recognize any rights for the performer of the music under the Copyright laws. The United States Copyright laws also do not require that an artist receive attribution or credit for his or her performance on the song. Some countries might (I think Australia does recognize a performer's right to be attributed).
So, if you are not the author or creator of the musical composition itself, then you have no rights to the song (i.e., publishing). Also, if you are not the owner of the sound recording itself, then you have no right to the copyright in the sound recording. It is unclear from your original post who actually made the recording. Most often a record label owns the rights to the sound recording because it is the one that paid for it and arranged for the producers and engineers to put it together. If you and your bandmates recorded the track in the basement, there is a possibility you could claim ownership in the sound recording. I would need more facts to determine that. If the record sells a million copies, I would seek out an entertainment lawyer if I were you.
Also, you could possibly have a claim for "unjust enrichment." In other words, a person who performs on a record is usually compensated for his performance. Studio musicians have rates for their work, and I would guess there is a standard or union rate for studio musicians. For example, the extra musicians who play a Cello on a Nirvana song, or violin on a Guns N Roses song, they get paid for their performance. The studio or label hires the musician, and he or she plays a part, and gets a payment. The musician usually gets recognition, but there is no right. You could potentially argue that your should get paid for your performance.
I know this goes a little beyond your post, but some hired musicians have also eventually claimed some ownership in the song based upon their contribution during the recording process. For example, a hired back up singer (Clare Torry) on one of Pink Floyd's songs (I think it was the Great Gig in the Sky on Dark Side of the Moon) sued Pink Floyd for royalties because she claimed co-ownership of the song. She gets royalties today for the song, because I think they settled. You're a drummer, however, so you probably did not contribute anything. :D
In short, the answer is "yes" you could see an entertainment lawyer, but "no" you probably should not unless the record takes off, and even then you may not have much to go on. Even at my rates ($300), it would not be worth much unless you think the record will get wide distribution (meaning sales).
DISCLAIMER: By the way, the above does not constitute legal advice, but is some off the cuff thoughts on a topic I know a little about. Do not place any reliance on the information above, but consult with a lawyer before taking any action as you will need to provide much more detail before anyone can fully give you advice.
(http://www.promoboxx.com/blog/wp-content/uploads//2012/10/the_more_you_know.jpeg)