About two years ago I inherited a '92 Les Paul standard with a cracked headstock. Under normal circumstances there are a plethora of places that'll do the repair. However, this already had a previous bad repair - which is to say that someone used the wrong glue, it didn't hold, and now the wood is, form what I understand, impermeable.
That just leaves removing and adding some new wood to the head and neck area, which increases the cost "a bunch." Every legit repair shop in the area has looked at it and won't work on it. Fair enough opinion. I've emailed a few highly-suggested places on the East coast, and the price almost universally ends up about $700 for new wood + a matching finish respray, plus shipping.
All of this raises a few questions. I got the LP for free, so on one hand, $700 for a LP Standard isn't a bad deal. Of course, I have absolutely no attachment to the instrument, so $700 for a guitar I've never played and might well hate seems steep. Options are essentially to suck it up and add a Les Paul to the arsenal, or sell it for a pittance, and apply that money elsewhere.
Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? I don't need another guitar, but I'm sure you all know how that sentence ends.
Make SunnModJake do it for free.
That sounds like far too much. Although the refin might be a bunch. Do you much care about a visible repair?
I've just got this in to repair:
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/Incarante/eanheadstock003.jpg)
No way I'm restoring the finish invisibly:
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/Incarante/deanheadstock001.jpg)
Pretty much gonna attack this with my mentor, because its actually a pretty valuable guitar, when dude said he didn't wanna spend mu money on it, figured it was the guitar that was cheap not the owner. I was gonna pin it and cram some 30 min PU in there and clamp up, but it looks worth going careful with some more experience.
Know what sort of glue it was? sure a scrape out and PU will sort it, but luthiers probably don't like that stuff.
Quote from: Jake on November 13, 2011, 04:15:13 PM
Make SunnModJake do it for free.
It'd be pretentious of me to ask. But I mean, if he were to offer... ;) Maybe there's a DD-20 in it to sweeten the deal.
Quote from: Mr. Foxen on November 13, 2011, 06:08:58 PM
That sounds like far too much. Although the refin might be a bunch. Do you much care about a visible repair?
Know what sort of glue it was? sure a scrape out and PU will sort it, but luthiers probably don't like that stuff.
I don't really care about the visibility of the repair, just the stability. As to the glue, I don't recall, but it was an epoxy, not wood glue. I really don't think I'm good enough to use new wood in a repair, but I did have the thought - if the epoxy permeated the wood, and therefore, it's not really "wood" anymore, would a multi-purpose glue hold, essentially, epoxy + epoxy? Eh.
How much just to put a whole new neck on it?
Look here, Ill do it, but I wont promise you I can fix it. also, respraying it is out of the question. Ill just strip the neck to uniformity. If it's already fucked, and Im not risking my neck(hehe) ruining an amazing guitar, Send it on. Ill letcha know the prognosis upon arrival... was it a full break?
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If the epoxy is stuck to the wood, and your glue stick to epoxy, then you are good to go, unless there is stuff stopping the surfaces mating right. PU glue is pretty awesome stuff as long at you can get the parts clamped right. Are the parts currently together, but separating? Drill and ugly hole through to pin it in the right place so the halves can't slide when you clamp it, good to go, but ugly.
If anything, i can pin it like Oli said, and make sure it wont break again. It'll need fretwork post-repair. Is it bound? If I can't fix it, Ill keep it until I can, hehehe.
Guys, dont be afraid to ask me to do this shit for y'all. you can pay me in gear, or not at all, whatever helps you sleep at night? Ask Deaner. Ive had 3 of his so far. J mascis squier on the way...
I just like volunteering you.
Then send me something, ya sonofabitch!
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Quote from: SunnO))) on November 13, 2011, 07:00:31 PM
If anything, i can pin it like Oli said, and make sure it wont break again. It'll need fretwork post-repair. Is it bound? If I can't fix it, Ill keep it until I can, hehehe.
Guys, dont be afraid to ask me to do this shit for y'all. you can pay me in gear, or not at all, whatever helps you sleep at night? Ask Deaner. Ive had 3 of his so far. J mascis squier on the way...
If they ever fucking come in. I think the ship from China sunk...
I ahve easily a grand worth of amps sat with a guy who volunteered to repair them out of interest, didn't pay for the work so paying for shipping seems unreasonable on the basis of I wouldn't buy shit that cost more to ship than to buy.
I get bored and start fixing shit. All of my shit is fixed... lol
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Quote from: SunnO))) on November 13, 2011, 06:55:06 PM
Look here, Ill do it, but I wont promise you I can fix it. also, respraying it is out of the question. Ill just strip the neck to uniformity. If it's already fucked, and Im not risking my neck(hehe) ruining an amazing guitar, Send it on. Ill letcha know the prognosis upon arrival... was it a full break?
Respray isn't necessary. I'm not trying to impress anyone, just play the damned thing. It's a full break - I'll see if I can wrangle up some pics. And it's bound, but the break is actually above the nut, so the binding shouldn't come into play.
re: replacement neck, Gibson said they'd charge $200 just to look at it, which would be applied to any repair they'd do. I also emailed Electrical about slapping on an aluminum neck, and they said they could, at about $900. Neat option, but not really worth the money in this particular case. But almost nobody else was willing to remove and replace the neck. A headstock graft is possible, though, from what I understand...
A few pix for the curious:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78055/IMG_8475.JPG)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78055/IMG_8478.JPG)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78055/IMG_8479.JPG)
Sigh, Whoever epoxied that is a fucking piece of shit. They made that repair 250% harder, and about four hundred more dollars. Basically, with these, you have ONE shot. If it broke, you took it in the next day, and somebody did it correctly, it would have been perfect. The pieces have to fit back together, perfectly, or else it's just going to fuckin' break again. This will be a tough one. Normally, I'd just take the board off, take out the truss rod, cut a new joint, and give it a new headstock. Never done it before, but that is the proper way to do it. I'd have to take all that epoxy off, pin it long ways, then spline it across the back to give it pressure to resist the strings pulling it off.
The epoxy removal part is he hard part. Epoxy gets incredibly hot while curing. After that, it's not coming off without some serious, serious doing. It'll take acetone, a heat gun, and a fuckload of patience to give me a workable surface, again. None of the paint will be salvaged, I have to take that entire area down to bare ass wood.
The rest is just wood work. I'm making you zero promises, if you want to send it. I'll try my 100% best, and you may end up with a workable piece, if not, and I can rebreak it using my hand or using the weight of the guitar itself, it won't be savable, and I'll ship it back to you.
Gibson won't be able to fix it. They'll do exactly what I said about the new headstock.
Replacing that neck is also out of the question. It's dovetailed in there, ain't gettin' that fucker out without a hundred hours to do so.
It'll make a cool thread, either way, don'tcha'll think?
Got a new plan: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Headless-Electric-Guitar-Bridge-Black-New-/320790626847?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4ab09c821f
PU glue is the bane of my existence, by the way. Epoxy, PU glue, and superglue for wood repairs = fucking bullshit.
I've had to fix so much shit that would have taken me two hours, but took me ten because some fucking moron decided he would do it on his own with his cool two part epoxy or CA bullshit glue. SUperglue has it's place in luthiery, but it's not in major structural repairs.
Oli, that dime is an easy repair with the right clamps and a syringe filled with proper wood glue.
EDIT: If it's Korean, it's worth about 400-600 bucks, pre-break. Now, about 200-300. Don't cut the headstock off, that's a simple fix, no shit.
Its using the glue shittily that is the problem, not the glue, people think the glue is magic and will do the repair for them. All those things work if you sort and set the joint right. I'm used to PU a bit more cause of cabinet prototyping and general carpentry. Although for most guitar shit I use Titebond. Thing about the Dime is that he decided to carry on playing it with a bust headstock for 6 months, so the crack is filled with shit and I'm probably gonna have to open it up to clean it out.
The headless hardware was a suggestion for the Gibson. Be worth it to post on Gibson fan forums.
Cleanin' out that break shouldn't be too, too bad. Air compressor and a needle sprayer will get it out just fine... post more pics once you spread it open.
Headless wont fit the contour of the LP, also, the strings need the neck angle post-nut or else they'll buzz all over.
I was picturing fitting the tuner bridge bit and running it right over the tune-o-matic. I assumed the other bit replaced the nut entirely but I've never looked closely at one because headless instruments are an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. Except if you are in GWAR, good reasons to go headless then.
Quote from: xayk on November 13, 2011, 07:50:13 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 13, 2011, 06:55:06 PM
Look here, Ill do it, but I wont promise you I can fix it. also, respraying it is out of the question. Ill just strip the neck to uniformity. If it's already fucked, and Im not risking my neck(hehe) ruining an amazing guitar, Send it on. Ill letcha know the prognosis upon arrival... was it a full break?
Respray isn't necessary. I'm not trying to impress anyone, just play the damned thing. It's a full break - I'll see if I can wrangle up some pics. And it's bound, but the break is actually above the nut, so the binding shouldn't come into play.
re: replacement neck, Gibson said they'd charge $200 just to look at it, which would be applied to any repair they'd do. I also emailed Electrical about slapping on an aluminum neck, and they said they could, at about $900. Neat option, but not really worth the money in this particular case. But almost nobody else was willing to remove and replace the neck. A headstock graft is possible, though, from what I understand...
900 wow not a cheap of option as I thought. I hope something works out for your and you salvage that guitar :)
See that joint, just shy of the nut, on the fretboard side? That's called a scarf joint, and a proper repair for that type of break starts there. Then a totally new headstock is made. Unfortunately, I'm not even a quarter as good as that guy is. I can do all through the wood-work section, but paint is a no-no for me until I can dedicate a booth to it. To do a headstock from the scarf, I'd probably charge about 700 bucks, no shit.
yeah that guy in the vid does some serious shit
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 13, 2011, 10:36:25 PM
See that joint, just shy of the nut, on the fretboard side? That's called a scarf joint, and proper construction for that type of neck starts there.
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 13, 2011, 08:42:39 PM
The rest is just wood work. I'm making you zero promises, if you want to send it. I'll try my 100% best, and you may end up with a workable piece, if not, and I can rebreak it using my hand or using the weight of the guitar itself, it won't be savable, and I'll ship it back to you.
I mean, it's already zero percent playable. How much more unplayable can it get? There's only an upside.
And I already own a Steinberger P series, so my headless needs are met. No matter how hilarious or upsetting it may be. Heh.
To the OP, there's a guy on eBay who auctions Gibson bodies.
I'd give up on that thing and use it as a parts donor for a new body/neck. Sell it on to someone else who feels like building a new headstock for it.
So the neck is dove tailed, wouldnt a router do the trick cleaning out the joint for a new neck?
It'll never fit right. You'd destroy the body getting it out of the slot. I'm sure it could be done, but if it were anything I put together, it's never coming off.
PLUS, do some math here, based on what I'd charge, just knowing how intensive it is:
Removing neck, no saving of the FB, frets, nut, etc: 300+ with no guarantee of it coming out clean.
Fitting new neck, new fretboard, new binding, fretwork, shaping of the headstock, drilling tuner holes: The full refret itself will cost 200 bucks, not to mention cutting all the slots, this is ALL without inlay, the binding...
No, fuck all that, you'd be well into an 80's LP Custom for the price it'd cost to replace the neck on this guitar. Just sayin'.
It's not all dandelions and butterflies, this is serious work we're talking about.
Can you see the neck joint if you take out the neck pickup? Might be rubbish. I had an SG junior and it had massive gaps around the tongue and marks from where they'd clamped right on it with no caul. Not sure what glue they use, but it might be stuff that steams out. Not convinced that taking neck off is the way to go, but the mechanics of getting it out might be easier than expected.
The cavities are finished like the rest of the guitar, I assume. Getting that neck out of there and replacing it would honestly cost more than fixing the headstock at the joint. You have to account for all of the work after it's fitted. New board, fretwork, etc. It isn't a simple slid in, slide out, you know?
i'd go with the electrical aluminum neck. i think an actual les paul shape with that neck would rule! the main reason i have been hesitating on buying an electrical guitar is cuz i'm not too crazy about the shapes offered.
dump the body for parts. man that is really fucked up. fuck the whole thing.
or take ALL the hardware and make art out of what is left..
i have dibs on the knobs, especially if they are those nice gold ones.
OR make my dream guitar and put an ibanez neck with whammy on that body.
:)
Quote from: jibberish on November 15, 2011, 04:18:21 AM
OR make my dream guitar and put an ibanez neck with whammy on that body.
:)
Blasphemy >:(
Looks like somebody poured fucking acid on it. Damn, what ever happened to gorilla glue and a shitload of clamps?
If someone poured acid on it it'd probably be easier to salvage.
I say pay the 70 you were quoted, I mean ya got it for nothing right? Seven bones for an LP is still a bargain.
...700. Not 70.
Swear I typed 700. It's still a good deal no?
70 is a better deal tho.
lol
Quote from: bass sic on November 17, 2011, 08:54:35 PM
Swear I typed 700. It's still a good deal no?
No. That guitar will never be worth 700 dollars, ever.
You're over-complicating things again ;D
Get a thru neck blank, stewmac does them, bandsaw the body into three parts, discard middle part with broken neck, glue other two body wings to the new neck.
See, easy ;D
Quote from: Hemisaurus on November 17, 2011, 10:44:10 PM
You're over-complicating things again ;D
Get a thru neck blank, stewmac does them, bandsaw the body into three parts, discard middle part with broken neck, glue other two body wings to the new neck.
See, easy ;D
no carved top?
I understand not everyone cares about resale value, but the way I look at guitars with neck repairs... devalued. If that guitar was worth a grand, in mint condition, with the original case. A Headstock break, with a GOOD/GREAT repair, makes that a 500 dollar guitar, to me. THIS guitar, with a potentially unrepairable without 30-40 hours worth of work headstock break... is maybe... free? That's what he paid for it. I'd never buy a guitar that had this type of bullshit work on it, especially not for 700 bones. You can nab the most awesome Agile less than that.
If you can find a dipshit retard like me that's willing to work for gear, or just for experience/to see if it can be done, yeah, throw a few tidbits his way and potentially get a working piece out of it. If not, you're out a pedal, and you gained a little extra space in your gear room. If I can't fix it, if anything, I can sell the pickups, and hardware and shit so you at least make a hundred bucks off a free guitar? Sounds like profit to me...
Quote from: Hemisaurus on November 17, 2011, 10:44:10 PM
You're over-complicating things again ;D
Get a thru neck blank, stewmac does them, bandsaw the body into three parts, discard middle part with broken neck, glue other two body wings to the new neck.
See, easy ;D
The fucked up part about that, Neck thru guitars can be made to any shape you want, you could just make the blank into a guitar if you want.
Carvin makes great affordable neckthru blanks.
Herbie, Why don'tcha do that for your bass? You can glue hunks of shit from your refuse bin to it, so it'd be punk enough for you... :D :D
Speaking of Carvin...
Sick deal on these drivers
http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=PS12-8 (http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=PS12-8)
EDIT: Carvin has rad deals on a lot of shit, check out their site...
Quote from: Hemisaurus on November 17, 2011, 10:44:10 PM
You're over-complicating things again ;D
Get a thru neck blank, stewmac does them, bandsaw the body into three parts, discard middle part with broken neck, glue other two body wings to the new neck.
See, easy ;D
Fuck ya that is a great idea. That thing would be bullet proof after that. :)
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 17, 2011, 11:24:43 PM
Herbie, Why don'tcha do that for your bass? You can glue hunks of shit from your refuse bin to it, so it'd be punk enough for you... :D :D
See again you overcomplicate things, all my necks are bolt-on ;D
Look, here's what you do: Buy one of those neck-through blanks and after a bit of routing and drilling, you swap out all the electronics and hardware onto the blank and pitch the LP entirely. Call it the DOOMSTICK. Done, done, done, & done.
minimalism, i like it.
or
you could bandsaw the body wings off, stick on a steinberger bridge, sand the end of the neck flush and fit the (I don't know what to call a tailpiece when it's on the other end) and make a steinberger.
or
not saw the wings off, and have a headless Les Paul. For extra points, find some way of affixing the old headstock above the tailpiece, like mount it on a bolt, so people can see that it was an actual Les Paul, and watch the horrified looks ;)
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 17, 2011, 11:24:43 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on November 17, 2011, 10:44:10 PM
You're over-complicating things again ;D
Get a thru neck blank, stewmac does them, bandsaw the body into three parts, discard middle part with broken neck, glue other two body wings to the new neck.
See, easy ;D
The fucked up part about that, Neck thru guitars can be made to any shape you want, you could just make the blank into a guitar if you want.
Carvin makes great affordable neckthru blanks.
Herbie, Why don'tcha do that for your bass? You can glue hunks of shit from your refuse bin to it, so it'd be punk enough for you... :D :D
Speaking of Carvin...
Sick deal on these drivers
http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=PS12-8 (http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=PS12-8)
EDIT: Carvin has rad deals on a lot of shit, check out their site...
Do you know if those really work for bass like the review on there says they should?
"I was going through Carvin's web sight one day I saw an amp that carried this speaker that was a full range amp set up for bass, guitar and voice."
I've also noticed some really awesome deals on their website.
Yeah, it's just a standard PA speaker, works fine for bass. If it's a testimonial, the guy from Lightning Bolt uses the same series (10" version) to fix his busted cab in the documentary.
I came up with another use for the guitar, if you can't afford a headless bridge, just mount the tuning machines from the headstock on the body, like BC Rich did for their 10 strings, or Kramer did for their headless bass.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n249/BigRedX/DSC01571.jpg)
there are cheap string anchor designs out there for the end of the neck.
Quote from: Hemisaurus on November 18, 2011, 11:02:48 AM
Yeah, it's just a standard PA speaker, works fine for bass. If it's a testimonial, the guy from Lightning Bolt uses the same series (10" version) to fix his busted cab in the documentary.
what documentary?