On the subject of neck repairs...

xayk · November 13, 2011, 03:58:49 PM

About two years ago I inherited a '92 Les Paul standard with a cracked headstock. Under normal circumstances there are a plethora of places that'll do the repair. However, this already had a previous bad repair - which is to say that someone used the wrong glue, it didn't hold, and now the wood is, form what I understand, impermeable.

That just leaves removing and adding some new wood to the head and neck area, which increases the cost "a bunch." Every legit repair shop in the area has looked at it and won't work on it. Fair enough opinion. I've emailed a few highly-suggested places on the East coast, and the price almost universally ends up about $700 for new wood + a matching finish respray, plus shipping.

All of this raises a few questions. I got the LP for free, so on one hand, $700 for a LP Standard isn't a bad deal. Of course, I have absolutely no attachment to the instrument, so $700 for a guitar I've never played and might well hate seems steep. Options are essentially to suck it up and add a Les Paul to the arsenal, or sell it for a pittance, and apply that money elsewhere.

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? I don't need another guitar, but I'm sure you all know how that sentence ends.

Jake · November 13, 2011, 04:15:13 PM

Make SunnModJake do it for free.

Mr. Foxen · November 13, 2011, 06:08:58 PM

That sounds like far too much. Although the refin might be a bunch. Do you much care about a visible repair?

I've just got this in to repair:

No way I'm restoring the finish invisibly:

Pretty much gonna attack this with my mentor, because its actually a pretty valuable guitar, when dude said he didn't wanna spend mu money on it, figured it was the guitar that was cheap not the owner. I was gonna pin it and cram some 30 min PU in there and clamp up, but it looks worth going careful with some more experience.

Know what sort of glue it was? sure a scrape out and PU will sort it, but luthiers probably don't like that stuff.

xayk · November 13, 2011, 06:21:21 PM

Quote from: Jake on November 13, 2011, 04:15:13 PM
Make SunnModJake do it for free.

It'd be pretentious of me to ask. But I mean, if he were to offer...

Maybe there's a DD-20 in it to sweeten the deal.

Quote from: Mr. Foxen on November 13, 2011, 06:08:58 PM
That sounds like far too much. Although the refin might be a bunch. Do you much care about a visible repair?

Know what sort of glue it was? sure a scrape out and PU will sort it, but luthiers probably don't like that stuff.

I don't really care about the visibility of the repair, just the stability. As to the glue, I don't recall, but it was an epoxy, not wood glue. I really don't think I'm good enough to use new wood in a repair, but I did have the thought - if the epoxy permeated the wood, and therefore, it's not really "wood" anymore, would a multi-purpose glue hold, essentially, epoxy + epoxy? Eh.

spookstrickland · November 13, 2011, 06:30:18 PM

How much just to put a whole new neck on it?

VOLVO))) · November 13, 2011, 06:55:06 PM

Look here, Ill do it, but I wont promise you I can fix it. also, respraying it is out of the question. Ill just strip the neck to uniformity. If it's already fucked, and Im not risking my neck(hehe) ruining an amazing guitar, Send it on. Ill letcha know the prognosis upon arrival... was it a full break?

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Mr. Foxen · November 13, 2011, 06:56:24 PM

If the epoxy is stuck to the wood, and your glue stick to epoxy, then you are good to go, unless there is stuff stopping the surfaces mating right. PU glue is pretty awesome stuff as long at you can get the parts clamped right. Are the parts currently together, but separating? Drill and ugly hole through to pin it in the right place so the halves can't slide when you clamp it, good to go, but ugly.

VOLVO))) · November 13, 2011, 07:00:31 PM

If anything, i can pin it like Oli said, and make sure it wont break again. It'll need fretwork post-repair. Is it bound? If I can't fix it, Ill keep it until I can, hehehe.

Guys, dont be afraid to ask me to do this shit for y'all. you can pay me in gear, or not at all, whatever helps you sleep at night? Ask Deaner. Ive had 3 of his so far. J mascis squier on the way...

Jake · November 13, 2011, 07:19:47 PM

I just like volunteering you.

VOLVO))) · November 13, 2011, 07:21:26 PM

Then send me something, ya sonofabitch!

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The Shocker · November 13, 2011, 07:31:22 PM

Quote from: SunnO))) on November 13, 2011, 07:00:31 PM
If anything, i can pin it like Oli said, and make sure it wont break again. It'll need fretwork post-repair. Is it bound? If I can't fix it, Ill keep it until I can, hehehe.

Guys, dont be afraid to ask me to do this shit for y'all. you can pay me in gear, or not at all, whatever helps you sleep at night? Ask Deaner. Ive had 3 of his so far. J mascis squier on the way...

If they ever fucking come in. I think the ship from China sunk...

Mr. Foxen · November 13, 2011, 07:34:31 PM

I ahve easily a grand worth of amps sat with a guy who volunteered to repair them out of interest, didn't pay for the work so paying for shipping seems unreasonable on the basis of I wouldn't buy shit that cost more to ship than to buy.

VOLVO))) · November 13, 2011, 07:47:06 PM

I get bored and start fixing shit. All of my shit is fixed... lol

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xayk · November 13, 2011, 07:50:13 PM

Quote from: SunnO))) on November 13, 2011, 06:55:06 PM
Look here, Ill do it, but I wont promise you I can fix it. also, respraying it is out of the question. Ill just strip the neck to uniformity. If it's already fucked, and Im not risking my neck(hehe) ruining an amazing guitar, Send it on. Ill letcha know the prognosis upon arrival... was it a full break?

Respray isn't necessary. I'm not trying to impress anyone, just play the damned thing. It's a full break - I'll see if I can wrangle up some pics. And it's bound, but the break is actually above the nut, so the binding shouldn't come into play.

re: replacement neck, Gibson said they'd charge $200 just to look at it, which would be applied to any repair they'd do. I also emailed Electrical about slapping on an aluminum neck, and they said they could, at about $900. Neat option, but not really worth the money in this particular case. But almost nobody else was willing to remove and replace the neck. A headstock graft is possible, though, from what I understand...

xayk · November 13, 2011, 07:57:00 PM

A few pix for the curious:

VOLVO))) · November 13, 2011, 08:42:39 PM

Sigh, Whoever epoxied that is a fucking piece of shit. They made that repair 250% harder, and about four hundred more dollars. Basically, with these, you have ONE shot. If it broke, you took it in the next day, and somebody did it correctly, it would have been perfect. The pieces have to fit back together, perfectly, or else it's just going to fuckin' break again. This will be a tough one. Normally, I'd just take the board off, take out the truss rod, cut a new joint, and give it a new headstock. Never done it before, but that is the proper way to do it. I'd have to take all that epoxy off, pin it long ways, then spline it across the back to give it pressure to resist the strings pulling it off.

The epoxy removal part is he hard part. Epoxy gets incredibly hot while curing. After that, it's not coming off without some serious, serious doing. It'll take acetone, a heat gun, and a fuckload of patience to give me a workable surface, again. None of the paint will be salvaged, I have to take that entire area down to bare ass wood.

The rest is just wood work. I'm making you zero promises, if you want to send it. I'll try my 100% best, and you may end up with a workable piece, if not, and I can rebreak it using my hand or using the weight of the guitar itself, it won't be savable, and I'll ship it back to you.

Gibson won't be able to fix it. They'll do exactly what I said about the new headstock.

Replacing that neck is also out of the question. It's dovetailed in there, ain't gettin' that fucker out without a hundred hours to do so.

It'll make a cool thread, either way, don'tcha'll think?

Mr. Foxen · November 13, 2011, 08:46:25 PM

Got a new plan: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Headless-Electric-Guitar-Bridge-Black-New-/320790626847?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4ab09c821f

VOLVO))) · November 13, 2011, 08:51:36 PM

PU glue is the bane of my existence, by the way. Epoxy, PU glue, and superglue for wood repairs = fucking bullshit.

I've had to fix so much shit that would have taken me two hours, but took me ten because some fucking moron decided he would do it on his own with his cool two part epoxy or CA bullshit glue. SUperglue has it's place in luthiery, but it's not in major structural repairs.

Oli, that dime is an easy repair with the right clamps and a syringe filled with proper wood glue.

EDIT: If it's Korean, it's worth about 400-600 bucks, pre-break. Now, about 200-300. Don't cut the headstock off, that's a simple fix, no shit.

Mr. Foxen · November 13, 2011, 09:10:15 PM

Its using the glue shittily that is the problem, not the glue, people think the glue is magic and will do the repair for them. All those things work if you sort and set the joint right. I'm used to PU a bit more cause of cabinet prototyping and general carpentry. Although for most guitar shit I use Titebond. Thing about the Dime is that he decided to carry on playing it with a bust headstock for 6 months, so the crack is filled with shit and I'm probably gonna have to open it up to clean it out.

The headless hardware was a suggestion for the Gibson. Be worth it to post on Gibson fan forums.

VOLVO))) · November 13, 2011, 09:13:35 PM

Cleanin' out that break shouldn't be too, too bad. Air compressor and a needle sprayer will get it out just fine... post more pics once you spread it open.

Headless wont fit the contour of the LP, also, the strings need the neck angle post-nut or else they'll buzz all over.

Mr. Foxen · November 13, 2011, 09:22:59 PM

I was picturing fitting the tuner bridge bit and running it right over the tune-o-matic. I assumed the other bit replaced the nut entirely but I've never looked closely at one because headless instruments are an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. Except if you are in GWAR, good reasons to go headless then.

spookstrickland · November 13, 2011, 09:41:33 PM

Quote from: xayk on November 13, 2011, 07:50:13 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 13, 2011, 06:55:06 PM
Look here, Ill do it, but I wont promise you I can fix it. also, respraying it is out of the question. Ill just strip the neck to uniformity. If it's already fucked, and Im not risking my neck(hehe) ruining an amazing guitar, Send it on. Ill letcha know the prognosis upon arrival... was it a full break?

Respray isn't necessary. I'm not trying to impress anyone, just play the damned thing. It's a full break - I'll see if I can wrangle up some pics. And it's bound, but the break is actually above the nut, so the binding shouldn't come into play.

re: replacement neck, Gibson said they'd charge $200 just to look at it, which would be applied to any repair they'd do. I also emailed Electrical about slapping on an aluminum neck, and they said they could, at about $900. Neat option, but not really worth the money in this particular case. But almost nobody else was willing to remove and replace the neck. A headstock graft is possible, though, from what I understand...

900 wow not a cheap of option as I thought. I hope something works out for your and you salvage that guitar

RAGER · November 13, 2011, 10:02:44 PM

i'd trust this guy.

VOLVO))) · November 13, 2011, 10:36:25 PM

See that joint, just shy of the nut, on the fretboard side? That's called a scarf joint, and a proper repair for that type of break starts there. Then a totally new headstock is made. Unfortunately, I'm not even a quarter as good as that guy is. I can do all through the wood-work section, but paint is a no-no for me until I can dedicate a booth to it. To do a headstock from the scarf, I'd probably charge about 700 bucks, no shit.

RAGER · November 13, 2011, 11:16:37 PM

yeah that guy in the vid does some serious shit