I had to get rid of my guitar player, I've been friends with him for 30 years. We'll still be friends later, but he was driving me crazy. Showing up to practice totally unprepared (why is this pedal real loud, and this one real soft? I don't know dude, figure that out on your own time). Not helping to pay for the practice space, complaining about stuff all the time. Bad back, can't even carry his own amps.
Hey man, here's the recording of what we were doing last week.
(Later) Oh sorry, I never listened to that.
Oh, well here's some selections from different days, I picked out some of the best bits.
(Later) Oh sorry, I never listened to that.
Um yeah, here are the best bits which I think we could make into an album. What do you think of the song order?
(Later) Oh sorry, I never listened to that.
Really? You never listen to your own music, even if I told you I think it could be an album?
Still, I feel guilty. But I know some people get kicked out of bands just for not being able to help pay for practice space. I floated this dude for over a year, almost two years.
Anybody else had to cut somebody loose, even though he's your friend?
Ouch. Did he see it coming or was he blindsided?
(you were toally justified, imo)
Firing people sucks, friend or not.
I had to fire a friend as our bass player almost 30 years ago. We were drinking/wenching buddies for several years leading up to it, shared food/beer/women on the road (I shit you not!) It got to where he was more interested in drinking/getting/being drunk than playing/practicing/touring/etc, so he had to go. Everybody said he'd take it better, coming from me.
He literally hasn't spoken to me since.
I'd still do it again. It was the right thing for me and the band. Losing a friend over music still sucks.
Quote from: Jake on July 27, 2011, 09:33:00 PM
Ouch. Did he see it coming or was he blindsided?
(you were toally justified, imo)
I dunno. I was getting a lot of subtle "I'm not into this" messages. There was a big enthusiasm gap. Also, I kicked him out once before, maybe 1.5 years ago (and then after 9 months, I said fuck it, maybe I was being too uptight). I realized I'm not uptight, he is just plain difficult to work with. It was affecting me and spoiling my attitude about the project.
And I suppose you have talked to him about not listening to your recordings, showing up unprepared and so forth?
Just yesterday, me and one of my best friends who's also the drummer in our band spoke about what could've been an argument instead of keeping it inside and being stubborn. We we're totally Dr.Phil-ing and it was the best thing we've done I believe. If you've been friends with him for 30 years you should be able to talk to him properly.
The bad back thing really sucks. I have a bad back and I play some really tiny light weight shit these days that people get pissed about because they can not hear it but I do not want to have to rely on other people to carry my shit.
the other stuff is totally justified but the bad back part I feel for him, it's a tough boat to be in.
Quote from: Pundan on July 27, 2011, 10:53:57 PM
And I suppose you have talked to him about not listening to your recordings, showing up unprepared and so forth?
Just yesterday, me and one of my best friends who's also the drummer in our band spoke about what could've been an argument instead of keeping it inside and being stubborn. We we're totally Dr.Phil-ing and it was the best thing we've done I believe. If you've been friends with him for 30 years you should be able to talk to him properly.
Actually, Dr. Phil would be useful in this case, because I've only talked about some of the issues. I didn't want to blog a whole page worth of drama. Here's a good one -
Hey, I can't afford 12 dollars for practice this week, I'm taking my daughter to Europe for 3 weeks
Hey no problem - I'll pay for it, I support your trip with your daughter (hourly practice space)
Sorry I'm late, my weed guy took forever to show up
I guess it opens up a whole can of worms -- the whole general question of "If you were really my friend, you'd clean up my vomit".
Oh?
I guess I have an obligation to him, to have his back... but what about his obligation to me? At some point you have to recognize that something's not working, and move on.
After a couple of months of laying low we're gonna get started very soon although I fear we'll first have to have a Dr Phil meeting on the manner of getting started (we all have more gear than we did before and no real practice place) and more importantly if we can get some unison in terms of sound, I'm relistening our one song demo as I type this and I think both the guitar player and I are going to have very different sounds in comparison to a couple of months ago. I sincerely hope that no conflict will arise as the guitarplayer is my best friend and the drummer a really close friend.
never easy to do. ive actually never had to do it. although ive quit bands that i had friends in because they werent towing the line. it was easier for me to quit than fire the whole band..if that makes any sense.
Instead of firing him, you and everyone else in the band should quit and form a new band w/o him.
It was a two piece band. Just me and him.
Quote from: Lumpy on July 28, 2011, 01:01:40 PM
It was a two piece band. Just me and him.
guitar players are a dime a dozen!
I don't think I've ever had to kick anyone out of a band, actually. In most cases the person quit before they were booted. In one case the guy ended up going to jail. I can't recall ever being in a band when the band as a whole was great but one person was a problem. So most of the time if things were going sour the band just broke up or I quit.
I have had a serious personal conflict over quitting a band before. I was the primary song writer and the singer and I didn't want to do the band anymore, because I felt like all my ideas were being shot down but no one wanted to contribute anything ("no, I don't like that, write something else", etc.). I tried to be very diplomatic because the guys in the band were my friends. I told them they could replace me, use any songs I had written, I would teach my replacement the songs, I just didn't want to do the band anymore. They didn't talk to me for 9 months. I ended up working it out with both of them (although I'm only still friends with one at this point), but it was really awkward.
ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I've done it. but to be in my band ya gotta be a shit hot player..period.
Quote from: LogicalFrank on July 28, 2011, 09:59:28 AM
Instead of firing him, you and everyone else in the band should quit and form a new band w/o him.
I've done this.
Quote from: Lumpy on July 28, 2011, 12:04:06 AM
Hey, I can't afford 12 dollars for practice this week, I'm taking my daughter to Europe for 3 weeks
Hey no problem - I'll pay for it, I support your trip with your daughter (hourly practice space)
SORRY I'M LATE, MY WEED GUY TOOK FOREVER TO SHOW UP
this had me busting out laughing at work.
Quote from: LogicalFrank on July 28, 2011, 09:59:28 AM
Instead of firing him, you and everyone else in the band should quit and form a new band w/o him.
I saw this happen. A friend of mine was
fired from the band he was in, all the other members apart from the guy that fired him quit and formed a new band with him, proves sometimes it's the guy doing the firing that is the real dick. It was one of those
name projects where the guy that fired him, was the guy with his name in the band, you know like Joe Boggs and the Sump-Pump Misfits, it was suggested the new band should be called No Boggs ;) (names changed to protect the guilty)
Kinda the inverse for me. I not so long ago had quit a band consisting of three very dear friends. I was never kicked out of the band though. SR.COM refugees will remember Damnweevil. After a few personal tragedies and some financial troubles I'd decided I was just not feeling it anymore. Not the band's music, but the whole thing. All the trappings of being in a busy band. I just started feeling it wasn't fair to the other guys. No one ever confronted me about it or told me I wasn't cutting it, but I felt like I wasn't. About the same time I also quit my job. I just kinda went into hiding. A few months later my dad got sick. Being at his bedside and fighting with doctors became the focus of my former job and band energies. Dad passed, I broke up with my girlfriend and was I was even homeless for a bit.
Things are going fairly good now. I am only now starting to feel like playing with other folks though. I really don't want to be in a band, but I have a few songs I've wrote over the last few years that I need to do something with.
record them. play as many of te arts as you can yourself, get friends to do the rest, or program it, if you know how.
it's funny how oftentimes all the shit seems to come at you all at once :-[
Wow, that sounds pretty rough (neighbor664). Good to hear that you've pulled through.
Man, I do feel for the guy who I kicked out. But I couldn't handle the drama. I just want to play music with a minimum of drama. He is a good guitar player, but there are other good guitar players out there.
Sometimes all it takes is ASKING the dude if he's into it. And usually, if you have to ask, he ain't. He may be just hanging in there because he doesn't want to let YOU down. He may welcome the out, if you bring it up, and this way it's a mutual thing, rather than a firing. That's the way I've done it before anyway. Works on chicks too!
Quote from: Corey Y on July 28, 2011, 02:29:08 PM
I can't recall ever being in a band when the band as a whole was great but one person was a problem.
I can - I was in that situation about 18 months ago. In the end the bass player quit, because it just wasn't working, and I told the drummer that I just wasn't enthusiastic about it all. A few weeks later, bass player called me up and told me he was jamming with this new drummer that would be keen to do my songs - so it kinda ended up as per Frank's suggestion, heh.
The drummer we got rid of wasn't an old friend, but he
was a really good dude, one of the nicest guys I've ever met actually. Ran into him at another band's show not long ago, and he was still clearly cut up about the whole thing, which is a pity.
I have the exact opposite situation, my bandmates don't think we spend enough time together. We jam, and write songs, shoot the shit, but after practice, we part ways. I don't really hang out with them. I skate with my drummer, he's a great guy, and a joy to be around. The bass player is in a constant downspiral that I tried to help him out of about a year ago, with disastrous results. He doesn't pay for shit, own his own amp, etc etc. Anyways, he texted me a few weeks ago saying how "I don't feel like we're friends." Seriously? Mind you, all he does for fun is get blackout drunk, and sits at his house. He incessantly texts me at 2-5 in the morning about "WHY DO MY GOOD LOOKS DOOM ME TO BE ALONE?" (lol.) It's a real clusterfuck. Yet, he wants to spend more time with him?
Fuck people, and their dumb fucking feelings. It's a band. I don't have to be your butt buddy to be in a band with you. If we don't gel outside of the band doesn't matter. The music matters.
That being said, I've played in two bands with some REALLY good friends, and all we ever ended up doing is hanging out, and eventually going out to eat. I can't totally get along with my bandmates, or we'll never do anything. haha.
I've been lucky so far since my move to NYC. Both of the people I've played with, withe intention of starting a band (regularly and... less regularly) are stand up people with gobs of talent who are a lot of fun to work with. If anything, my being broke has been the downer. After a long layoff I feel like I'm getting back to where I used to be by leaps and bounds, thanks in large part to playing with really good musicians who challenge me and make me really want to play my best and constantly improve.
As most of you know, one of the biggest things about being in a functioning band is the ability to tolerate other people. If you're annoyed by personal habits, actions, voices, "vibes", morality beyond your own, ANY of that stuff, you're gonna have problems that'll fuck up yo' shit, sooner or later. Set basic parameters (have your gear covered, show up to practice, you know, the basics) and let everything else go.. Just gotta let it go. It's hard enough to find people on your level musically who like the same stuff and wanna jam, it's that much harder to find compatibility in areas beyond music
This whole "feeling comfortable and open in the practice space" thing is completely new and foreign. I'm not used to being excited about seeing my bandmates and interacting with them, and wanting to hang out with them outside of practice. Where's the sense of dread?! Why don't I hate every minute I'm alive anymore?! WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO ME?!!
lumpy, he had to go.
as hard of a pil as that was to swallow, it WAS fucking you up. and that whole floating taking advantage thing....shows a person's character. like disrepect as one facet of it.
i also bet deep down, your pal feels some sense of freedom from a commitment he wasnt so keen on anymore.
Quote from: jibberish on July 29, 2011, 05:40:41 PM
i also bet deep down, your pal feels some sense of freedom from a commitment he wasnt so keen on anymore.
I think that's true. He would skip a weekly 1 hour practice with me a lot, but he hardly ever skipped the weekly jam with his buddy where they would get drunk and play punk rock covers. My band is free form noise, and he is more of a noisy punk rock guy - I don't think he ever felt totally comfortable with the program.
In the past few years I have gone through more band drama ups and down than I care to remember. Things are still real awkward between me and a former bandmate which is a real shame because we used to be best friends. Now I Have a bunch of songs that no one ever hears. I go to shows and get asked all the time "when are yall gonna be playing again?" Fuck if I know bro.
I have had to kick out band members, and I have felt like shit while doing it. But I remained friends with most of them to this day. I even had an old lead singer of mine tell me that we were better as a 3 piece, which meant a lot to me because I had taken over vocal duties and was very unsure of myself. You just keep on keeping on.
I just kicked myself out of a band today? We were supposed to play a show tonight, and the bill got moved around a little. There was two reunion shows of old Tallahassee bands, those two dropped off, and the guys in my band texted me at 1:30EST, to tell me that they didn't want to play the show. Earlier this week, they said they thought we were unprepared. I said whatever, no, I'm down, we can make it work. That blew over. Today, after I took off work yesterday, today, etc, so we could play and be ready, they cancel on me. I. LOST. MY. SHIT. Packed up my drums, didn't say a single word to them, left. I'm not going to look like a fucking flake because these people don't get their way. Fucking stupid. I hate bands. I'm selling a bunch of shit today. I'm fuckin' toast.
Dont sell your stuff. You can't let other people kill your enthusiasm for playing music.
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff409/enslavedinrot/2011-07-30_22-00-37_337.jpg)
But there is so much...
Quote from: Lumpy on July 31, 2011, 03:41:09 PM
Dont sell your stuff. You can't let other people kill your enthusiasm for playing music.
^^^
I think it may just be time for it to go. I doubt I'll end up selling most of it, because I'm super attached to most of it, and people are going to lowball the ever living fuck out of me, even my friends. So, I posted the list to an amp group on facebook, that I'm an admin for, and seeing what I get in offers.
(The not-so-impressive) LIST:
76 Sunn Concert Lead
71 Sunn Sonaro
?? Sunn Beta Power+ It's a 100 watt slave
?? Peavey 4x12, Sheffield Loaded, owned by Spike Mott (COLLECTORS ITEM hahaha)
?? Yamaha SBG200, neck repair (professionally done, by me), plays great, looks cool, tuned to B, will set up for whatever.
?? Boss FZ-2, Electric Wizard - Dopethrone tone in a box. Great for bass.
?? Diabolical DD-50, Univox Unidrive clone, love it but don't need it.
Deaner may be interested in the Yammy, so, I'll pull it if he wants it.
Since ive moved to seattle ive been kicked out of three bands. ;D
(and not been asked back to a bunch of ones I have sat in with and gotten too drunk for)
all completely justified. all were/are people I considered friends.
Your description of your freind lumpy describes me also(except for the not contributing financially part).
I can tell you truthfully I was not fully into any of those bands and that lead to alot of the behavior you are describing.
I supsect that your frined wasnt fully into it either and you really dont wann abe in a band with someone whos not into it, trust me.
I also get really drunk and alot of people dont appreciate that when your there to play THEIR music. ..but thats another story.
Of the three friends who fired me, I was pissed at one for a couple years because i felt betrayed, we made up eventually and he then moved out of town, still friends but at a great distance, it was never the same. Another, the band broke up a month later and they all have moved out of town, still facebook friends. the most recent no hard feelings on my end at all, but now theres a weirdness between me and my freind and we dont talk...its only been a month tho so maybe that will pass. I hope so, I still like the guy, like his music, and I totally deserved to get fired AND i feel a great sense of relief I dont have to go play shitty shows anymore. The pats year has been ZERO fun doing music. an dif its not fn for me, theres no point since it doesnt pay my bills and I'm not looking to get laid from it.
IM done with bands and live music for a bit (i say this once every 3-4 years and always come back to it)and am contemplating selling some stuff off as well..i juts have too much shit, dont need most of it, and could use the room for something else, money not an issue. I wouldnt say anyone else has killed my enthusiasm. Ive just gotten older and dont enjoy the 'scene' anymore, in fact its torture. That said I just got sucked into another band..but I dont think we will make any music, certainly not play any shows, were just gonna be a band ;)
tl/dr? bottom line dont feel bad , you did the right thing, as long as you were honest and not mean about it.
Quote from: Metal and Beer on July 29, 2011, 03:04:21 PM
As most of you know, one of the biggest things about being in a functioning band is the ability to tolerate other people. If you're annoyed by personal habits, actions, voices, "vibes", morality beyond your own, ANY of that stuff, you're gonna have problems that'll fuck up yo' shit, sooner or later. Set basic parameters (have your gear covered, show up to practice, you know, the basics) and let everything else go.. Just gotta let it go. It's hard enough to find people on your level musically who like the same stuff and wanna jam, it's that much harder to find compatibility in areas beyond music
This.
I concur, I had a couple of cats that sounded ok before I moved north of Toronto and nothing came of it. It's been really rough, 'specially since the one guy I thought I'd get along with lives 5 mins. away! Seemed cool, Traynor stacks, reel-to-reel, Garnet PA. 70's Ludwig kit, a fucking Hammond B3 w/ Leslie and a rad house built in the 70's. Jammed 3 times, then nothing. No email, nada. I'm not hard to get along with, I'm humble, not a crook or a drunk either. He just flaked out. It gets hard in your late 30's, just to play, not get laid or nab a date. Ugh.
Whilst on the subject not-satisfied-with-how-your-band-is-turning-out, how long do you guys practice? We try to play 2 hours at least, but in my opinion we have too many breaks in between songs.
Often I feel that I'm getting warmed up after an hour of practice, my amp sounds the best then - and by then the other members want to sit down and take a rest. I sometimes wish that we could have a 4 hour practice, just for once.
I also feel that we don't work as much as group as I would like to. It's very often that I come to practice with ½ of a song written already, and the other members seldom give me any critique. I'm a guy that feels that if there's any problem, shit's gotta be talked through right there and then so I tend to bring it up. The other guys in my band are somewhat shy and quiet people. So after two years I'm just now getting used to being the main songwriter. There has been a lot of argue in my band, but I'm just now starting to feel that we're focused and have worked on our less good sides.
Sorry for hi-jacking the thread, but I thought this is somewhat on the subject. ;)
"As most of you know, one of the biggest things about being in a functioning marriage is the ability to tolerate other people."
But sometimes a divorce is the best thing for everybody. Same dif.
Quote from: Pundan on August 02, 2011, 01:03:57 AM
Whilst on the subject not-satisfied-with-how-your-band-is-turning-out, how long do you guys practice? We try to play 2 hours at least, but in my opinion we have too many breaks in between songs.
Often I feel that I'm getting warmed up after an hour of practice, my amp sounds the best then - and by then the other members want to sit down and take a rest. I sometimes wish that we could have a 4 hour practice, just for once.
I also feel that we don't work as much as group as I would like to. It's very often that I come to practice with ½ of a song written already, and the other members seldom give me any critique. I'm a guy that feels that if there's any problem, shit's gotta be talked through right there and then so I tend to bring it up. The other guys in my band are somewhat shy and quiet people. So after two years I'm just now getting used to being the main songwriter. There has been a lot of argue in my band, but I'm just now starting to feel that we're focused and have worked on our less good sides.
Sorry for hi-jacking the thread, but I thought this is somewhat on the subject. ;)
My Fondest band memories are of when Chainsaw and I would jam all day with G-Spot in his Garage. We would jam for a while then go play some Super Mario Kart then Jam then get Ice Cream then Jam Then break out the Beers then jam then etc etc it was an all day thing and it ended much too soon the band that is. :(
Quote from: Lumpy on August 02, 2011, 02:49:23 AM
"As most of you know, one of the biggest things about being in a functioning marriage is the ability to tolerate other people."
But sometimes a divorce is the best thing for everybody. Same dif.
Yep, true enough. After my post, I realized it sorta sounded like I was addressing your particular situation Lumps, but it was more just a general observation on band relationshits (no typo!)
Quote from: Metal and Beer on August 02, 2011, 03:47:55 AM
Quote from: Lumpy on August 02, 2011, 02:49:23 AM
"As most of you know, one of the biggest things about being in a functioning marriage is the ability to tolerate other people."
But sometimes a divorce is the best thing for everybody. Same dif.
Yep, true enough. After my post, I realized it sorta sounded like I was addressing your particular situation Lumps, but it was more just a general observation on band relationshits (no typo!)
I should say that I'm not referring to Danny (I know he went through a tough divorce last year or so) but it's true that sometimes, you can still be friends with/love somebody and still not want to be in a band/marriage/business/roommates/whatever with them.
Also, like a relationship, it's practically impossible to explain 'what happened' to other people, and have them totally understand. I didn't blog every single detail because I didn't want to write a book, and my point is not to diss my friend as hard as possible, I just wanted to talk about how things can be complicated.