Apologize for the n00b question.
I have honestly only heard a few guys using it, Nick from Elder, Black Pyramid, Buzzo, and Sunn. I guess what makes it lusted after over, IE, a big muff or fuzzface?
I like it, but won't use it because my amp will sound almost exactly like Bongzilla with a Rat going through it.
I hate that shit. It NAILS someone elses tone, well enough for someone to call you on it. I've had a love-hate with the RAT for a long while, just because of that.
I've heard the rat sound good and bad, it really depends on the amp. Tho I like my women like I like my bowling balls, Heavy with big holes. So the Big Muff for me.
I first heard a Rat used for a bass setup in the late 80's and that is the tone i have tried to get with my bass setup. Lots of low end, gritty distortion , and lots of definition in the notes you play. However, my Rat 2 does NOT sound like that one from the late 80's at all, especially through a bass setup! I have had mine for a few years and i like for my guitar rig to spice up leads or when i want that extra punch. They are very cool pedals due the simplicity of them mostly.
I used to have a Keeley modded one that could do high gain crunchy heavy metal along with more stoner/sludge sounds and it was good at hard/heavy rock and overdrive tones too. I can't remember why I sold it ???
The Rat seems to me almost like a cross between fuzz & distortion. It's a lot "tighter" than a big muff or fuzz face. I have a couple, but I still love my muff the most. There's a certain tone I get from my muff (a mid range roaring/growling/howling kinda sound) that I can't get with any other pedal.
Trey Azagthoth used them, and that's good enough for me. Thanks Hayseed!
I have used one for years and the only ways I see myself not using it is if I buy a high-end clone or end up getting an amp that has enough distortion on it's own. To me, it is just a very natural feeling distortion which cleans up well based on guitar volume or even just using a light touch w/ my right hand but it also has a very aggressive bite to it. It can do sludge and fast palm muted stuff all on the same setting and I haven't found a lot of distortions that can do that well.
Love it for bass. I have one from the 90's thats so beat to shit its almost all brown except for the face. But I LOVE the tone. My Big Muff's (USSR & USA) have long since been retired by this beast, not to mention it's outperformed a few Boutique guy's & every other dirt pedal I've EVER had on my board. It does everything from nice Overdrive all the way up to Fully Saturated Distortion & its the last one that remains.
The secret for me is not so much the pedal itself its the way it works with others pushing them or taking from them and then pusing it out with the Volume dimed. The key is the settings I set the Filter fairly high,
Distortion to taste and as said before Volume dimed.
My main tone is P Bass > Old QTron > 90's RAT II > My Sunn Concert Basses Power Amp Input & 15"s
& I Love It
AND nobody mentioned that it glows in the goddamned dark!
I believe that is the number 1 reason for its popularity!
Quote from: hayseed on March 17, 2011, 11:10:53 AM
AND nobody mentioned that it glows in the goddamned dark!
I believe that is the number 1 reason for its popularity!
LED's do that.
Quote from: SunnO))) on March 17, 2011, 11:12:24 AM
Quote from: hayseed on March 17, 2011, 11:10:53 AM
AND nobody mentioned that it glows in the goddamned dark!
I believe that is the number 1 reason for its popularity!
LED's do that.
Not mine. It glows with pure voodoo magic!
the lm308 rat is my favorite distortion. fuzzface and big muff are fuzzes. when i want fuzz I use a fuzz, when i want distortion I use distortion. sorry for the nitpicking but there is a big diff betwen OD, fuzz and distortion. what makes the rat a great distortion? Not fizzy, dynamic response, versatile from slight grit to full on distortion, it just sounds better to me than a Dist+, a boss, my way huge, all of which sound great in their own right. I knew a guy who would use them on vocals for juts a slight bit of grit and it sounded really great.
Quote from: Chovie D on March 17, 2011, 01:26:23 PM
the lm308 rat is my favorite distortion. fuzzface and big muff are fuzzes. when i want fuzz I use a fuzz, when i want distortion I use distortion. sorry for the nitpicking but there is a big diff betwen OD, fuzz and distortion. what makes the rat a great distortion? Not fizzy, dynamic response, versatile from slight grit to full on distortion, it just sounds better to me than a Dist+, a boss, my way huge, all of which sound great in their own right. I knew a guy who would use them on vocals for juts a slight bit of grit and it sounded really great.
^^^ ABSOLUTE TRUTH! Last nite myself and beardofchutulu were jamming and we utilized all 3: my RAT2, Bass Big Muff, and an Ibanez Tubescreamer. I thought that i wanted the Muff or Rat for my bass sound but the Tubescreamer blew them both out of the water! It preserved most of my low end, definition of individual notes and gave me the "growl" that i wanted. The Muff was way to fuzzy for me but great for sludgy doom stuff(i am going for more of a Lemmy sound right now). The Rat had a very "classic" metal distortion but it ate my low end. It did however sound awesome with beardofchutulu's Peavey VTM60 setup, better that the Tubescreamer in fact! Needless to say we swapped pedals for a bit. I would like to find a really good bass OD though.
Nothing wrong with being picky...more players should understand the differences between the 3 and playing them next to each other is a great way to decide which is the sound you want.
(Edit:BTW- In no way do i think it makes anybody stupid to not know which sound is which. I never realized the extreme difference until i had one of each in front of me.)
Well I never knew it was a true distortion pedal. It always sounded like a hybrid of a fuzz/distortion and not a overdrive/distortion pedal.
If I had to choose between my TS10 and the Rat right now, I'd go Rat. The Screamer is nice, does a good job of rounding out the sound...but doesn't really add anything. the Rat...hoo boy. I can now get the 3 sounds I need out of a single channel amp. Rat wins.
Quote from: Instant Dan on March 17, 2011, 02:33:50 PM
Well I never knew it was a true distortion pedal. It always sounded like a hybrid of a fuzz/distortion and not a overdrive/distortion pedal.
It gets pretty fuzzy on some settings, esp. w/ gain/distortion cranked up so if it sounds like a fuzz/distortion hybrid to you, it is. Though I've always thought of it as a straight distortion which can be used as a sort of gnarly OD w/ the gain turned down. So... damn versatile pedal, I guess.
My understanding of the differences is fairly vague, google could do a better job of explaining it.
My basic understanding is this:
overdrive(tubescreamer)-I use it when I want a stones or replacement like tone which these days is ALL of my rythm playing. It adds grit but doesnt just overly color your tone. The idea is you are just pushing your tubes a little bit 'overdriving' them into slight distortion. I like to set the gain very low and the level very high to acheive this sound. When you set the gain too high it goes into fizz more. These effect are usually but not always opamp based (chip)
STevie Ray Vaugh would be a famous overdrive user example.
Distortion (Rat)-I use this when I am playing any kind of hard rock or metal. Its tighter and smoother than fuzz and handles chords very well. it colors your tone almost completely. I beleive that technically the diff between fuzz and distortion is the waveform with fuzz being a square waveform and distortion being rounded. not sure bout that. these are usally opamp (chip) based effect. Rat has a chp, lm308 to be specific
Fuzz- is a strange one and they vary alot. I use fuzz for psych and Doom. They do not handle chords well other than perhaps powerchords. They are "looser" and wilder than distortions. They can be very raspy or splatty (fuzztone, fuzz factory, fuzzrite)which isnt smething i associate with a good distortion, but other ones can be very smooth (superfuzz, fuzzface). These effects are usally transistor based (no chip)
so thats my limited understanding and how I use them.
If I want to sound really pscyhedelic (single notes)or lay down huge slabs of doom (powerchords)...its fuzz. If I want to be tight and crisp or play any knd of chord with more than two notes its distortion. If I want slightly gritty grind its a tubescreamer. depending on your amp a tubescreamer can get fairly aggressive and yeild ac/dc like tones. You see angus uses no pedals so its just the sound of an ovedriven tube amp, which is what a tubescreamer does, it 'overdrives"...a tubescreamer will alllow you to get that tone without cranking your marshall to tthe top. a fine example can be heard if you have an epi valve jr. and a tubescreamer. Valve Jr. at noon on the volume dial, tubescreamer at noon on the gain dial, and level at about 2 or 3 = instant ac/dc.
Like i said tho, youtube or google could probably give a much better analsis than myself.
theres a couple effects i cant put my finger on.. blues driver, duncan twin tube..what the hell are they? like frank siad I guess whatever you want them to be.
That is an excellent description of the differences... It had actually never occurred to me that you could define the effect type by the type of circuit it used.
I have the Stomp Under Foot Screaming Panda. It's a cross between an LM308 Rat and a Russian Muff. I looked up the number on the IC chip and it did list as being extremely similar to the LM308. It's a cool sound and I can get clean boost, Marshally O.D., and full on high-gain Dist. out of it. I've played the Keeley and Ruetz(sp?) modded Rats and they're pretty cool too. I lived in Kalamazoo, Mich where they used to be made and you can find Rat pedals all over town there.
Quote from: Instant Dan on March 17, 2011, 02:33:50 PM
Well I never knew it was a true distortion pedal. It always sounded like a hybrid of a fuzz/distortion and not a overdrive/distortion pedal.
Same here.. Then again, they call the Big Muff PI a distortion pedal... I don't know... whatever.
Quote from: liquidsmoke on March 17, 2011, 12:04:16 AM
I used to have a Keeley modded one that could do high gain crunchy heavy metal along with more stoner/sludge sounds and it was good at hard/heavy rock and overdrive tones too. I can't remember why I sold it ???
Perhaps I just need to try a modified one to get a different sound, I've only tried someone's right out of the box...aren't the pre-1992 models the best to mess with circuit-wise?
Quote from: Wesogkan on March 20, 2011, 09:09:32 PM
Quote from: liquidsmoke on March 17, 2011, 12:04:16 AM
I used to have a Keeley modded one that could do high gain crunchy heavy metal along with more stoner/sludge sounds and it was good at hard/heavy rock and overdrive tones too. I can't remember why I sold it ???
Perhaps I just need to try a modified one to get a different sound, I've only tried someone's right out of the box...aren't the pre-1992 models the best to mess with circuit-wise?
If your going to mod it. Keeley says...
"We will still mod Rats with serial numbers under 300,000 (pre-early 2008) for $65. If your Rat's serial is over 300,000, we'll mod it, but we have to charge $99 because of the extra work these units require."
But really, if you get one from the early 90's I don't see why you'd even have to mess w/ the circuit at all.
I use one from that time un-modified for bass.
The Keeley mods make it a more versatile pedal. I am not sure it necessarily sounds better but it sounds good and a little different, plus more variations.
Variation is just what I need...and I think I found one on craigslist. Freakin' sweet.
Quote from: grimniggzy on March 21, 2011, 09:28:16 AM
But really, if you get one from the early 90's I don't see why you'd even have to mess w/ the circuit at all.
I use one from that time un-modified for bass.
The Keeley version has three modes, classic RAT, Fat RAT and Mighty Mouse. The classic mode cuts a lot of low end so I never use it, for me the Fat RAT mode is far superior. The Mighty Mouse mode also has more low end compared to classic but less distortion on tap. It's a great pedal, can't recommend it enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Co_RAT
This will link you to every mod. The Ruetz is the easiest one.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Brookman/ProCo.jpg)
Think $75 is too much for a cosmetically beat to crap, but otherwise fine sounding pedal from the mid '80's?
Not to get off topic or anything, but has anyone heard a Boss MT-2 with the Keely mod? I'm sooooo curious as to whether it's worth it to send it in or try to mod mine myself. I know people freakin' hate them but I've been using one for at least 15 years.
I wouldn't say $75 is a bad price at all
Haven't ever heard a Metal Zone with the Keeley Mod, but it's supposed to be ridiculous sounding.
I think its actually alright sounding to begin with. My brother used to use one when we played in a band together a few years ago but he ended up ditching it.
Quote from: Wesogkan on March 23, 2011, 11:38:06 AM
Think $75 is too much for a cosmetically beat to crap, but otherwise fine sounding pedal from the mid '80's?
Not to get off topic or anything, but has anyone heard a Boss MT-2 with the Keely mod? I'm sooooo curious as to whether it's worth it to send it in or try to mod mine myself. I know people freakin' hate them but I've been using one for at least 15 years.
There's nothing wrong with Boss pedals as long as you mod them. Keeley wouldn't bother with a circuit if it wasn't worth it.
Some of them sound great w/o mods. Heavy Metal pedal is great and so is the Hyper Fuzz. The biggest problem is they break.
Shit, I even like the DS-1 (Al from OM agrees)
also, the Boss OC-2 is pretty much the only affordable, easily atainable analog octave pedal worth a damn.
My Metal Zone has been a tank so far...so the mod is looking better and better. With any luck I'll have an older RAT pedal tonight, we'll see how that sounds.
'87 RAT achieved...cannot believe what these are going for on Ebay, ridiculous.
I'm guessing the 3 mods are: Stock diodes, LED's and then No diodes? you should take a gut shot and post it.
Quote from: Volume on March 23, 2011, 03:05:43 AM
Quote from: grimniggzy on March 21, 2011, 09:28:16 AM
But really, if you get one from the early 90's I don't see why you'd even have to mess w/ the circuit at all.
I use one from that time un-modified for bass.
The Keeley version has three modes, classic RAT, Fat RAT and Mighty Mouse. The classic mode cuts a lot of low end so I never use it, for me the Fat RAT mode is far superior. The Mighty Mouse mode also has more low end compared to classic but less distortion on tap. It's a great pedal, can't recommend it enough.
Ta Daaaaa....
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as someone else stated, trey uses one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i love me some morbid angel:)
Trey rocks the rack version of it.
(http://images.pedalheaven.com/Images/8531131399324.jpg)
The MT-2 has always sounded kind of balls to me. The HM-2 is where my heart lies, but it isn't the pedal for every occasion.
Quote from: spookstrickland on March 23, 2011, 09:38:51 PM
I'm guessing the 3 mods are: Stock diodes, LED's and then No diodes? you should take a gut shot and post it.
Yeah, I think I've read something like that somewhere, but the caps and the IC chip are also changed. Don't know much about electronics so I can't tell from the pics Wesogcan posted.
I just see the one set of SI diodes unless there are some mounted out of site on a switch or something.
Thanks
Quote from: Wesogkan on March 23, 2011, 11:09:15 PM
Ta Daaaaa....
Quote from: SunnO))) on March 24, 2011, 01:03:32 AM
Trey rocks the rack version of it.
(http://images.pedalheaven.com/Images/8531131399324.jpg)
The MT-2 has always sounded kind of balls to me. The HM-2 is where my heart lies, but it isn't the pedal for every occasion.
It's (The HM-2) the only pedal for Shoegaze and Entombed.
i have two rats (lm308 and a newer version). i should have them put into one box to use them together. hmm . . . .
Got the power supply for my RAT and tried it out today...I can get a killer Sleep sound out of it, but not enough distortion, clarity and sustain...so I chained it together with the Boss MT-2...muhahahaha. At first the high end totally dropped when the RAT was switched on, but after some tweaking I think I might be pleased. When/if I've ever got the cash I'll probably get the Keeley mod on both.
glad you're liking it. you got a good deal for an 80's one.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/25im0au.jpg)
dont mod a vintage 80's rat. just...please....dont. :'(
Its not that they are super precious, but as you saw they do command some $ on ebay. and really, an 80s rat needs nothing done to it unless you cannot live without an led. your basically just borking up one more vintage peice and removing it from the market. IN a few more years the vintage pedals will even be worth MUCH more provided they havent been given the "Full Monty Mod" or some other horseshit.
Quote from: Chovie D on March 30, 2011, 01:34:28 PM
dont mod a vintage 80's rat. just...please....dont. :'(
Its not that they are super precious, but as you saw they do command some $ on ebay. and really, an 80s rat needs nothing done to it unless you cannot live without an led. your basically just borking up one more vintage peice and removing it from the market. IN a few more years the vintage pedals will even be worth MUCH more provided they havent been given the "Full Monty Mod" or some other horseshit.
^^^I agree^^^. why hack apart a good thing?......
I'm getting a Turbo RAT LM308 & all delivered today.
Figured it couldn't hurt to run my RAT II into it and see how that sounds but I mainly got it as a backup or to use on an on-the-go pedalboard.
I've got an '84 Rat that, although sounds great, has been put to pasture in favor of the R/I Swollen Pickle.
No shit? I hate the high overtones on the swollen pickle.
I almost got a Swollen Pickle but decided to go with a Ronsound '75 Hairpie AKA Ram Head Big Muff, with a 3-way mid switch. Looking at the Hoof Fuzz and Stomp Under Foot Pumpkin Pi next.
Still need to try out a Rat though, with the LM308 chip, to see how it sounds.
Quote from: SunnO))) on March 31, 2011, 12:24:28 AM
No shit? I hate the high overtones on the swollen pickle.
I changed the interior settings from whatever the factory's were and, viola!, a great sounding fuzz. Put it in front on my JCM800 and get a tone that can stop gravity. No shit.
Sounds better (in my setup) than my:
NYC Muff
Black Muff
FZ-2
HM-2
DS-1
Rat
French Toast
Fulltone GT-500
Quote from: Instant Dan on March 16, 2011, 07:24:48 PM
Apologize for the n00b question.
I have honestly only heard a few guys using it, Nick from Elder, Black Pyramid, Buzzo, and Sunn. I guess what makes it lusted after over, IE, a big muff or fuzzface?
Actually, I have two of them, an 80's one that's beat to fuck, and a 90's one that is beat to fuck, but I never use either. I don't even know where they are at this point.
Quote from: Chovie D on March 30, 2011, 01:34:28 PM
dont mod a vintage 80's rat. just...please....dont. :'(
Its not that they are super precious, but as you saw they do command some $ on ebay. and really, an 80s rat needs nothing done to it unless you cannot live without an led. your basically just borking up one more vintage peice and removing it from the market. IN a few more years the vintage pedals will even be worth MUCH more provided they havent been given the "Full Monty Mod" or some other horseshit.
Ok, I've taken your objections into consideration and thought it over. I'll probably leave the RAT alone, but may mod the MT-2, I have 2 of those in case I don't like it. And I'm really eying tearing apart my Crybaby wah and rebuilding it custom...not that I use it.
I want to replace my hm-2 with a rat. Hm-2 gets totally lost with a second guitarist.
Quote from: Wesogkan on March 31, 2011, 04:28:52 PM
Quote from: Chovie D on March 30, 2011, 01:34:28 PM
dont mod a vintage 80's rat. just...please....dont. :'(
Its not that they are super precious, but as you saw they do command some $ on ebay. and really, an 80s rat needs nothing done to it unless you cannot live without an led. your basically just borking up one more vintage peice and removing it from the market. IN a few more years the vintage pedals will even be worth MUCH more provided they havent been given the "Full Monty Mod" or some other horseshit.
Ok, I've taken your objections into consideration and thought it over. I'll probably leave the RAT alone, but may mod the MT-2, I have 2 of those in case I don't like it. And I'm really eying tearing apart my Crybaby wah and rebuilding it custom...not that I use it.
hell yeah, mod the MT2. I bought one of those and a digitech grunge pedal for 20$ for both
feel free to mod the crybaby too, those are stil cheap, plentiful and can actually use the mods.
I juts se no reason to eff with an 80's rat.
regarding the swollen pickle convo above. i have one, its pretty felxible and versatile as is without the interiror trim pots, but I'll have to give em a try Jake. nothing to loose, cheers