Fuzz through tube vs. fuzz through solid-state

Baltar · February 19, 2011, 03:30:30 PM

I've seen more than a few cats on this board and the last one make the argument that if you play through a fuzz, it won't make a difference if you use a solid-state amp. I guess they argue that if you use a fuzz you're "wasting" a tube amp. Here are my arguments:

1. I've always used pedals, I like the immediacy of getting my tone through almost any amp, within reason.
2. I also don't like hauling a heavy tube head around if I'm going to jam at someone else's place on someone else's amp.
3. I have room-mates as well and I can't I have a cranked up tube amp in my house just to get "that sound".

My buddy back in Detroit that can't leave his fucking house w/o his Traynor Voicemaster (battleship anchor). He is pretty OCD about his tone. My last amp was a Sunn Sceptre and I absolutely had to use a fuzz through it, but it had a lot of headroom. I think it sounded great with my Hairpie and my Supafuzz clone. Is there any technical info that says "yes a pedal through a tube amp is a waste"? Or is this a hair-splitter/cork sniffer situation?

Discö Rice · February 19, 2011, 04:42:38 PM

Tube amps sound better. I'll take the better sounding amp.

nonoman · February 19, 2011, 04:50:13 PM

This should get interesting.

I've been told that tube amps amplify even order harmonics while ss amplify odd order.

Discö Rice · February 19, 2011, 05:03:01 PM

Quote from: nonoman on February 19, 2011, 04:50:13 PM
This should get interesting.

I've been told that tube amps amplify even order harmonics while ss amplify odd order.

Zuh?

nonoman · February 19, 2011, 05:05:22 PM

Exactly!

Baltar · February 19, 2011, 05:12:57 PM

Yep hair-splitting time.

VOLVO))) · February 19, 2011, 05:19:25 PM

Odd order harmonics... look up the harmonic percolator. Steve Albini. That is odd order. They are the ugly ones. None of my ss amps sound ugly.

Discö Rice · February 19, 2011, 06:20:05 PM

Quote from: SunnO))) on February 19, 2011, 05:19:25 PM
Odd order harmonics... look up the harmonic percolator. Steve Albini. That is odd order. They are the ugly ones. None of my ss amps sound ugly.

Hmm... I do like that Albini sound...

Harmonic percolator? I don't know what that is, but if solid state amps come with the ability to brew coffee I'm in.

clockwork green · February 19, 2011, 07:00:04 PM

Depends on how you run your tube amp as well. My tube amps are always cranked volume wise with the preamp gain fairly low but the amp is still fairly dirty but I've also eaten up all of the headroom in the power tubes so adding gain adds saturation while still staying dynamic. The problem is that many fuzzes sound like crap into this kind of amp especially with lower tunings and humbuckers...it works great for Hendrix stuff but that's a different story. If you run your tube amp and you solid state amp super clean with tons of headroom left it'll often sound pretty close...probably a little smoother on most tube amps and a little more abrasive on solid state amps. It's all about what you're going for. While I typically like tube amps much, much more I don't think Greg Ginn would have sounded as cool on most tube amps.

peyotepeddler · February 19, 2011, 10:24:44 PM

you can get kick ass tones out of ss and tube, i'm not going to argue about that

but, i prefer the "feel" of a nice tube amp, i'm sure hemi can explain it, but there is a definite difference, whats it called sponginess? tube sag? i forget

Jor el · February 19, 2011, 10:37:49 PM

"Tube Sag" just made me laugh like Butt-Head.

spookstrickland · February 19, 2011, 10:57:10 PM

I think a Big Muff through a SS Bass head is about the heaviest sound on earth.

VOLVO))) · February 19, 2011, 11:36:46 PM

80% of the time I'm running SS heads. I bet if I A/B'd a couple of heads with the same cab, you wouldn't know the difference unless I told you.

Ranbat · February 20, 2011, 10:21:12 AM

I guess some might consider it a waste because you're covering the natural breakup of a tube amp when you use a fuzz pedal. I'm a solid state fan though as well as tube. If I want a more volume and a more natural breakup, I go for tube. If I want high gain or super clean, I prefer solid state.

Hemisaurus · February 20, 2011, 11:04:16 AM

I'm posting this, on the basis that it's pure opinion, but to my ears running effects into tubes is a good thing, they help smooth out the rough edges with the way a tube compresses the transients. The only thing I have ever heard that approximates this compression without tubes is the Colorsound Sustain module (never heard the SupaSustain) it uses a LED / photoresistor feedback circuit that makes an Overdrive sound glorious.

I also have never found a bass tube head that sounds good, they are either too clean, or run out of power before they get to a good stage volume. Tried the Ampeg's, Peavey's, Mesa's, Traynor, I even sold my old MusicMan. I have had some fun using guitar heads hrough bass cabs, but they have the fuzz, but not enough balls to get real loud.

As to the old odd/even harmonics discussion, I'll add a little fuel to the flame by saying that according to Aspen Pittman, tubes are low in dynamic distortion, whereas solid state devices have much higher readings in that, which is why so many audiophiles also dig tubes, they are clean, very clean, super clean.

Baltar · February 20, 2011, 06:29:54 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on February 20, 2011, 11:04:16 AM
I'm posting this, on the basis that it's pure opinion, but to my ears running effects into tubes is a good thing, they help smooth out the rough edges with the way a tube compresses the transients. The only thing I have ever heard that approximates this compression without tubes is the Colorsound Sustain module (never heard the SupaSustain) it uses a LED / photoresistor feedback circuit that makes an Overdrive sound glorious.

I also have never found a bass tube head that sounds good, they are either too clean, or run out of power before they get to a good stage volume. Tried the Ampeg's, Peavey's, Mesa's, Traynor, I even sold my old MusicMan. I have had some fun using guitar heads hrough bass cabs, but they have the fuzz, but not enough balls to get real loud.

That's the answer I was looking for. Like I said, my last amp was a Sunn Sceptre and it really needed a fuzz because the break-up sounded like crap. And that didn't happed until 9. I had a MiG50 for a while and that didn't break up 'til 5 or 6.
As to the old odd/even harmonics discussion, I'll add a little fuel to the flame by saying that according to Aspen Pittman, tubes are low in dynamic distortion, whereas solid state devices have much higher readings in that, which is why so many audiophiles also dig tubes, they are clean, very clean, super clean.

Mike_Sims · February 20, 2011, 06:53:35 PM

I think it really just boils down to what sounds good to your ears. I've gotten some bad ass tones out of a Muff and a God damn Line 6 Spider III combo, yes, a Spider III, that I couldn't get on my Model T for the life of me. And of course, I've gotten extremely monsterous tones on the T's that I can't get out of combos. It comes down to your personal taste, if it sounds good to you, DO IT!

peyotepeddler · February 20, 2011, 10:35:58 PM

Quote from: Jor el on February 19, 2011, 10:37:49 PM

"Tube Sag" just made me laugh like Butt-Head.

i write my own jokes ha ha

Lumpy · February 21, 2011, 01:13:25 AM

I assumed the criticism was that you're paying a lot for "good tone" (the way purists and tone snobs describe it) or a "signature" tone (Matamp) and then fucking it up by putting your Rat pedal in front of it.

IMO, tube amps are cool but not essential for the most extreme sounding bands... more important for bands that play loud and clean with natural breakup, at least part of time (YOB) or all of the time (Khanate). I don't understand why somebody would buy a Matamp for 2000 dollars if they are going to use a Big Muff all the time... IMO, you could do that with a less expensive amp.

ROWDYBEER · February 21, 2011, 09:01:41 AM

There cannot possibly be anything better than a good dirt pedal pounding my v4 in the valves demanding tonal bliss. There's something living and breathing in a good tube amp that interacts with quality pedals.
Of course this is all my opinion.

VOLVO))) · February 21, 2011, 10:27:28 AM

Gonna pee on someone's fire, putting a pedal in front of your tube amp is just putting a solid state preamp in front of your tube preamp, just sayin'.

Baltar · February 22, 2011, 12:03:15 PM

Two words: Roger Mayer and the Hendrix guy helped a little too.

Hemisaurus · February 22, 2011, 12:21:52 PM

Err without Jim Marshall, there would have been nothing for Roger Mayers dinky box to be hooked up to

blackkrosses · February 22, 2011, 04:21:15 PM

Voicing has everything to do with it. Depends on the amp, depends on the pedal.

Chances are if you've seen a band playing through tube Fenders and were dirty they had a fuzz/dirt/boost in front of the amp. That goes for any band from the 60's and 70's as well.

justinhedrick · February 22, 2011, 04:35:20 PM

plus i think it depends what fuzz. i've heard a band that came through town back in the early 2000s where he ran a flying V into an MXR distortion plus into a old crown power amp and a ratty stack of marshall cabs. it sounded . . . suprisingly awesome. but i think a lot of it had to do with the fact they were tuned down to like A and he used only the neck pickup.

but i'd say that generally fuzz into a solid state amp will sound more "in your face" instead of smooth since that is the nature of solid state amps.