To downtune or to not downtune? (clarity issues)

[MichaelZodiac]

We used to tune to C but since we're playing on better gear at rehearsal (read: louder) in about the same small space, we have trouble getting the same clarity we used to have so we tried standard for once, the sound was clearer but I liked the sound we had. Can this be due the increase in volume in a small space so the sound just bounces around or is it the amp (which is a bit noisey but that much)? And how can we fix this?

[justinhedrick]

We used to tune to C but since we're playing on better gear at rehearsal (read: louder) in about the same small space, we have trouble getting the same clarity we used to have so we tried standard for once, the sound was clearer but I liked the sound we had. Can this be due the increase in volume in a small space so the sound just bounces around or is it the amp (which is a bit noisey but that much)? And how can we fix this?

by tuning down you are changing the midrange (and high/low range) of your instrument. it is clearer because tuned to C you had a bunch of low mid buildup (usually referred to as mud in a negative manner).

[AgentofOblivion]

My opinion is that it's an unnecessary default for heavy music.  If you're doing it for a particular reason and just can't achieve the sound you want at standard tuning then so be it.  But to tune down just because that's what's typical for the genre just increases the chances you'll sound the same as everyone else.  Not to mention that most guitar designs are presumably optimized for a standard tuning.  This is not to say you can't pull it off, I just think some thought should be given to the decision because you are right, clarity is gained at standard tuning.  Also, cut back the gain on your amp and that will help a lot as well.  It won't sound as full when you play by yourself, but it will be cool with the band.  I'm speaking in general terms of course because I've never heard you guys.  But most bands I see use far too much gain and it ends up sounding like a wall of noise with no clarity.

[Mr. Foxen]

Main thing is have the bass covered by the bass, and cut bass from guitars.

[moose23]

You could also try C#, we found that half step up brings in a lot of clarity. We also have quite a thin guitar sound so the bass gives the riffs a lot of the meat without getting too muddy.

[liquidsmoke]

Thicker strings?

[RacerX]

Yeah, I think you boys took a BIG step (2 full steps, actually) here. Why not try C#, D, or drop D. Eb is a solid tuning, too, depending upon the application.

[Corey Y]

I don't have any problem with clarity using baritone tuning, but I do use heavier gauge strings and make sure everything has a proper setup. Also, it's important to remember that more gain and more low end eq doesn't necessarily equal heavier tone. So when I'm writing music that's downtuned I typically use less gain and cut more very low frequencies, to keep things sounding tight and clear.

[Lumpy]

But most bands I see use far too much gain and it ends up sounding like a wall of noise with no clarity.

Applauded.

Great thread.

[themusketking]

As a bass player I ended up paying more attention to my mid frequencies and cut.  I use a lot of mids and a jazz bass to really attack. I still get solid low end, but it allows my guitarist to keep his lows and assloads of gain without it being muddy.  It's all in how the instruments compliment each other tonally. Adjust your tone knobs during practice and not individually. What sounds the best with everyone else playing and not what sounds the best by yourself. 

[zachoff]

A lot of folks boost bass & tuning to C while boosting bass is a bad combo IMO.  I've found that keeping things relatively flat when tuning down & maybe boosting mids helps for clarity a lot... At least for bass.  I've also found that I need different settings and/or amps/cabs for different guitar rigs.  A V4 occupies a different space than a Marshall which is different than a Dual Rec & I need to EQ things to fit in that space.

[Andrew Blakk]

That's why I really like my Musket fuzz. We're playing in drop-c and still what a quite clean and tight sound but not a sort of metal tight sound. Since I can controll the bottom end with the fuzz pedal there's stilll quite a lot of room for the bass drum and the bass. It hard down there lol... And at least what we have learned is that it's better to have a great overall sound that everyones fighting for the space. And luckily I'm the only gutiarist. But still you have to compromize.

BUT we do have a 100db maximum level at the gig places here in Sweden so you need to work on your sound a bit extra because of that as well.

For me the downtuning ad another texture to is than planing in regular tuning. So stick to it if that's want you want to do.

A lot of great suggestions in the topic as well!

[spookstrickland]

This is why I like my Strat so much for tunning down.  Strats are naturally bright but once you tune them down they sound just right.  I like em in the D432 range but have gone as low as Drop A432 and it still sounded great and clear.

[fallen]

One thing to consider is that there is no rule in music that says everyone in the band has to tune down to the same drop tuning.

Two guitars tuned one or two steps apart or one in a drop tuning with another in a lower standard tuning can sound awesome and forces you not to play all unison parts or every song in the key of your lowest string.

I also like it when the bass is tuned a step up from the guitar which means that the bass has to play an octave up in unison on the lowest chord but is down in a lower octave as soon as you hit a chord second fret or above.

[liquidsmoke]

BUT we do have a 100db maximum level at the gig places here in Sweden so you need to work on your sound a bit extra because of that as well.

Aren't hard rock and metal drums usually way above 100db? Or it is a distance from the stage thing?

[Metal and Beer]

One thing to consider is that there is no rule in music that says everyone in the band has to tune down to the same drop tuning.

Two guitars tuned one or two steps apart or one in a drop tuning with another in a lower standard tuning can sound awesome and forces you not to play all unison parts or every song in the key of your lowest string.

I also like it when the bass is tuned a step up from the guitar which means that the bass has to play an octave up in unison on the lowest chord but is down in a lower octave as soon as you hit a chord second fret or above.

I've noticed Weedeater do this sometimes, and I think they switch off. Last clip I saw, Dixie was in drop D but Shep was in standard D.

[Chovie D]

I'm playing in drop A so the bass player can just treat his A string like he would his E in regular tuning. bass player is old school and doesnt drop tune. I dont  think the bassist in my old band drop tuned either., could be wrong.

In standard tuning, you can get a drop tuning-esque sound by playing a power chord like shape but using four strings, instead of two.
This works best on the lower frets with thick distortion, but you can move it around.
example: G chord at third fret: bar top two strings(e&a) with index, third finger and pinky on strings 3(d) and 4(g) at fret 5.

[Metal and Beer]

I dig that'n, Choves, or if playing a C chord on the third fret and leaving the low "G" fretted on the fat string (bar chord...D on fifth fret w/ A note on fat string, etc.)

[mutantcolors]

I use C std just because I love how my geetar sounds in that range. Swithcing to P90s and using heavy strings for higher tension really helped me out a lot, and as stated, not dialing gobs of bass into your tone.

[everdrone]

answer: DOWNTUNE!!! 

it is the best! I always downtune to c# like Iommi

[rayinreverse]

You can be heavy without down tuning. Akimbo uses E standard I believe.

[mutantcolors]

This is E so don't get me started on people who think you have to do it to be heavy.

[Chovie D]

I dig that'n, Choves, or if playing a C chord on the third fret and leaving the low "G" fretted on the fat string (bar chord...D on fifth fret w/ A note on fat string, etc.)

exactly.

[liquidsmoke]

This is E so don't get me started on people who think you have to do it to be heavy.

Truth. However I myself find it easier to sound heavy if I tune lower. Part of it is the extra low range, part of it is the thicker strings, part of it is the extra lows and low mids, part of it is magic 

[RacerX]

part of it is magic 

No, it's not. Magical thinking is a poor tool to use when making musical decisions.