The Jam Room Blog Thread.

[fallen]

I have some humbucker sized Mean 90s. They sound great.

[liquidsmoke]

Considering that some bass cabs are loaded with PA type speakers I am wondering what the differences are between them and 'bass speakers'. Also, assuming that speaker sensitivity rating isn't as important as cab design for loudness and low end. For guitar I probably wouldn't want anything under 100db but most bass speakers seem to be.

[Corey Y]

Considering that some bass cabs are loaded with PA type speakers I am wondering what the differences are between them and 'bass speakers'. Also, assuming that speaker sensitivity rating isn't as important as cab design for loudness and low end. For guitar I probably wouldn't want anything under 100db but most bass speakers seem to be.

Most bass cabs use one or several full range drivers, where most PA cabs typically use a combination of low frequency driver and a tweeter (sometimes also a mid range driver) with a crossover circuit. Of course there's some overlap. Some PA cabs are just one full range driver that has high power handling (like the Eminence Kappa or Beta drivers, which are also popular for bass) and some hi-fi style bass cabs use a LF driver for a sub, with a mid and/or tweeter and crossover. You wouldn't want to use just a LF driver for a bass cab though, since it would sound muffled. A lot of people on bass specific forums think that using a LF is more bass appropriate and will sound "lower", but people in the know generally pipe up to let them know it would just sound like running their amp through a sub.

[RacerX]

Considering that some bass cabs are loaded with PA type speakers I am wondering what the differences are between them and 'bass speakers'. Also, assuming that speaker sensitivity rating isn't as important as cab design for loudness and low end. For guitar I probably wouldn't want anything under 100db but most bass speakers seem to be.

Why do you constantly contemplate using tools unsuitable for the job?

It's like insisting on using a hammer when a screwdriver is required—it might work after a bit, but at what cost?

[mutantcolors]

There may yet be improvements upon this here "wheel" contraption...

[RacerX]

There may yet be improvements upon this here "wheel" contraption...

Why improve on the wheel?

Use a lever, instead!! Make it work...

[VOLVO)))]

Sigh. Eminence Delta 15B. Buy some. Put them in a 2x15, and use it.

[RacerX]

NO! NO!!! IT CAN'T BE THAT SIMPLE!!

[RAGER]

Nothing wrong at all with being inquisitive.  Dude just wants to know the ins and outs of gear.  Much can be learned through asking questions.

[RacerX]

After years of this, dude does not seem to be learning, hence my frustration.

[liquidsmoke]

Holy Christ... not trying to reinvent anything.

One option for Avatar's current 115 is the Eminence Kappalite 3015LF NEO but if you go to the Eminence website THAT SPEAKER IS NOT LISTED WITH THE 'BASS GUITAR' SPEAKERS, it's listed here with the 'pro-audio' speakers-

http://www.eminence.com/pro-audio/neodymium-series/

This is a tad confusing. It's great that you guys all learned everything there was to learn about gear 20 years ago though, I'm happy for you.

[liquidsmoke]

Sigh. Eminence Delta 15B. Buy some. Put them in a 2x15, and use it.

Sigh? All bass players use this model when loading cabs huh?

http://www.eminence.com/pro-audio/american-standard/?size=15#speakers

Also,

"There are 24 unique models available in our American Standard series. Each was designed for versatility in a range of applications. From 6.5-15" models with applications ranging from standard sub-woofers, two-way enclosures, and coaxials, to truncated line array models, monitor woofers, and high performance midranges setting records for output in car audio, no other loudspeaker line provides more choices, power handling, performance, and reliability for the price."


But I'm just a dumbfuck who doesn't learn anything.


I'M
TERRIBLY
SORRY
FOR
WASTING
EVERYONE'S
VALUABLE
TIME
ASKING
STUPID
QUESTIONS
ABOUT
GEAR

[liquidsmoke]

Considering that some bass cabs are loaded with PA type speakers I am wondering what the differences are between them and 'bass speakers'. Also, assuming that speaker sensitivity rating isn't as important as cab design for loudness and low end. For guitar I probably wouldn't want anything under 100db but most bass speakers seem to be.

Most bass cabs use one or several full range drivers, where most PA cabs typically use a combination of low frequency driver and a tweeter (sometimes also a mid range driver) with a crossover circuit. Of course there's some overlap. Some PA cabs are just one full range driver that has high power handling (like the Eminence Kappa or Beta drivers, which are also popular for bass) and some hi-fi style bass cabs use a LF driver for a sub, with a mid and/or tweeter and crossover. You wouldn't want to use just a LF driver for a bass cab though, since it would sound muffled. A lot of people on bass specific forums think that using a LF is more bass appropriate and will sound "lower", but people in the know generally pipe up to let them know it would just sound like running their amp through a sub.

This makes perfect sense. What I'm wondering about are the differences between full range drivers and 'bass guitar' speakers. I've never thought a sub would sound good in a bass cab.

[liquidsmoke]

Considering that some bass cabs are loaded with PA type speakers I am wondering what the differences are between them and 'bass speakers'. Also, assuming that speaker sensitivity rating isn't as important as cab design for loudness and low end. For guitar I probably wouldn't want anything under 100db but most bass speakers seem to be.

I meant 'full range drivers' when I said 'PA type speakers'.

[everdrone]

I think questions are great!  better to ask then to find out the hard way, in this case being hurting yourself with heavy gear, or having to sell once again and buy replacement

but ya focusing on playing guitar is best, and I am sure liquid is already maxed out in this area as his tunes are good!

[Jake]

It's not about wasting people's time as much as it is ignoring all the seasoned advice. Sure, everyone goes on their own quest for tone. No one is challenging your right to do that. But the hypotheticals in this thread alone are, quite frankly, exhausting. 

[liquidsmoke]

It's not about wasting people's time as much as it is ignoring all the seasoned advice.

This is not correct.

Sure, everyone goes on their own quest for tone. No one is challenging your right to do that. But the hypotheticals in this thread alone are, quite frankly, exhausting. 

I'm sorry to have exhausted you.

[Jake]

You're being defensive and patronizing. But I don't think I've said anything out of line.

[liquidsmoke]

My apologies but I can assure you that much of what I've read on here has soaked in. "Sigh, use this speaker duh" type advice I mostly ignore though.

[Corey Y]

Full range drivers work for either. Stay away from the "LF" models, those are subs. Beyond that, looks at the Xmax spec, because the lower the Xmax (maximum excursion of the cone) the sooner the speaker will bottom out. Most people only look at the power rating, but that is typically the power input that will theoretically melt the voice coil and you're far more likely to bottom out the cone on a low note before you set the driver on fire. For example, comparing the Eminence Delta to the Legend 15" drivers (Legend is bass specific, Delta is "full range", used for both PA and bass by manufacturers). The Delta has about 100W higher power rating, but less than half the Xmax rating. So it will most likely fart out on lows before it exceeds the power of the Legend. It also has a much bigger bump in the high low/low mid area (~100W), so there are trade offs. It also really depends on the enclosure they're going in, since ideally it should be designed around the driver. Especially if it's ported.

[Lumpy]

He doesn't need a stand-alone bass cab, he wants another cab to supplement his guitar cabs. So maybe PA type speakers would be fine. It's hard to say for sure.

I don't think dude is saving money or "pack space" with a multi-cab solution. He may be saving his back though. (ahem, Mesa/Boogie 4x12 straight cab, why not rent one for a test?)

IMO his bass player might be the one who needs more cabs. Let the bass player handle the lowest frequencies and life is simpler and bands sound better IMO. There's a band here who has a guitar player playing super low, and the bass is more low-mids and mids. And they don't sound as good as they could, IMO.

[RacerX]

He doesn't need a stand-alone bass cab, he wants another cab to supplement his guitar cabs. So maybe PA type speakers would be fine. It's hard to say for sure.

Jeez, don't you get started on this shit, too.

He needs fucking guitar speakers. 

[VOLVO)))]

I'm not just throwing shit off my fingers telling you to do a certain thing. I've been using those 15s for guitar for the last five years. It's kind of astonishing you still haven't found a reasonable tone in all this time, and I can plug into a fucking practice amp and sound like I want to.

I'd be willing to bet if I ran a goddamned POD-XT through a PA system at a club, I could find satisfying tone.

PA speakers/bass speakers have always been interchangeable in my eyes long as the numbers work. High handling, high excursion, decent sensitivity, and good frequency range. Using "subs" is only going to yield results up to a certain frequency, or they are crossed over so they only receive a certain frequency, and the rest are routed to better suited speakers.

I mean, hell, if you want to have some fun, build yourself a crossover, send all your lows to a 15 cab, and all your mids/highs to another cab.

I've been using 2 4x12s and a 2x15 for years, I EQ my 2x15 amp fat and round, hardly any highs, and it isn't super ~loud~ but it's definitely the backbone of everything to do with my ~sound~

[Lumpy]

He doesn't need a stand-alone bass cab, he wants another cab to supplement his guitar cabs. So maybe PA type speakers would be fine. It's hard to say for sure.

Jeez, don't you get started on this shit, too.

He needs fucking guitar speakers. 

If I said the sky was blue, you'd wanna argue about that too. 

[RacerX]

Maybe he just needs to refocus:

I am selling my Randall V2 Archetype (custom made for Christian Olde Wolbers -- Fear Factory) It is in excellent condition. $1000 for the amp and the programmable footswitch. Haven't decided if I am selling the Randall Cab in the pictures or not. (guitar not for sale) May be open to trade for an Orange Head-50 watts or more/ Rockerverb

Developed for the guitarist who likes multiple tone shaping options, the highly complex V2 can basically produce any tone you want utilizing a full tube preamp, as well as a classic Randall solid-state preamp.

Review, Specs, and Pricing info From Guitar Player Mag-
BRAND Randall
MODEL V2 Archetype
CHANNELS Three
CONTROLS (Clean channel) Gain, Level, Bass, Middle, Treble (pull boost), Presence. (Overdrive channel) Gain, Level, Bass, Middle, Treble (pull boost), Presence. (Tube Overdrive channel) Gain, Bass, Middle, Level, Attack switch (Loose/Tight), Bright switch. Global Master, Density, Presence controls, 6-band graphic EQ
POWER 400 watts
TUBES Four JJ 12AX7s,
EXTRAS Fan cooling, effects loop w/ series/parallel switch and send and return level controls, slave out with level control, XLR direct out, dual speaker jacks (can accommodate 2?, 4?, and 8?loads), voltage selector, MIDI In and Thru jacks, footswitch included
SPEAKER Randall RS412XLT100BC 4x12 w/Mic Eliminator D.I. outs; $879 street
WEIGHT 33.8 lbs (head)
MAXIMUM MEASURED VOLUME 127 dB
KUDOS Furious distortion. Super tight response. A beast in
the power department.
ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR AMPS WE'VE EVER TESTED, THE V2 ARCHETYPE IS A HYBRID design that couples a solid-state or tube preamp (the latter is activated in Tube Overdrive mode only) to a MOSFET output section (with a tube driver stage) that can pump a blistering 480 watts into 2? or 400 watts into 4?. The V2's three channels are selected via front-panel switches or with the included 5-button footcontroller that plugs into the MIDI In jack on the rear panel. Channel switching and activation of the effects loop and graphic EQ can also be controlled by external MIDI commands. Designed to deliver a broad range of clean to furiously overdriven tones, the V2 does so without the duplication of knobs and switches you find on some multi-channel heads. The Clean and S.S. (solidstate) Overdrive channels share a set of tone controls, and there is a volume boost function when you pull the Treble pot, which only works in S.S. mode. The Tube Overdrive channel has its own EQ controls along with Attack and Bright switches. Completing the knob count are global Master, Density, and Presence controls, as well as a 6-band graphic EQ that can be assigned to any of the channels.

Appearance-wise, the Archetype looks cool with its metal faceplate, blue indicator lights, and thick metal grille. Tech geeks will appreciate the giant power transformer and the large heat sink in the center of the chassis, which has a fan atop it to pull cooling air though the silicon transistors. Recessed handles on the 49 lb head make it easy to carry.

The V2 is all about gain and headroom. The fun begins with the S.S. Overdrive channel, where we find the distortion coming on strong with the Gain up about halfway. This is where you get your heavy crunch tones, which can sound positively sinister when you click on the graphic EQ with the sliders set in "V" formation with a scoop in the middle frequencies and boosted highs and lows. The chunk factor of these tones is ridiculous, especially when you crank the Level and Master controls to one half or higher and start feeling the sheer horsepower that lies under the V2's hood. Drop down to D or C, and the rumble shakes your insides. Switching into Tube Overdrive mode brings the V2's highest gain preamp on line. Its dynamic sensitivity and great blend of tightness and tube compression allows you to dial in scathing lead tones with as much sustain as you want. The Attack switch tailors the response for a looser or tighter feel to best accommodate your picking style, and the Bright switch adds a cutting edge that allows solos to slice through a mix. The V2 Archetype isn't the most flexible amp around-- its clean sounds are sterile, and it's also very noisy when you really crank up the gain and volume--but Randall knows a thing or two about metal amps, and, if that's your sound, you'll definitely want to give this monster a try.

http://albuquerque.craigslist.org/msg/4490486506.html