New Orange Amps

[Jake]

Went to the theater last night to see Led Zep's Celebration Day. It was fantastic. They played fantastic. Everything sounded fantastic. Especially Jimmy's guitar tone. It was mother's goddamned milk.

Now if you're keeping score on Jimmy's live rig for that show, it would look like this:
Marshall Plexi – 2
St. Petersburg – 2
New Orange – 4



Can someone tell me why on earth those amps are so reviled around here? I don't get it. They're good enough for someone who can have any amp of any vintage on the planet, but not good enough for us to chug out an open drop B chord for 15 minutes? And he doesn't play them as per an endorsement either. The logos are half taped over. I'm not expecting everyone to all at once to suddenly start worshipping at the altar of the OR50 or Rockerverb II or whatever...but the sharply focused loathing, I don't understand.

Bonus points for anyone who does not retread the idea that "they're different amps than the old ones." We get that already.

[Hemisaurus]

That's a funny shot. He's using two amps to each single 4x12, and then they are only mic'ing one speaker per cab

Wonder if it's all for show, and the real amp is hidden somewhere, it's a common enough ruse.

[RacerX]

*shrugs*

Who knows? Not me.

Rather than talk out my ass, I'll admit I've never played through a new OR old Orange.

[Jake]

That's a funny shot. He's using two amps to each single 4x12, and then they are only mic'ing one speaker per cab

Wonder if it's all for show, and the real amp is hidden somewhere, it's a common enough ruse.

Fairly certain each halfstack just has one functioning head with a backup. Can't tell from that shot, but only one of each head was lit during the performance.

[clockwork green]

It's also interesting how many low to mid gain guitar legends, Van Halen, Blackmore, Iommi now use really high gain amps. They all still typically run vintage or just slightly higher output pickups.

I still think there's probably a combo or two behind those stacks but maybe not. I think Pagey could get quality tone from most amps and even if he's just using those, who knows what the blend is like. It may be mainly Oranges or maybe he just likes the lows of the Orange.

[Jake]

For all the conspiracy theorists out there, it's pretty well documented that this is the rig that is being played on the movie. Aside from there being two hours of footage of almost every conceivable angle of the stage (including behind amps, drum kits, Robert Plant's colonoscopy cam, etc.) that do not accidentally expose a secret Dumble or Supro, I think you'll find that if the internet is good for one thing, it's dissecting Jimmy Page's equipment and tone.

[RAGER]

I highly doubt those amps are straight off the shelf.

[I,Galactus]

*shrugs*

Who knows? Not me.

Rather than talk out my ass, I'll admit I've never played through a new OR old Orange.

This. 

Also, thanks elder Jake for the heads up as I had no idea this existed and come to find out it's screening in my area.  /weekend plans.

[Jake]

I highly doubt those amps are straight off the shelf.

According to the second part of this video, he did in fact pick out (what was likely a stock) AD30 for use with the Black Crowes shows and has used them to date. If he initially dug the Orange, not sure why he'd go and alter the circuit?

Also, according the the guy who mixed the sound at that O2 show, seems like the AD30 was his primary amp and the others were window dressing. This is from the FOH magazine interview with Big Mick Hughes who mixed the Led Zep reunion about Jimmy's amps.

FOH: What about miking the guitar...Did he have like an army of amps up there?

Big Mick: I used just the 30-watt Orange with an Audio-Technica AE 2500...sounded fantastic. Jimmy did have other guitar setups that he switched in and out as needed, which were also mic'ed with AE 2500's.

FOH: 30-Watt Orange?

Big Mick: 30-Watt Orange. I tell you what, in rehearsal when he fired that up, I was like, 'wow, how many watts is that guitar amp?'-and I went down and looked at it-it was 30 watts! I was like, that defies the laws of physics, but I mean really defies the laws of physics. It was the loudest 30 watts I have ever heard!

[bitter]

It's also interesting how many low to mid gain guitar legends, Van Halen, Blackmore, Iommi now use really high gain amps. They all still typically run vintage or just slightly higher output pickups.

Let's not forget Billy Gibbons. He uses a lot more gain than one might expect.

[RAGER]

maybe when you get old you just get tired of turnin up and diggin in i don't know let's ask Racerx, he's old.

[Instant Dan]

I'm surprised he strapped on a Les Paul again after having back problems for so many years. Then again it's probably custom weight-relieved like they are for Scott Gorham and Billy Gibbons

[Corey Y]

I had an AD30 for a while and got rid of it. Not because it was a bad amp, but just because it was a boilerplate Marshall tone. I could get the same tone out of my Peavy VTM120 or my Carvin X100B, both of which I bought for a fraction of the price. Also, Jimmy Page is no slouch when it comes to tone. I'm sure he was able to find a good, tasteful tone from that amp no problem. Between his playing and the guitars at his disposal, he's got plenty to work with. I read a lot of references to newer Orange amps being "high gain" a lot lately, but they're as high gain as any Marshall style amp. Besides the fact that they all have preamp and master volume knobs, which can be moved. One could certainly dime the volume and use the pregain as a volume control, if so inclined. You could play blues with a Mesa Dual Rectifier if you want, you don't necessarily have to use an amp with all knobs at noon or dimed, the most extreme or the most well known settings. Page has probably experimented with enough amps that he has any idea of how to dial in a sound he wants pretty quickly by ear.

[RacerX]

Page has probably experimented with enough amps that he has any idea of how to dial in a sound he wants pretty quickly by ear.

That, and he uses nos tubes that have been cursed by a witch and painted with the blood of 12-year-old virgins.

[clockwork green]

I wouldn't call having an amp in an iso box or having having a combo mic'd near the tech a conspiracy...mic'ing a stage is far from ideal. Just because he may not do it doesn't mean that tons of people don't. It's also not always a deceptive think like countless metal bands with fake backlines...it's often a tone thing or a mix thing. If a 10-watt tweed is your signature tone then having it near a bass stack and drum kit is going to have a lot of mic bleed. Or if a 100-watter on 10 is your tone but is too much stage volume for your singer then an iso box is the way to go.

[Jake]

I understand the baggage that the term "conspiracy theory" brings to the table. However, technically your theory was that they were conspiring to deceive the audience into thinking he was using a much larger, more "rock'n roll" style backline in lieu of a much more subtle and subdued appearing combo amplifier(s). Right?

[everdrone]

the low midrange and lows of the orange thunderverbs are killer!!!

[RacerX]

I wouldn't call having an amp in an iso box or having having a combo mic'd near the tech a conspiracy...mic'ing a stage is far from ideal. Just because he may not do it doesn't mean that tons of people don't. It's also not always a deceptive think like countless metal bands with fake backlines...it's often a tone thing or a mix thing. If a 10-watt tweed is your signature tone then having it near a bass stack and drum kit is going to have a lot of mic bleed. Or if a 100-watter on 10 is your tone but is too much stage volume for your singer then an iso box is the way to go.

Those Audio-Technica AE2500s have virtually zero bleed if placed against the speaker grill. They were originally marketed as a kick drum mic, but now a lot of in-the-know peeps are using them for close-micing cabs.

[clockwork green]

I understand the baggage that the term "conspiracy theory" brings to the table. However, technically your theory was that they were conspiring to deceive the audience into thinking he was using a much larger, more "rock'n roll" style backline in lieu of a much more subtle and subdued appearing combo amplifier(s). Right?

No really...if they were all dummy amps then that would be deceptive but I was just saying he could have other amps behind the wall, in an iso box or below stage just for isolation purposes. A big box with a cable coming out of it doesn't look so great on stage and some people will use the stage amps just for monitoring purposes. My point was that there are a lot of possibilities and its impossible to know without direct knowledge just how much of what you're hearing is from the Oranges.

[chille01]

I don't know the answer to the original question, but I think the common gripe is build quality and reliability, not the tone of new Oranges.  Made in China with PCB boards or what have you.  That's what I've read on here anyway. That being said, I spent a good couple hours in the local music store last weekend being the guy plugging in a bunch of heads and shooting them out.  I tried a reissue JCM 800, Mesa Single Rec, and about 6 Orange heads including Thunderverb, Rockerverb, and AD30. I left with the Thunderverb 30 on a month rental, so I can try it out with my own own guitars, pedals, cabs, and band. But of the ones I tried, the Oranges were the most appealing to me, tone wise.  The JCM 800 sounded just fine, but I'm not paying 2G's for a reissue. Plenty of vintage ones to be had for half that price. I liked the TH30 because it sounded badass on the clean channel cranked, and is fairly low wattage with means to cut it down to 15 and 7. My plan is to try and run the clean channel full out, without pissing off every sound guy in town. I'm still undecided on the dirty channel and single "tone shape" knob.

Just on my way to jam with it now, which will be my first chance to get it going in the jam room. I'm sure I'll know more tomorrow.

[everdrone]

I don't know the answer to the original question, but I think the common gripe is build quality and reliability, not the tone of new Oranges.  Made in China with PCB boards or what have you.  That's what I've read on here anyway. That being said, I spent a good couple hours in the local music store last weekend being the guy plugging in a bunch of heads and shooting them out.  I tried a reissue JCM 800, Mesa Single Rec, and about 6 Orange heads including Thunderverb, Rockerverb, and AD30. I left with the Thunderverb 30 on a month rental, so I can try it out with my own own guitars, pedals, cabs, and band. But of the ones I tried, the Oranges were the most appealing to me, tone wise.  The JCM 800 sounded just fine, but I'm not paying 2G's for a reissue. Plenty of vintage ones to be had for half that price. I liked the TH30 because it sounded badass on the clean channel cranked, and is fairly low wattage with means to cut it down to 15 and 7. My plan is to try and run the clean channel full out, without pissing off every sound guy in town. I'm still undecided on the dirty channel and single "tone shape" knob.

Just on my way to jam with it now, which will be my first chance to get it going in the jam room. I'm sure I'll know more tomorrow.

headz up orange or50 is $1,299.00 at my fav store that has cheapest prices on orange: http://www.humbuckermusic.com/nsearch.html?query=orange+amp&searchsubmit=GO&vwcatalog=humbucker&.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.humbuckermusic.com%2F

[clockwork green]

Another issue with Orange's new amps is that no matter how good they sound, some people are just looking for that old OR120 sound and quite often, those people just aren't fans of high gain amps. Maybe if they still made a faithful OR120 people could over look high gain channel switchers because their itch was already scratched.

[RAGER]

My 72 Or120 is a gain monster.

[Submarine]

They may also be using the Radial JDX box which gets inserted between the speaker out of the amp to the cabinet.
Its basically a DI box for electric guitar and the first to actually capture the amp tone properly.

[chille01]

It's late and I work in a couple hours, and I'm typing on my phone, so this update will be short... But:

Had 3/4 of the band out tonight. Lead guitarist was sick and couldn't make it, which worked out because it let me evaluate the Orange TH-30 without competing with him.

First off, I thought 30 watts would be enough. I dimed the clean channel and it worked fine for a 3 piece. No problem keeping up with drums or bass. However, if second guitarist had been present I know he would have buried me with his Fender Blues Deville. I didn't like being just loud enough, but having no headroom to be louder if I needed to be.

Think I'll take the TH-30 back and try the TH-50.

Also noted that the difference between running it on my 212 open back with Eminince drivers, versus my Traynor 412 with original Jensens was huge. Just sounded louder and more focused with the 412. I think my ultimate goal is to run my next head through 2x 212, one open one closed. Best of both worlds, with half size rig options for smaller gigs. Once I find a head, I'll probably start a "help me choose some speakers" thread.

Last but not least... It was noisy. As in, in between playing, just standing there... A lot of hiss and pop. Of course, the thing was dimed. I'm interested to see what happens with the 50 watt version, if I don't have to push it right to the top. Still digging the clean channel opened up into power tube saturation over the higher gain dirty channel.