Non-vocalists, how much effort do you put into your lyrics?

[Hemisaurus]

By non-vocalists, I mean people who sing AND play (more than a tambourine)

[chille01]

A fair bit I guess. Usually a couple of drafts. Just knock something out fairly quick on the first one to get the phrasing, cadence, melody fleshed out. Sing it that way for a few jams, then go back and refine the awkward parts.

[mawso]

I think if you're going to be writing lyrics/vocal parts.. you really ought to sing them as you write them.. even if you're not the one who is ultimately going to perform those parts.. even if you don't like how your voice sounds or if you lack power or pitch or if that means singing it an octave down cos you just don't have the range or whatever.

you really don't know when a vocal part is going to sound cool or not til you actually hear it over the riff it's going over

when non-singers write vocal parts and then give them to someone else to perform without giving them any creative input into it, you end up with Yngwie Malmsteen Disease - ie the lyrics and their delivery just end up sounding cheesy and forced and all a bit stupid, because the singer is doing their best but failing with something that just doesn't work naturally as a vocal part

[Ayek]

I put a shit-ton of effort into lyrics. I find it to be the hardest part of songwriting. Even when my words are all out ridiculous, as they often are, I think it works and sounds right with minimal cheese

[liquidsmoke]

I suck at writing, period. I start with simplistic ideas which form a basic outline of what I'm trying to communicate and little by little I mold these turds into something resembling lyrics. Once in awhile there is a bit of something that sounds like something someone wrote who knows how to write but it's mostly very basic. The process takes hours and hours for each song over the course of weeks or months. I'm no poet but I've heard worse. It's given me a whole new appreciation for lyricists. Some singers can make simple and even dumb lyrics sound much better than they actually are though. I'm not one of those singers but I do put serious effort into writing vocal melodies and sorting out where in the song I want the vocal parts to be while trying to avoid excessively simplistic or complex vocal parts considering that I have to also play guitar while I sing.

The whole process start to finish is a huge pain in the ass and is one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life but when I actually get it all sort of down and can perform it without messing up too much and I like it the work seems worthwhile. If people outside the band like it that will be even more awesome.

[justinhedrick]

A fair bit I guess. Usually a couple of drafts. Just knock something out fairly quick on the first one to get the phrasing, cadence, melody fleshed out. Sing it that way for a few jams, then go back and refine the awkward parts.

i do something like this. i jam in the riffs then i start thinking about the way the words are going to fit in there. sometimes i will write them when not playing (not around my guitar) then refine/fit them together when i have a guitar near me.

as for lyrical content, mine are pretty opaque. they mean something very specific to ME, but on the outside it might sound like a song about a bad party, when in reality its about my best friend getting addicted to blow, ruining a band i was in, and having to move across the country. 

[neighbor664]

Why would I be writing lyrics if I was a non-vocalist?
Would I be writing them for the non-guitarist or the non-drummer?

[zachoff]

Totally depends on how much time I have to put into it and if I get an idea.  Some songs I struggle getting words to paper and it takes a month to write lyrics.  Other times I'll get something in my head and it takes a half hour.  It's not really about "effort"... More about whether or not I get a spark that sets something off.

[jibberish]

i guess i qualify as a non-vocalist since i do it all.  i am very intense about my lyrics and when i'm hashing out lyrics, i'm hashing out lyrics.

here's a freebie, xmas carol(o little town of bethlehem)

o little town of clev-eh-land, you're such an ugly sight
chuck-holed roads wind everywhere amid the urban blight
yet in the dark street corner shines the everlasting light
from the river in mid-town, that's burning nice and bright.

heh

edit: one of my biggest hobbies is "evil weird al" treatments of songs like this xmas carol. i have done many already

[liquidsmoke]

Rhyming is near impossible for me. It's hard enough to come up with lyrics that don't sound like a complete joke. If I'm trying to rhyme words the whole thing usually turns ridiculous immediately.

[BrianDamage]

I put next to no effort into the actual lyrics.  I write what I call "Rob Zombie lyrics" where timing, rhythm and pattern are more important than the words making sense. The words themselves are more of a stream of (un)conciousness type of thing but they tend to turn out where they seem to make sense in a cryptic way...

Example :

Bones scatter the ground

Of ghosts you never have found

And as you awoke

You see life vanish in smoke

[Corey Y]

I put a lot of effort into lyrics. It takes me the longest out of every part of the songwriting process. It's been a while since I sang in a band (and even longer since I just sang without playing bass or guitar), but usually I would still be working on them even after we started gigging with a song. I usually don't start writing lyrics until all the music is done, though sometimes it does get rearranged around the vocals a bit, and work out a lot of the vocal patterns before I get actual words. Only a few times in the last 15 years have I ever written lyrics by themselves and then fit them to a song later. All those times I knew they were for a very specific genre that I had an idea of how the cadence would go even before the song was written, but I probably still did a little editing to make the vocals feel right.

That being said, I don't think I've written any lyrics in a few years and only sparsely before then for a few years. I kind of got burnt out, after being the main lyricists/vocalist in most of the bands I was in for years. I'd like to start again, I just kind of go blank now when thinking of something to write about. It's a lot easier for me if I have some kind of theme in mind beforehand that I can use as a writing exercise, as opposed to plumbing the depths of my soul for something to bare.

[chille01]

Why would I be writing lyrics if I was a non-vocalist?
Would I be writing them for the non-guitarist or the non-drummer?

Lot's of examples here.  I think Angus and Malcolm have been writing most of the AC/DC lyrics for years.  Didn't Geezer used to write all of the Sabbath lyrics?

[liquidsmoke]

I put next to no effort into the actual lyrics.  I write what I call "Rob Zombie lyrics" where timing, rhythm and pattern are more important than the words making sense. The words themselves are more of a stream of (un)conciousness type of thing but they tend to turn out where they seem to make sense in a cryptic way...

Example :

Bones scatter the ground

Of ghosts you never have found

And as you awoke

You see life vanish in smoke

This is the type of thing I have not any success with at all and yet people like Robert Hunter and Jimi Hendrix were masters of it.

[VOLVO)))]

I'VE GOT A HIGH TUNED .45,  SEVEN IN THE MAG, ONE IN THE PIPE, HAMMER BACK, OPEN EYES CLOSED SHUT, THE FINAL THING YOU'LL SEE IS MUZZLE SMOKE.


I don't write lyrics for that exact reason ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Ayek]

Didn't Geezer used to write all of the Sabbath lyrics?

Shhhhhh! Ozzy and Sharon don't want people knowing that!

[liquidsmoke]

I'VE GOT A HIGH TUNED .45,  SEVEN IN THE MAG, ONE IN THE PIPE, HAMMER BACK, OPEN EYES CLOSED SHUT, THE FINAL THING YOU'LL SEE IS MUZZLE SMOKE.


I don't write lyrics for that exact reason ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Why not? Those are perfectly good rap metal lyrics 


This is my shortest one-

EARLY DEATH STEALING HIS LIFE
HIS WORK INCOMPLETE
A VESSEL COMES FORWARD
PROVIDING A PASSAGE

BORN AGAIN AWARE YET WITHOUT SPEECH
WITH AN INFANT BRAIN HE WAITS
CONTENT FOR NOW TO SUCKLE AND TO SLEEP
UNTIL THE TIME HIS WORK MAY BEGIN AGAIN

[hashbrowns]

I put a little thought into lyrics but it's more into melody and how to make them fit with my playing than their actual meaning. Usually I just pick a topic and loosely rant about it. I like to write kinda cheesy too cause thats the sort of doom lyrics I dig. Completely over the top pessimism and anger.

[cat shepard]

it works best to be in a psychosis of zealous, urgency that could alter the course of humanity in either real time or lifetime spanning chunks and believe it. However when you come out of it, you just live your way into some new understandings and see how that works for ya.

[fallen]

Why not just sing in tongues a bunch of random stuff that fits the song and then attempt to transcribe it later. Have someone else in the band write down what they think you're saying.

[justinhedrick]

Why not just sing in tongues a bunch of random stuff that fits the song and then attempt to transcribe it later. Have someone else in the band write down what they think you're saying.

that's awesome.

[Metal and Beer]

Why would I be writing lyrics if I was a non-vocalist?
Would I be writing them for the non-guitarist or the non-drummer?

Geezer Butler: "Why should I do it? I'm not the bloody singer!"

[Hemisaurus]

Why not just sing in tongues a bunch of random stuff that fits the song and then attempt to transcribe it later. Have someone else in the band write down what they think you're saying.

that's awesome.

Sounds closest to my methodology, 'cept Gzus don't write.

[neighbor664]

If you are writing words,
disembodied from melody and song,
you are not writing lyrics
but you are probably writing poetry.

[Hemisaurus]

Wasn't that Jim Morrison's thing?

I like a bit of spoken word over some music, but then it's nice to blend it in as well. Lots of bands do that, well a few I listen to.