Rackmount equipment...

VOLVO))) · August 03, 2011, 09:34:50 PM

I've always hated the shit, it's fucking annoying, and seems like a lot of shit to go wrong. I've been using a beta lead as a bass head, and it's great, but I need more power. I'm thinking 1000-2000 watt solid state poweramp with somekind of preamp. I want a big 'ol clean tone I can fuckin' nail with some gain for my nasty... Poweramps are cheapppp, most preamps are pretty cheap, too, honestly.

Any recommendations? Preamps under 150 bones, used, whatever?

bitter · August 03, 2011, 09:56:56 PM

Does it have to be rackmount-able $:-\$ ? If not, maybe one of those tech21 sansamp bass drivers or similar??? Most likely used of course, to keep the cost down.

justinhedrick · August 03, 2011, 10:11:34 PM

the bass player in my band uses one of those sansamp boxes into a power amp. sounds awesome, and he is set up in like 30 seconds, which allows him more time to get wasted . . . uh . . . $:-\$

clockwork green · August 03, 2011, 10:14:07 PM

Carvin amps are solid and dirt cheap used. There are tons of old Rocktron, Digitech and Peavey Rockmaster preamps that are all good to varying degrees depending on what you need.

VOLVO))) · August 03, 2011, 10:43:03 PM

I'm wantin' a big clean, maybe a little breakup if I dig? I have heavy hands, but the beta lead is too dirty/not powerful enough to dump the low end I want. I'm using my JCM800/2203 MKII on guitar, soon to be matched with a JMP 2203 MKII, so the bass player in my band will definitely need some more power, you know? He likes the dirt, but he wants to be able to drop some serious clean volume, and lows to fill out everything. I don't try to compete with him for low end, that's what he's there for. So, We EQ out in front of one another's amps, where my lows end, his lo-mids begin, so it's almost full spectrum, he just needs more power. I want the bass rig for myself, of course, because I'm a stingy fuck, so I'll buy it and use it in my band where I play bass...

Hemisaurus · August 03, 2011, 10:58:27 PM

Anything with 20dB of boost is a preamp.

Anything with an instrument in and a line out, is a preamp.

VOLVO))) · August 03, 2011, 10:59:39 PM

Quote from: Hemisaurus on August 03, 2011, 10:58:27 PM
Anything with 20dB of boost is a preamp.

Anything with an instrument in and a line out, is a preamp.

You are such a grouch.

jibberish · August 04, 2011, 12:54:40 AM

well he beat me to the question, what's the preamp for? i suggest a small mixer in place to drive a PA amp.

VOLVO))) · August 04, 2011, 01:28:16 AM

Quote from: SunnO))) on August 03, 2011, 09:34:50 PM
I've always hated the shit, it's fucking annoying, and seems like a lot of shit to go wrong. I've been using a beta lead as a bass head, and it's great, but I need more power. I'm thinking 1000-2000 watt solid state poweramp with somekind of preamp. I want a big 'ol clean tone I can fuckin' nail with some gain for my nasty... Poweramps are cheapppp, most preamps are pretty cheap, too, honestly.

Any recommendations? Bass Preamps under 150 bones, used, whatever?

I was talking about bass amps? I thought that was obvious?

spookstrickland · August 04, 2011, 03:49:09 AM

Quote from: justinhedrick on August 03, 2011, 10:11:34 PM
the bass player in my band uses one of those sansamp boxes into a power amp. sounds awesome, and he is set up in like 30 seconds, which allows him more time to get wasted . . . uh . . . $:-\$

That's what Kurt Cobain was running on the last tour. Loud as Fuck and totally bullet proof!

Lumpy · August 04, 2011, 03:54:41 AM

The new power amps are lightweight (like 15-18 pounds) so people are selling their old stuff. If you don't mind carrying a big old 45 pound heavy ass amp, prices are pretty good on older stuff. Also, newer stuff that isn't lightweight can be found for reasonable prices.

Don't forget to add in the cost of a preamp and road case. Main reason to go this route is for mondo wattage, and not as much for price.

People like Crest, Crown and QSC a lot, for high end brands. There are some old school brands like AB International that you can find deals on. Carvin's fine, I have one of their amps.

Figure out what kind of wattage you really need, probably match it to your cabs to be safe... or live dangerously, up to you. A lot of the older amps will have banana plugs which are easy to make/convert/whatever. Some of the older amps will have loud fans (i guess that can be true of a newer amp too). If you're using it for recording or have lots of quiet parts, something to consider when shopping.

You don't necessarily need a preamp, you just need 'tone shaping'. I've used a bass pod as a preamp, at practice. I've also used only the power amp with a good fuzz in front of it, at practice. You could use a lot of diff. things, just depends.

I just bought a Crown XTI 2000, it was 350 bucks on Craigs List. It has DSP (digital sound processing, I guess) which I only use the Limiter, and the Y input. Some of the functions can slightly lower your output I guess? (EQ) There's a new XTI 2002 so you can get deals on the 2000.

Specs here:
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/xti.htm

Hemisaurus · August 04, 2011, 09:40:27 AM

Quote from: SunnO))) on August 03, 2011, 10:59:39 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on August 03, 2011, 10:58:27 PM
Anything with 20dB of boost is a preamp.

Anything with an instrument in and a line out, is a preamp.

You are such a grouch.

It's meant to be liberating you goof

You can take the pedal at the end of your chain, add a transistor to it and boom it's your preamp. You can take a tube socket, some pots and a couple of wall warts and create your own all tube preamp, like the guy that wanted a Fender Bassman sound but louder.

You know the classic Orange preamp is only a single tube as well? So here's an Orange preamp for you

You can recreate something with a couple of transistors and pots, think buffer, baxendall, then boost

Or mess with people, build the preamp into your bass, or into your cable (there's FET circuits specifically for this out there) and plug straight into the power amp.

VOLVO))) · August 04, 2011, 01:39:33 PM

Think that OR120 preamp would fit into a single rackspace box? It looks just dumb enough for me to be able to build, with a little bit of help...

justinhedrick · August 04, 2011, 01:44:16 PM

Quote from: SunnO))) on August 04, 2011, 01:39:33 PM
Think that OR120 preamp would fit into a single rackspace box? It looks just dumb enough for me to be able to build, with a little bit of help...

it should. tube mounted horizontally.

LogicalFrank · August 04, 2011, 01:51:52 PM

Not sure how hard they are to find but I have a Sunn SA-20 poweramp. 600 watts into 4-ohms. Using a Behringer clone of that Sansamp Bass Driver, it is a beast for bass. Runs in stereo too if you so desire. Cost maybe $200 and has proven to be pretty tank-like--and I shred pedalboards you think are perfectly good over the course of a single gig. Didn't even have a rack for it for many months and many gigs.

justinhedrick · August 04, 2011, 02:04:21 PM

Quote from: LogicalFrank on August 04, 2011, 01:51:52 PM
Not sure how hard they are to find but I have a Sunn SA-20 poweramp. 600 watts into 4-ohms. Using a Behringer clone of that Sansamp Bass Driver, it is a beast for bass. Runs in stereo too if you so desire. Cost maybe $200 and has proven to be pretty tank-like--and I shred pedalboards you think are perfectly good over the course of a single gig. Didn't even have a rack for it for many months and many gigs.

i've often wondered about the behringer clone of the sansamp. does it sound pretty "real"?

also sunn, get an old ass peavey power amp. indestructable.

Hemisaurus · August 04, 2011, 08:12:29 PM

Quote from: justinhedrick on August 04, 2011, 01:44:16 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on August 04, 2011, 01:39:33 PM
Think that OR120 preamp would fit into a single rackspace box? It looks just dumb enough for me to be able to build, with a little bit of help...

it should. tube mounted horizontally.

The problem is always the power transformer, I could never find one that small. 1U is 1.75" total. Even using something like the Weber WPDLPT so you could put a 12V external supply box, and then step it up internally, it's still not under 1.75" in any dimension. You have 2 choices

Use a 2U box, like that chap
Build an external supply box, that supplies both heater and plate voltages

If you go with option 2 use a nice chunky connector, that doesn't get used for other things, like some funky Belkin or something, you don't want people jamming 300V DC into something that just isn't ready for it, like their guitar.

VOLVO))) · August 04, 2011, 08:22:59 PM

2U doesn't bother me, 4U for a rack, in total is happy medium. Maybe a 5th spot for a power conditioner.

Easy enough to source parts for that bastard, too.

The schem shows me two tubes? Am I being a moron?

Hemisaurus · August 04, 2011, 08:40:34 PM

12AX7 two tube stages in one.

I been thinking about the power supply, and realised, I have seen small 120V > 12V supplies, the little wall warts for cordless phones and stuff, the really skinny ones are 1.5" (just measured one) and some of them do 200mA. If you ever look at Fred Nachbaur's projects, he does a thing with two wall wart transformers, he cracks open the wart and salvages the transformer, you take one 120 > 12 transformer, and that gives you the 12V heater voltage for a 12AX7, you then take another and feed the 12V into it and it steps it back up to 120V giving you an isolated supply, likewise if you use a 120 > 12 then a 120 > 6 you will end up with 240V AC, which can give you about 330V DC when rectified.

So if you use a single 12AX7, the heater current at 12V is 150mA, the plate current is .5mA which stepped up 20 times means another 10mA, so if you can find a 120V - 12V 170mA supply and 120V > 6V 15mA supply and they both fit in a 1U space in one dimension, you've got what you need (unless you add in a giant jewel pilot light that draws way too much

bbottom · August 05, 2011, 12:23:59 AM

Quote from: spookstrickland on August 04, 2011, 03:49:09 AM

That's what Kurt Cobain was running on the last tour. Loud as Fuck and totally bullet proof!

Unlike him......

I never cared for the look of rack-mounted stuff. But I will say that it makes setting up and tearing down a freaking breeze

Danny G · August 05, 2011, 10:33:17 AM

I've never cared for rackmount stuff either, but here I am lugging around a rack with power conditioner, wireless unit and backup amp. Ease and portability, and looks cool covered in the right band stickers.

Jake · August 05, 2011, 10:59:11 AM

Hemisaurus · August 05, 2011, 04:20:13 PM

I think it depends on how you configure it. I dragged a 6U case about, with a power amp, preamp, crossover and FX in it, and yeah you just opened it up, and hooked in the speaker cables and pulled out the power lead, but man it's so fucking bulky and awkward to carry.

Then I had a 2U case, and was carrying around a power amp and a pedal, and that felt real good, was much easier to separate the weight of the power amp out from the bulk of the case.

If I do rack gear again, and I'm not yet at the have a roadie wheel my two 12U roadcases out the truck a la Buzzo, I think I'm going to put the power amp in it's own 2U hardcase, and get a 4U shoulder bag thing for the rest of the stuff, getting the weight easy to manage is important.

What I got.

and add