New era in pedal control

[Submarine]

This seems a bit interesting: digital control of analog fx units.   You only need to watch the first 3 or 4 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M9oJkRqbAJ0

[Jake]

That's pretty smart. Really taps into a pedal's potential. It'll be interesting to see how pedal manufacturers respond.

[jibberish]

ancient era in rack effects.

also, those mxr's have toneprints you can set up sounds.

also, guitar players are too stupid to understand MIDI

[Lumpy]

I don't think you have to understand MIDI, it looks like a programmable board (like Line 6 M13 or whatever) but you brink your own pedals.

It seems like a big challenge to get other pedal manufacturers to go along with the plan, but they must have figured out a way to make it profitable.

I would like something that diddles your knobs continuously, etc. I didn't watch the whole video - the more programmable it is, the better.

[jibberish]

this seems convoluted. pedals are a compromise taken on for performing. they are derived from rack effects.
now someone is trying to kludge the advantages of rack effects back into the huge compromise made for pedals away from rack effects

heh

pedals make a ton more noise than rack effects, even the pharaoh has distinct frequencies it generates itself in the noise floor. rack effects are dead fucking silent.

I should email strymon and ask them to quit fucking around with all the pedal compromising and put that shit in proper rackmount housings and knock the price down.

[Submarine]

I love the idea of being able to put an expression pedal on a phase 90 or a memory man.

[jibberish]

i love the idea of being able to plug 3 expression pedals into a memory lane II.

once again, the standards and conventions for studio gear was ironed out long ago

this truly has to be the biggest kludge idea i have ever seen in music gear

look at the riot it was just getting everyone on the same 9v supply convention(roland's i believe)
this whole notion does make me laugh. totally reinventing the wheel.

you use the already built in midi to control effects on the fly with rack gear. i can even tap tempos into these lexicons, or set it digitally
so i can realtime MIDI control all 3 stereo effects engines in realtime from a daw or a control surface

this is on a $150 rack unit too that has lower distortion/noise floor and hundreds of patches on a stereo effects engine.
why is this possible?  the extra money for a)small handbuilt low quantity b) total compromise in design to get it into a stombox c) backwoods little companies vs entire engineering departments of larger companies = more money for same function.

now, who wants to replace or rebuild all their pedals?

 

[jibberish]

I don't want to slag this idea just to slag it, but most pedals aren't standard at all.  that is one brand of fairly sophisticated pedals with lots of digital in them. those toneprints that I mentioned. so now you have to add a mod. but at least those pedals are higher tech.

I could just see mark figuring out how to replace all the pots in his pedals with digi-pots.
actually, his opinion on this would be some golden information seeing as he IS one of those custom pedal builders that this hi-tech shit isn't really part of his lineup.

the strymon video I linked into the GAS thread had the 4 to-die-for strymon pedals all hooked to a 3rd party midi box doing exactly what that video showed kludged into mxr effects
so they would probably laugh at these barbarians.

now mix in those processors like roland and these others. that sits right in the middle with a ton of presets and footswitches etc

now add total mixer/effect automation from a daw. that also exists

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A while ago, I was pondering just making extensions for the stomp switch from my pedals so I could put them all up on a stand where I could reach all the knobs while playing.
delays almost demand to be up on a table. 1 exp pedal on the regen min if on the floor. you cant work regen without being able to tweak it, and tweak it fast.

[Beta Cloud]

man.

a few years ago i would have gone out and bought this stuff, looks like a useful gadget right?

but i was playing a show last summer, (days of the doomed milwaukeeeeeee!),
and i get my rig all set up, (meager pedal board. a mooer pure boost, shimverb, ana echo, and a tc polytune mini, powered by a volto lithium battery. everything i need self contained on the floor. nothing can go wrong).
so i think i have the ultimate compact, self contained board under my feet. i'm ready for battle!!!

and we're playing our first song and i go to hit a boost on my board for a solo...
*crickets*
shit goes silent. no signal at all. fuck me. like a porn star dribbling the cumshot.
i kick it off, go to the monitor, point my pickups at that shit and get all the boost and feedback i need.
was a shitty cable on the pedal board i discover after the fact.
and i played better solos because i was forced to dig in and get creative musically, sonically, and with greater attention to complementing the song with my playing.

i now have a headstock clip on tuner and NO effects. it's live after all. it's rock and roll after all.

and if i do ever use any effects live again, it will be one battery powered stomp box i've been seduced by, (probably my BAT Pharaoh or LSTR), and duct taped to the shitty, dusty, beer soaked floor of a shitty unforgiving stage.

confessions of a jaded old hack. that is all.

[Beta Cloud]

also, guitar players are too stupid to understand MIDI

^THIS^

as Billy Gibbons once said; "meat on metal on wood".

all you need.

also, didn't mean to sideline ya' Submarine, if it's what you're into, it's fun for you- it's cool!

[eyeprod]

yeah, I can't see this idea going anywhere. Nice in theory, but that looks way too complicated and how does it benefit a manufacturer to accommodate this extra jack? They would have to pay the pedal makers to build it into their pedals. Depending on the pedal circuit, this could be impossible or completely unrealistic to adapt. I could be wrong and just not understand the modern tech well enough, but it seems like you'd have to tap into each pot and switch on a pedal in order to make those functions programmable in any way.

[Submarine]

also, didn't mean to sideline ya' Submarine, if it's what you're into, it's fun for you- it's cool!

No worries man.  Like with anything new, some people will run with it and might do great things and others will find different and creative ways to achieve their vision.

[Jake]

All the overly-opinionated horseshit you guys are spewing about pedals being far less flexible than rack mount stuff is exactly the point. Since people are already super duper dug in with stompboxes, then why not create something that further opens up their usefulness?

Sheesh. Most guitarists are not exactly beacons of new technology adoption. We're still in love with vacuum tube technology for christsakes. But I don't see anyone unpacking the argument that those are a technologically inferior.

[VOLVO)))]

Opinions/assholes

[RAGER]

I'm with Betacloud.  I pretty much just stick with the basics.

[RacerX]

[Lumpy]

I don't think you have to understand MIDI just to use this stuff.  I don't know how a car works, but I'm a good driver.

Lots of good technological ideas don't get adopted - I guess we'll see if there's a demand for this.

[jibberish]

All the overly-opinionated horseshit you guys are spewing about pedals being far less flexible than rack mount stuff is exactly the point. Since people are already super duper dug in with stompboxes, then why not create something that further opens up their usefulness?

Sheesh. Most guitarists are not exactly beacons of new technology adoption. We're still in love with vacuum tube technology for christsakes. But I don't see anyone unpacking the argument that those are a technologically inferior.

yeah, why not create something that further opens up their usefulness.  this is zero use for a person already dug in with pedals. that's the problem.
if it is lame, it is lame.

and if you really want to utilize midi fully, you do have to understand it.  guitar players don't need to know that and generally don't.

technology isn't the problem. nothing sounds like tubes..kind of stuck there.  not sure why you even said that. irrelevant.

[VOLVO)))]

All the overly-opinionated horseshit you guys are spewing about pedals being far less flexible than rack mount stuff is exactly the point. Since people are already super duper dug in with stompboxes, then why not create something that further opens up their usefulness?

Sheesh. Most guitarists are not exactly beacons of new technology adoption. We're still in love with vacuum tube technology for christsakes. But I don't see anyone unpacking the argument that those are a technologically inferior.

yeah, why not create something that further opens up their usefulness.  this is zero use for a person already dug in with pedals. that's the problem.
if it is lame, it is lame.

and if you really want to utilize midi fully, you do have to understand it.  guitar players don't need to know that and generally don't.

technology isn't the problem. nothing sounds like tubes..kind of stuck there.  not sure why you even said that. irrelevant.

Because, as per usual, everyone is trying to over-complicate very, very simple shit, and it's infuriating to people on the outside who think you're being pointlessly complex for similar or sub-par sound in most cases. Rack shit is clunky, and belongs in minimal fashion in live rigs, or in studios exclusively. Perceptible changes in effects are lost so often in massive volume, that nobody knows assholes from elbows in regards to what is going on, tonally, let alone what fucking effect unit you're using.

Short answer? Just fucking play your instrument.

[jibberish]

that's why pedals exist in the first place. a portable stage effect.
my point was more that they are turning these pedals back into rack effects.

look how complex a pedalboard is getting these days. now add a third set of wires and a ton of mods.

it merges pedalboard into a processor board, which is really just a different shaped rack effect with foot pedals

that was my whole tack, that these guys are complicating something that was originally supposed to be wham-bam simple.

but really, after you add automation, what makes the pedalboard different from a processor board?

[RacerX]

but really, after you add automation, what makes the pedalboard different from a processor board?

I don't know. I also don't really give a fuck.

[Lumpy]

but really, after you add automation, what makes the pedalboard different from a processor board?

Because it's on the floor where you can control it with your feet, and view it with your eyes during a performance. And it's not 20 inches wide just so it will fit into a rack case.

I don't understand how MIDI programming makes something "like a rack unit". Only a fraction of rack units use MIDI.

[jibberish]

wait.  every rack effect has midi control or maybe usb now.
a processor board sits on the floor and you control it with your feet. they are all different sizes depending on how many pedals and switches they have. you can chain like 5 effects like those big $400 rolands etc

i'm not sure i'm following you here

[Jake]

Here is an analogy of exactly what is happening:

OP: Hey, they made a thing that helps your scooter go faster.
Jibberish: That is stupid because motorcycles already go fast.
Jake: Yeah, but lots of people already have scooters and like them.
Jibberish: Blah fucking blah blah...but, motorcycles fast!
Jake: Here's a scooter analogy.
Jibberish: I like meth.

(Those last two were inferred.)

[VOLVO)))]

mmmm... meth.