Vinyl single, good or bad idea?

Ombrenuit · January 30, 2014, 09:09:17 AM

Is a vinyl single a tough sell for an unknown/unsigned band?

We were thinking about ordering 100 7" vinyl singles to sell at gigs. A local audio engineer is offering us a deal. It'd be an all analog signal path, mastered the old-fashioned way, and hand-pressed.

They'd be priced at $10 and we'd have to sell them all to break even.

How hard is it to sell vinyl singles at gigs? Or through bandcamp? How do punk bands typically do it?

Bad idea for a first timer?

Jake · January 30, 2014, 12:19:14 PM

If it were me, I'd most definitely pass on that deal. $1000 for 100 7-inches seems really high. $10 is just too much to ask for an unknown/unsigned band.

Pirates Press has this special:

500 Colored Vinyl 7" Package - ONLY $1400
(includes all mastering & plating, CMYK labels & jackets)

http://www.piratespress.com/specials.html

That's $2.80 instead of $10/per.

Ombrenuit · January 30, 2014, 12:50:49 PM

I included the cost of recording into the deal. The cost of just the vinyl is $625. You're probably right though - better to buy in bulk and sell cheap as an unknown.

Lumpy · January 30, 2014, 02:04:21 PM

But that's 400 additional records sitting in a box in your closet, if they don't sell/band breaks up/etc. A small run is usually more expensive.

I think 10 bucks/gotta sell 'em all just to break even is too expensive, but 500 records might be too many pieces. But I don't know about your band (yet).

Jake · January 30, 2014, 02:55:17 PM

Quote from: Ombrenuit on January 30, 2014, 12:50:49 PM
I included the cost of recording into the deal. The cost of just the vinyl is $625. You're probably right though - better to buy in bulk and sell cheap as an unknown.

That makes a little more sense, but $6.25/record is still pretty steep. If you're comfortable asking for $10 for a 7", then go for it. Personally I think that's about $5 too much. You might have to do what most startup bands do and just eat the recording costs.

mortlock · January 30, 2014, 03:44:00 PM

Ombrenuit pm if you want. i run a small record label and have been putting out vinyl for my own band as well as others since 1999. i can offer you some advice. few quick things.
plan on not making much money. i almost always operate at a loss, kind of. i move alot of what i press through trades, that pads my distro box and eventually i sell stuff at shows as well as consignment at my local record store. its a labor of love.
i personally love vinyl and ive grown up with it, so i do it because its important to me. im convinced its the only true way to release music that will stand the test of time. digital sucks. cd/cdrs/downloads, its all great for convience but in the end, only vinyl has staying power. vinyl sales are up big and the vinyl revolution is in full swing.
i sell 12" vinyl for $12 and 7" vinyl for $6. if you are face to face with me at a show, chances are ill hook you up with a deal.
i think the price you were quoted is a bit steep. there are better deals out there. i highly recomend putting out split 7"ers. that way you possibly can split the cost and you get better exposure especially if the band you split with is more popular than your band. its win win for everyone.
http://continuumrecords.bigcartel.com/

AgentofOblivion · January 30, 2014, 03:50:40 PM

I wouldn't do it if I were you. You should create the demand before you create the product or you WILL end up with a box of shit in your closet that no one wants. If you're asking about it here then that means you probably don't have people beating down your door for it. Let's assume 1000 people want your music in their ears, which is probably a gross overestimation if your band is anything like mine. MAYBE 20% of those will be into vinyl. And MAYBE 20% of that 20% will be into 7" singles. That's only 40 people out of your 1000 fans. I collect vinyl and I would never buy a single. I just sat down to jam, now I have to get up again to flip it over? Now I have to get up AGAIN to put something else on? F that. Spend your time/money building buzz about the band and print releases once people already want them.

liquidsmoke · January 30, 2014, 03:57:36 PM

I agree with creating the demand first and at that point you might as well do a 10" ep or 12" full length.

mortlock · January 30, 2014, 04:09:00 PM

although agentofoblivion makes some valid points. i do not agree with the point about the 7". you get alot of bang for your buck with 7" vinyl. especially if they are splits. you can spend not alot of money and check out/take chances on tons of bands without committing to buying a expensive full length album. also since time is limited, most bands put their best foot forward on 7" vinyl. no room for filler. as far as the flipping of records, point taken, but thats more about laziness and maybe relocating your turntable closer to where you sit. not a good reason to not like 7"ers. imo.

JemDooM · January 31, 2014, 12:59:28 PM

since no-one has mentioned it yet I'm gonna suggest tapes, they are super cheap to make and people like em! If you send them out to blogs/sites you might get reviews etc and attract the interest of a small label who will offer to put it out on vinyl...

AgentofOblivion · January 31, 2014, 02:18:26 PM

mortlock and Jem have far more experience than me putting out releases. I speak strictly from the point of view of a lazy consumer and a cheap ass musician.

Ombrenuit · January 31, 2014, 02:55:42 PM

Thanks again for your valuable input guys.

Sounds like a 7" single is a bad plan. I myself have never bought a 7" from an unknown. It doesn't help that Ohio has a small market neither.

Ultimately wanted to try this studio / engineer out before we did a full length with him and thought a single might make the experiment low-cost.

Lumpy · January 31, 2014, 05:27:19 PM

7" single is a great collector's item. It used to be one of the best ways to introduce your band to people, but now it's probably better for bands who already have a following.

mortlock · January 31, 2014, 07:03:49 PM

Quote from: JemDooM on January 31, 2014, 12:59:28 PM
since no-one has mentioned it yet I'm gonna suggest tapes, they are super cheap to make and people like em! If you send them out to blogs/sites you might get reviews etc and attract the interest of a small label who will offer to put it out on vinyl...

so true..tapes are great. my band just got approached to do a cassette. so here it is. HADES MINING CO.//UNEQUALTOYOU split tape out soon on HUMAN BEARD RECORDS..

ive always been a big advocate of self financing some of your own releases. especially early on in the bands existance. you cant expect people to 'sign' your band and spend their money on putting out releases for you, if you arent even willing to invest in yourself..

James1214 · January 31, 2014, 11:44:24 PM

Quote from: Jake on January 30, 2014, 12:19:14 PM
If it were me, I'd most definitely pass on that deal. $1000 for 100 7-inches seems really high. $10 is just too much to ask for an unknown/unsigned band.

Pirates Press has this special:

500 Colored Vinyl 7" Package - ONLY $1400
(includes all mastering & plating, CMYK labels & jackets)

http://www.piratespress.com/specials.html

That's $2.80 instead of $10/per.

Or, you could go Flexi which I think people would buy, if only cuz flexi's are rad, from Pirates Press

you could probably make money on the deal selling them for $5 a pop, depending on how much recording ends up costing

http://www.piratespress.com/cms/flexi-records/flexi-special

1000 flexi's for $1000

mortlock · February 01, 2014, 12:50:10 AM

$5 seems high for a flexi..

James1214 · February 01, 2014, 01:37:07 AM

Does it? I mean that was a shot in the dark. $3 seem fair? I mean if its a buck a piece and I can't imagine recording one song being more than a couple hundred than you could double your money easily.

mortlock · February 01, 2014, 01:47:18 AM

I can barely get $5 for a vinyl 7" most of the time. I think $3 is fair for a flexi..

AgentofOblivion · February 01, 2014, 10:03:18 AM

What is a flexi?

MichaelZodiac · February 01, 2014, 12:09:09 PM

I've been thinking about this topic for a while myself, mainly because we're looking to record some stuff and release it.

Personally, I'm more of fan of release your stuff digitally for free (pay-what-you-want bandcamp thing) and then do a physical release that looks good. If it's your first release, tape is the way to go IMO. It's just so easy, doesn't cost an arm and a leg and you can make it a real nice product (case in point: Jem's band or any other tape that looks good). If a label wants to release that on vinyl, great. As a band you can still chip in then to make it happen but it will cost you less because the overall costs will be split. In essence, I think for most physical releases tapes are great. As a band, you have more control over the overall product due to the cost thing and the amount of creative control. I don't know about you but I like to keep stuff close to the chest.

Andrew Blakk · February 01, 2014, 12:42:37 PM

A lot of great advices above! But if you're willing to loose some money, wether it's a cassette or a 7, just go for it.
In some sence I think it's better to have released something than waiting.

One of my upcoming goals is to release a 7 this year!

A split would be great otherwise one of our own. But perhaps 50-100.
Yes it will probably cost more than it's worth but after releasing two cds that's no one is buying then what the hell!
For our own sake mostly but still, 7s are damn cool!

Anyone up for a split?

liquidsmoke · February 01, 2014, 01:00:59 PM

I want to do pay what you want(or free) on Bandcamp, home done CDRs probably with black and white self photocopied and cut inserts in cheap clear plastic sleeves, and a limited run of home made cassettes if I get a half way decent side by side cassette unit to make them on. $2 or something for the CDRs and tapes at local shows(free for friends) and maybe business card sized slips of paper to hand out with the Bandcamp info.

Ombrenuit · February 01, 2014, 04:12:48 PM

You can get 1000 7"s for $999 hand-pressed out here in Columbus. That doesn't include packaging like the flexi deal though.

Jake · February 01, 2014, 06:57:31 PM

I do not like cassette tapes one bit. Not because they're obsolete technology, brought back by nostalgic hipster types. But because they sound awful.

mortlock · February 01, 2014, 07:04:12 PM

Quote from: Ombrenuit on February 01, 2014, 04:12:48 PM
You can get 1000 7"s for $999 hand-pressed out here in Columbus. That doesn't include packaging like the flexi deal though.

way too many. you can have a reasonable profit margin with a modest pressing of 250 to 300 pressed. if you sell all, youll make money. you only need to sell approx 60 to 70% to break even. im happy if i can get close to breaking even. at the end of the day, you still get the satisfaction of having the record out. more than most bands will ever do.