how important is songwriting in an original band to you, when do you do it?

[everdrone]

You cant copyright a riff or solo or drums, therefore writing lyrics and melody are important. But how important are they to you?  In your band when do you do it?  Collaborating is adding like vocals to riffs.  Cowriting a song is formulating the song together and not just adding and subtracting parts.  Discuss please 

[mortlock]

for me, songwriting is completely meaningless. its noisecore. no pressure to write, remember shit or be any good. perfect situation.

[bbottom]

It depends.

In Mass Driver, the lyrics come second....it's all about the riffs....which is how I've always worked. I'm pretty good with lyrics and melody. So I'm comfortable enough in my abilities to come up with something catchy after all of the music is written.

In the other rock band that I joined it's a more fluid situation. The singer begins to sing stuff while we're working through the song. It's very different for me to do it that way, but I dig it.

[khoomeizhi]

in my band, i write the majority (but definitely not all) of riffs and how transitions happen between them, but we tend to arrange in a group setting. our stuff is usually pretty organic as far as when changes happen, so it's frequently a matter of deciding who will cue changes and how.  lyrics and vocal melodies are not really applicable for us. if any actual words become permanent parts of songs, it's later in the game. we usually tend to go with a non-word-based vocal emoting type vocal. i.e. screaming/shrieking/roaring. sounds (sometimes specific repeated ones) but not necessarily words. we're kinda telling stories, but they're the kind you feel, not understand cognitively.

[Submarine]

In Mass Driver, the lyrics come second....it's all about the riffs....which is how I've always worked.
In the other rock band that I joined it's a more fluid situation. The singer begins to sing stuff while we're working through the song.

Yep, I feel the same way.

[RacerX]

1) drugs

2)

[jibberish]

very important in that context. the songs are the band's identity
i write when lightning strikes

i use whatever at the time it is needed.

i have songs built from chord progressions, riffs, careful assembly note-by-note in a MIDI editor, careful assembly using edited audio, and 1-take wonders.

no specific order or pattern. just go with what serves the situation at the moment

[Danny G]

Different situation in every situation.

Most of the bands I play in are run by an individual, and all are great songwriters. So typically songwriting involves them bringing in a completed song or at least a solid framework and the band may help hash out the arrangement.

In situations where I play bass, any input I can offer is limited as for me bass is more a "passive" creativity (linking together the kick/snare pattern) than "active" creativity like guitar (chord changes and melody lines).

That being said, one project (I'm on bass) was working on a new tune and leader was open to suggestion. So I suggested some modulations for a bridge, as leader tends to stay close to the original root/key. Worked great.

I'd like to be more collaborative as I have plenty of my own music and would rather write with people than be greedy with it, but that still hasn't happened with any project.

Of course, on the flip side all the music for Ocean of Stars is pretty much already written and the creativity for bringing something new in is mainly in orchestrating who (me or sax player) will do which parts. There is often a lot of "you do this and I'll do this, see how that sounds.... Ok, let's switch parts and see how that sounds..."

But the sax player also has lots of room to make cool noises and shit. In the case of OoS I don't necessarily want to be the star of the show so I'm totally fine with sax player doing the cool shit if that's what sounds best for the arrangement.

In the case of vocals, I have written lyrics or sang lead since Southern Gun Culture, so I'm usually of little help there. But I do have a good ear for adding harmonies to vocals and sing backup in most projects, whether it's a part they suggested or a harmony that I added.


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[eyeprod]

it's the most important thing for me. Anyone can make up some riffs or bash something out. It's all about good songs that are fun to play and fun to listen to. What else is there? Striking a superhero pose only gets you so far.

[Danny G]

Songwriting and composition are def an art and shouldn't be blown off.

Even a simple song based on a few easy riffs can be crafted into a masterpiece.

You want people to listen to your shit. And sing the hooks in their head afterwards rather than immediately forgetting what they just listened to when the song is done


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[mortlock]

this got me thinking, I just read a review on the encyclopieda metallum regarding master of puppets. the reviewer slammed the shit out of that album. ripped the riffs, the song writing, the guitar tones, everything. I didn't agree with any of what he was saying.

so what makes for good song writing? for everyone who loves an album, there will be those who hate it.   

[khoomeizhi]

yeah - depending on the basic genre, i think it does or doesn't matter as much. people who see us play sure don't go away humming any hooks, but there's always a few who come up after saying their minds were blown and they loved it and would search us out online. we play such an underground form of music that there's no illusions that

we do pay a lot of attention to vibe and progression, which (i'm thinking) isn't really what you're talking about with 'songwriting'. but maybe?

[liquidsmoke]

With my last 2 bands I wrote pretty much every guitar riff, vocal melody, and lyric and after some drama and an unrelated move away they both turned into non-live studio projects that I am working on by myself so I'm also writing the bass parts too. I think I'm improving on all fronts but who knows. At this point I want almost complete control over these two projects but in the future if I'm doing something new with people I'd rather it be a collaborative thing. I'd also be willing to just play a supporting role if I liked someone's vision enough.

There are too many mediocre and boring bands around these days. There are no rules but to me everything is important no matter how the songs are written. Just make it good.

[Danny G]

"Creating a vibe" is def an important element in songwriting/composition for sure. Even if if the music isn't exactly "songs"


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[spookstrickland]

Writing songs used to be the most important thing in the world.  Now ive kind of said all I have to say at least publicly.  I do have a few dark songs brewing in me but they would be way to obvious too the people close too me and would hurt them a great deal, so for now they smolder and I stick to playing old originals or re-vamping cover songs.

My latest revamp is of Status Quos "Matchstick men", I always thought the chorus was too "poppy" sounding so I changed the chords around and added a modulation.  It sounds Sad as fuck now, cant wait to record it.

[TannisRoot]

Bands I've been in have a rotation of polished and unfinished songs in varying stages of completion. Usually the song writer comes in with a riff and we jam on it. If it's good it gets added to the rotation. If a song isn't going anywhere after a few practices, it comes off rotation. Sometimes it gets reworked and comes back later. It all gets recorded via phone for us to listen to between practices during commutes and stuff if we want. Lyrics come later. If it's a good song it graduates eventually.

[zachoff]

It all just depends.  Songs are written over time.  Usually, we'll have a set of riffs that make up a "song".  Then we come up with a vocal melody.  Once we have that, we'll write words to our parts.  Usually it's just me singing, so I'll write words to the song.  Sometimes Bill sings and he'll come up with his words.  Once the words are written, they usually change the song a bit.  Sometimes while writing words we'll come up with a break or pre-chorus to go along and/or break up the monotony.  Other times we'll just think the song needs "more".  Sometimes we'll dump the song completely if one of us doesn't like it.  Once a song is "done" it could change if someone comes up with another part that would sound good.  Doesn't happen often, but it's happened.  We all write our songs though.  Definitely don't have a single person leading the way.

[spookstrickland]

Here is the demo for Matchstick Men I rearranged.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMsrwcrkUCQ


Ps can some one tell me what code to use from youtube to post....it always says invalid link for me.

[bbottom]

Here is the demo for Matchstick Men I rearranged.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMsrwcrkUCQ


Ps can some one tell me what code to use from youtube to post....it always says invalid link for me.

click the youtube button in your reply. Within that, paste your youtube link. Then delete everything in that link from the = sign back.

For instance your link will look like this once it's pasted in the youtube option

UMsrwcrkUCQ




I hope that make sense.


here's your youtube link by the way

[spookstrickland]

Here is the demo for Matchstick Men I rearranged.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMsrwcrkUCQ


Ps can some one tell me what code to use from youtube to post....it always says invalid link for me.

click the youtube button in your reply. Within that, paste your youtube link. Then delete everything in that link from the = sign back.

For instance your link will look like this once it's pasted in the youtube option

UMsrwcrkUCQ




I hope that make sense.


here's your youtube link by the way

Thanks, that really helps.  I was pasting in the whole address.

[zachoff]

To answer the question, songwriting is the most important thing to an original band, IMO.  I wouldn't want to associate myself with a song I wouldn't be stoked to listen to outside of my band.

[TannisRoot]

so what makes for good song writing? for everyone who loves an album, there will be those who hate it.   

Maybe the guy who slagged Master of Puppets is just a moron? :p

Good song writing grabs your attention and keeps it. Great song writing has you coming back for more.

[Danny G]

Great songs are timeless.


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[Andrew Blakk]

The songwriting is rather important for me, absolutly!

In my band I guess the lyrics and the vocals comes last. And that's mainly because the singer kind of works that way. We hardly know how the songs are gonna sound until they are being recorded lol. But then things are worked on together during the recording session so to speak.

So for my part it's all about the riffs and the arrangement that is the song. The vocals are mearly another texture or instrument. But in the end it's the vocals and the singing that is the song. A bit of a strange phenomena in our working process.  I mean we wouldnt change anything in a song to adjust to the vocals. The vocals has to adjust to the music. To the riff...  Regardless it's quallity.