My redbear recently blew it's output transformer and I took it to be replaced. In the process of replacing the OT the tech told me he "noticed something screwy about the circuit". He told me it was wired according to the factory schematic but it was technically "incorrect": it would only put out about 1/2 the power it should and would distort much too early...so he said he went ahead and "fixed it". Told me now it sounded more like a JCM 800, really opened up the amp and made it more responsive...
Now: yes the amp is a hell of a lot louder, but it doesn't have the thick, saturated sound that I loved before. It doesn't drive as hard and it is ridiculously bright. Before this I used to run treble and presence on 5 and everything else on 10, now I'm dialing treble response back to 2 and still its too much.
Now it's been almost 2 weeks, I've tried changing my pedalboard to recapture my old sound, I've twisted knobs and switched guitars, no luck. Now I have to take it back and ask them to fix what they already "fixed".
Has this ever happened to anyone else: a tech modding your gear without asking you? I found out about it when I picked the amp up. I've always liked these people, but I don't feel I should have to pay to have the amp restored to the original circuit.
Any thoughts?
my thought is, you messed up right when you paid for the service you didn't ask for
fortunately the tech fucked up worse by doing un-authorized modifications
his fuckup trumps yours and I think he should put it the way it was when it came in here, no charge
if he hims and haws, suggest the fact that he alone decided to alter your gear for other than what it was brought in for, and a judge would probably not understand anything but the fact that he did something he was not authorized nor commissioned to do.
they did work you didnt ask them to do...worse, they modified an original circuit without your permission with rsults that are predictably unsatisfactory.
They owe it to you to return the amp to its original state and you owe it to yourself to find a more ethical and responsible tech. That is outrageous. >:(
yea in general, in any maintenance thing they need your approval for any of that kind of shit. Like a mechanic who fixes shit without your approval then charges you.
I didn't pay for the mod, my paperwork just lists parts and labor for the transformer replacement. Maybe he thought he was doing me a favor. I accepted the amp because I had no choice, I had requested a rush on the work and had a gig the night they finished it.
Quote from: jibberish on July 21, 2013, 02:39:05 AM
my thought is, you messed up right when you paid for the service you didn't ask for
fortunately the tech fucked up worse by doing un-authorized modifications
his fuckup trumps yours and I think he should put it the way it was when it came in here, no charge
if he hims and haws, suggest the fact that he alone decided to alter your gear for other than what it was brought in for, and a judge would probably not understand anything but the fact that he did something he was not authorized nor commissioned to do.
Its disturbing that a tech wouldnt ask you before doing that kind of thing.
Dont let them work on your tweed fender.
"fender was doing it wrong so I put in a printed circuit board and SS phase inverter, now it will be louder"
Quote from: beerrhino on July 21, 2013, 04:28:00 PM
I didn't pay for the mod, my paperwork just lists parts and labor for the transformer replacement. Maybe he thought he was doing me a favor. I accepted the amp because I had no choice, I had requested a rush on the work and had a gig the night they finished it.
Quote from: jibberish on July 21, 2013, 02:39:05 AM
my thought is, you messed up right when you paid for the service you didn't ask for
fortunately the tech fucked up worse by doing un-authorized modifications
his fuckup trumps yours and I think he should put it the way it was when it came in here, no charge
if he hims and haws, suggest the fact that he alone decided to alter your gear for other than what it was brought in for, and a judge would probably not understand anything but the fact that he did something he was not authorized nor commissioned to do.
I guess we could change that to a broader statement "you accepted service you didn't authorize"
you did have a choice. what if he wasn't done and it made no noise. you still had a gig. you would have found an amp.
definitely not arguing or nitpicking, just the idea of accepting it regardless of external circumstances when it wasn't right and you knew it. that's really all I meant.
he accepted the work because he trusted the dude, because he had a gig, and because it was already done. still doesnt make it right , nor does it mean he has to live with it.
I swear, Jibbz, sometimes, I think you post just to be the contrary even if you are wrong. 99% of guitar players care what their tone sounds like, and he had an amp that was -his- sound, and they changed it without his permission. Nothing about that is okay, and nothing about that is his fault. Stop making the victim seem like an asshole for wanting his amp back.
Holy fuck you make my blood boil, sometimes.
Have you considered burning down his house, immolating his family and all of his possessions? You'd most likely need to send me the amp to help hide the evidence.
I've noticed quite a few techs will do unauthorized mods. I have been on the receiving end of a couple. Luckily, they were for the better.
Take it back to him and demand he undo the mod. Threaten to report him to the BBB if not.
Don't be a dick about it, just take it back, explain that you liked how it sounded before, that the mod he made isn't to your liking and you would like him to change it back to the specs it was before. If he gives you shit about it, then you start being a bit of a dick and hold your position. What's the saying, you catch more flies with honey?
^^^ Yes, do that. Theeeeeeennnn murder his entire family with fire.
Quote from: SunnO))) on July 22, 2013, 10:38:09 AM
I swear, Jibbz, sometimes, I think you post just to be the contrary even if you are wrong. 99% of guitar players care what their tone sounds like, and he had an amp that was -his- sound, and they changed it without his permission. Nothing about that is okay, and nothing about that is his fault. Stop making the victim seem like an asshole for wanting his amp back.
Holy fuck you make my blood boil, sometimes.
holy fuck you totally give up the ability to read and comprehend sometimes.
wtf is wrong with you today?
let's review
a) he SHOULD NOT have accepted the modded amp which changed his desired tone in the first place. what is wrong with that?
b)he stated that he was in a hurry regarding me assuming he paid for the service. my bad assumption, the dude threw it in as a freebie
c) I corrected myself to clearly say, generally accepting the changed unit. what is wrong with that?
d) he doesn't like the mod. he would not have accepted that if not for that gig. my example was WHAT IF the amp wasn't playing? would the gig still go on? meaning: he should still have called bullshit right there and made the guy change it back, but he sort of couldn't without causing the hassle of finding an amp, which I would have made the dude loan me one since he fucked mine up.
e) seriously relax, and re read, all will be ok. i'm on his side, even inferring that he could easily take th edude to court and win the suit to get his amp restored to original, he is that in the right.
edit: whoah wait a sec, I see what is wrong with you. you mindlessly spawned off of chovie's post. I am almost impressed, but not quite.
chovie also is saying what I said. he absolutely does not have to live with it. i'm saying he also should have told the guy right there to change it back.
OR as soon as he used and heard it, if he didn't check it out before he left the shop.
edit: evidently he was in too much of a hurry to fire it up in the shop. so then it goes to that next step as soon as he did listen.
I still say,he fucked up not checking it out before leaving especially when he had a gig and the dude says he changed his amp. you wouldn't be curious right before an important event? and the only fuck up was he fucked his tone for the evening taking the mod sight-unheard.
don't confuse fuckups here. the tech really fucked up in an out of line way. op then fucked his tone for the show by trusting that guy and not his own ears because he was in a hurry and whatever reasons...
That in no way makes anything his fault, except putting himself in the position when he started this thread: im at home with my modded amp that needs to go back and restored now because I didn't like how it sounded for the show..
is any of this making sense? the baby fuckup was releasing absolute control of your destiny, and you paid for it via a bad tone surprise right?
I'm mad too. >:(
He may just be a nice guy and thought he was doing you a favor. Take it back, ask nicely. If he fixes it back no problems then you have a good guy that you can form a long term working relationship with. If he gives you shit, tell him that you are going to get it fixed and send him the bill.
A logical response to this post and issue would be to work on a one page PDF of guitar/amp tech rules we could all print out, one for amp techs, one for bass techs and one for guitar techs. In my town I really need the guitar tech one. Something like this:
HI GUITAR TECH
Thanks for fixing up my guitar, I appreciate your efforts but can you help me out by following these rules?
1. Do not change the hight of my pickups.
2. Do not change my bridge from locked against the body to floating.
3. Do not change my strings to a lighter gauge.
4. Do not change the intonation of this guitar to E standard.
5. Please do intonate this guitar to C standard. (or A/B/C#/D pick one)
HI AMP TECH
Thanks for fixing up my amp, I appreciate your efforts but can you help me out by following these rules?
1. Return any replaced or removed parts and tubes to me.
2. Do not fix anything without getting confirmation from me first.
3. Do not change or modify the amp circuit in any way.
4. Do not put a sticker from your company on the chassis of my amp.
5. NEVER drill any holes in the amp chassis or cabinet.
look you guys..the thing about cya at all times is actually a small taste of things that can happen in real life.
this was minor. ya, supposedly this guy was trustworthy.
but see, he wasn't. he dropped the ball. but you paid.
kind of the philosophy of take the car part with you when getting a new one because they will fuck up or the part wont match..all kinds of burps in the system that will burn you if you don't cya
and I think this is beat to death on my part. I just am not that trusting, having been burned way too much myself. people suck. be ready for it at all times.
Quote from: fallen on July 22, 2013, 06:20:26 PM
A logical response to this post and issue would be to work on a one page PDF of guitar/amp tech rules we could all print out, one for amp techs, one for bass techs and one for guitar techs. In my town I really need the guitar tech one. Something like this:
HI GUITAR TECH
Thanks for fixing up my guitar, I appreciate your efforts but can you help me out by following these rules?
1. Do not change the hight of my pickups.
2. Do not change my bridge from locked against the body to floating.
3. Do not change my strings to a lighter gauge.
4. Do not change the intonation of this guitar to E standard.
5. Please do intonate this guitar to C standard. (or A/B/C#/D pick one)
HI AMP TECH
Thanks for fixing up my amp, I appreciate your efforts but can you help me out by following these rules?
1. Return any replaced or removed parts and tubes to me.
2. Do not fix anything without getting confirmation from me first.
3. Do not change or modify the amp circuit in any way.
4. Do not put a sticker from your company on the chassis of my amp.
5. NEVER drill any holes in the amp chassis or cabinet.
you bet this is exactly what I will do seeing this adventure go down like it did. exscellent idea.
In fact I was thinking of the instructions to sunno if I sent my Ibanez for refretting. it has action better than carbon fly. I would have said don't touch the truss rod, don't change any heights of anything regarding whammy bridge and PuPs, please label and replace the spring s in the original position(selection of tired and new springs. keep e standard so nut and all is ok, stay with the 009 super slinkies. just imagine covering as many bases as possible so that thing comes back with that amazing action intact
Jibbz, you are treading on thin ice. Step away from the fucking keyboard, or fuck off to Gen disc with you bullshit posturing. Fuck your know it all attitude, and I am not kidding in the slightest. I am so fucking sick of your shit, constantly berating people for having a different opinion or process of action. Jesus fucking christ, dude. You think your wisdom gives you right to come in and swing dick? I defend you constantly from people calling you out, vouching for you, and all that shit. You are playing tech devil advocate, I don't give a fuck what you think, as you have already proven your inability to comprehend simple issues, and make them non-issues. Fuck.
EDIT: If you send me a guitar to refret, I have to touch the truss rod, in order to get a straight fucking fretboard to work with. You want a fucked up fret job? Sure, I'll follow your instructions, and when you send it back bitching? I'll show you your instructions. Apples/oranges. Specifically changing a circuit to sound COMPLETELY DIFFERENT is nothing like adjusting a truss rod to straighten a fretboard.
You think your Ibanez hot action now? Let me at it. You won't even have to touch the fucking frets. You know why? I'm good at what I do, and I know how to do my job, and I don't let some cocksucker tell me how to do something I'm being paid to do, because he/she can't. Jive?
EDIT EDIT: Furthermore, I didn't "spawn" off any one's post, I had the same reaction. That's called a consensus. There was a consensus between several people, and you were not part of that consensus. You were the odd man out, and decided to tell somebody how to handle a problem, or how he ~should~ have handled the problem
dude, you need to take your drama into gen.
you are the only one acting all hot and out of control in the jam room. I am genuinely trying to communicate ideas.
maybe not so well, but I am not attacking here, I am trying to help by relating general life experience to this example.
Furthermore, who the fuck do you think you are threatening me? over me stating my thoughts and ideas?
you are out of line judging this.
grow up.
here is the big concept: if you want to hedge to win, you cover your bases. if you blame everyone else for slacking on shit under your control you ARE the victim. man up and take responsibility for your path or you will only have someone else's doc martin print on your back.
that is truth that I live by.
I said I was done with the topic. now you are also. go cool off somewhere.
I thought I was full of shit...
This is the way I see it.
Dude got his amp back trusting that it was repaired. maybe even better than it was before. He's human. If he gets home and the amp sounds like the fucking holy grail he's been searching for he's gonna consider himself lucky he got the mod for free and we wouldn't be having this debate. But no he get's the amp back and not only does it not sound as good as it did but it's admittedly been modded. he had to pay the guy to get his amp back. Would any of you automatically say no, you need to put it back without actually finding out if it turned into your holy grail amp. I didn't think so cuz we're human. Luckily the rare event I need one of my amps worked on my guy knows the score with me. NOTHING without my authorization.
Quote from: RAGER on July 22, 2013, 08:09:31 PM
This is the way I see it.
Dude got his amp back trusting that it was repaired. maybe even better than it was before. He's human. If he gets home and the amp sounds like the fucking holy grail he's been searching for he's gonna consider himself lucky he got the mod for free and we wouldn't be having this debate. But no he get's the amp back and not only does it not sound as good as it did but it's admittedly been modded. he had to pay the guy to get his amp back. Would any of you automatically say no, you need to put it back without actually finding out if it turned into your holy grail amp. I didn't think so cuz we're human. Luckily the rare event I need one of my amps worked on my guy knows the score with me. NOTHING without my authorization.
I lied. this is perfect rager.
see, yes only human, but notice the difference between you trusting your guy and beer trusting his guy. you layed down the law. NO MODS. you hedged to win
Beer, tell me honestly, the next time you take an amp in for service ARE there any additional bases you may opt to cover before you leave it there? like NO MODS heh? sure only human. made a bad assumption, got burned, picks himself up, is wiser for next time.
and beer, if you are upset about what I have been typing to try and explain, I apologize. it has been tough to explain thoroughly what that simple first post meant. just trying to get the "once burned, twice learned" thing going and then extend it to many aspects of everyday survival
sunno, go play with a file or something equally as complex because evidently this is way over your head. seems like if you cant see it you cant understand it. goddamn you are such a fucking child. hey look shocker posts and you me too. like a sycophant. I hate sycophants and pile on toadies, they have low character. our little precious.
THIS IS THE JAM ROOM YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MODERATING
is this too grown up of a job for you?
Hahahaha. Mad? I actually bring something to the table other than false wisdom and being a crotchety dickhead.
Produce something other than bullshit, and Ill start giving you some respect, until then, stop trolling and piss off.
Aren't you supposed to be an adult? Arguing with a 24 year old "kid" on the internet? Real complex you are, my friend. Classy.
Age =/= respect
As far as sycophantism goes, lol.
I had brought my gear to this guy many times in the past 8 or so years and he had always done a top notch job. When he told me what he did I trusted his opinion. Maybe I was a fool but he had never done wrong by me before.
I have called the shop and they are going to undo the change without charge since it is not something I authorized.
Quote from: beerrhino on August 07, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
I had brought my gear to this guy many times in the past 8 or so years and he had always done a top notch job. When he told me what he did I trusted his opinion. Maybe I was a fool but he had never done wrong by me before.
I have called the shop and they are going to undo the change without charge since it is not something I authorized.
Good.
And if they had already earned your trust, don't blame yourself. Whatever reason/excuse he may give, bottom line is he should have asked before modding the amp. Period.
Quote from: beerrhino on July 20, 2013, 11:43:18 PM
Has this ever happened to anyone else: a tech modding your gear without asking you?
Yeah. My Trainwreck clone blew its OT, so I took into the tech to get it replaced. He modded the speaker jacks so that the amp won't work unless a speaker cable is in one of the amp's two speaker outs. It's meant to be a precautionary thing so that you don't accidently run the amp without a load. But I was never gonna do that anyway, and the whole mod has just turned out to be a pain in the arse where every time you set up, you have to remember which speaker out is the one you need to be plugged into, and half the time you get it wrong.
Anyway, this tech who did the unauthorised mod was/maybe still is regarded as one of the best techs for audio gear in Melbourne, so I was way too intimidated by his wizardly gravitas at the time to object to what he'd done when he detailed it to me. But I stopped going back there after that one.
For years later that amp never sounded as good after the new OT was in.. until years later I found out from the next tech that he'd wired in my OT back-to-front or some shit. When he fixed that, i had the tone back.
beer, I sure didn't mean for this thread to blow up on my account.
my thought was a pure failure analysis assuming the goal was a perfect show. Your situation was already done and I am glad your guy got you square.
Now the next time, maybe every one of us reading this thread will have certain preparatory info for the tech before he starts work. ..as some people have already explained that they do.