Anybody have experience with both? I was gonna go pick up a used TT combo but that OR15 looks pretty sweet. I've played through some tiny terrors and I really dig em, just wondering if the OR15 warrants the extra hundred or so bucks. Opinions?
Sorry, I can't help you besides to usher in the "new" Orange shitstorm in t-minus 5... 4... 3... 2...
... something something CIRCUIT BOARDS!!!... something something BUILD QUALITY!!!... something something QUALITY CONTROL!!!
ok, i'll start:
the orange rockerverb 50 preamp looks like a real riot to clone.
there. next.
I know the new oranges get a lot of hate around here, but I think the tiny terror sounds pretty fuckin good. I don't wanna debate new vs. vintage as my minds already made up on the matter. I guess I'll just track down an OR15 and do a little testing. Unfortunately, that means I'm most likely gonna have to go to Guitar Center and try and here myself over the blues lawyers and juggalos playin Pantera riffs through a scooped out line 6. Sigh.
Why not get a hovercraft dwarvenaut for around the same price?
I'm actually really interested in the Hovercraft stuff. I'm just not good at pulling the trigger on stuff unless I can check it out first. I've never seen one of those amps in person so I'm not sure what to think about em. I should seriously consider them though.
srsly you people are way too picky NOT to audition this stuff first. so ya, your ears are the final say, everything else is superfluous.
Fuck! Well said.
make sure to turn it up LOUD
Orange needs to be loud to sound good, they are very dynamic. I would go with a nice new amp over one that may need a major tuneup.
I love my orange thunderverb 50, and it has a built in attenuator, so it sounds CRANKED all the time! cant say that for any other amp except Orange!
no probs with the build quality that I know of for the weekend warrior musician
Quote from: jibberish on April 12, 2013, 06:41:15 PM
srsly you people are way too picky NOT to audition this stuff first. so ya, your ears are the final say, everything else is superfluous.
yes! most of the tone is your fingers. amps are just tools, each tool for a different job. a carpenter does not attribute a masterpiece to his tools!
Blackheart or Valve Jr for low wattagr applications. Not scary to take out of the house, sounds just as good, and surprises everyone.
Quote from: everdrone on April 12, 2013, 10:32:25 PM
make sure to turn it up LOUD
Orange needs to be loud to sound good, they are very dynamic. I would go with a nice new amp over one that may need a major tuneup.
I love my orange thunderverb 50, and it has a built in attenuator, so it sounds CRANKED all the time! cant say that for any other amp except Orange!
no probs with the build quality that I know of for the weekend warrior musician
This was true 40 years ago but there's nothing good in cranking high preamp gain amps unless you're some damaged art-rock/noise sound.
Between the two I'd probably take the OR15. Just a bit more flexible in terms of tone. That said last summer I tried the Dual Terror, TH30, Tiny Terror and OR15. Ended up buying a Peavey.
Also, that Thunderverb 50 doesn't have an attenuator, it is a cleverly labeled post-phase master volume...
Quote from: SunnO))) on April 13, 2013, 10:22:03 AM
Also, that Thunderverb 50 doesn't have an attenuator, it is a cleverly labeled post-phase master volume...
wired backwards. Deception!!!
Well, a PPIMV does "attenuate" volume, so technically it is an attenuator. However, it does not attenuate at speaker level, which is what we're used to seeing when that phrase is used.
And I think clockwork is assuming that since it has high gain capabilities, one will always crank the gain. But luckily, Orange had enough foresight to put a round rotary dial knob type thingee that can control the preamp gain level from 0-10. So if you think it's not possible to get a humongous, rich power tube distortion from the Thunderverb 50 (which has the same massive transformers as the TV 200, btw), then you clearly have not tinkered with one.
Also, aren't most of you people slamming your amps with gobs of gain from various du jour fuzz pedals? Sounds good with the amp wide open, yah? Same exact principle as everdrone mentioned, but without the little boxes on the floor.
that definition of an attenuator is too broad, if that was the definition then any volume control would be an attenuator but in the context of an amp, that phrase means a power OT volume reduction. Does not mean that the PPIMV in the Orange does not sound good (PPIMVs can sound good or bad depending upon the design) just that its deceptive, and misleading.
I have heard the TV200, Tom in Sea of Bones uses it for 1 half of his rig. Its not bad but he did tank the OT quickly in it and had Merc replace it
thanks for the Orange props bruthas :)
I readily admit that I am not an amp tech or mechanically inclined, so thanks for the info ;D
that ORANGE THUNDERVERB sounds MONSTEROUS in sea of bones, cheers
http://seaofbones.bandcamp.com/
Quote from: Jake on April 13, 2013, 11:29:50 AM
Also, aren't most of you people slamming your amps with gobs of gain from various du jour fuzz pedals? Sounds good with the amp wide open, yah? Same exact principle as everdrone mentioned, but without the little boxes on the floor.
Not the 800 :D I just run it hard, and with the volume on a Caitlinbread SCOD cranked, gain at 9oclock...
The two channel Dual Rec that lives with me permanently gets the same treatment on the "vintage" channel (no shit, the Dual rec "clean" channel is fat, and shimmery and gorgeous, it just falls on it's nuts when metalcore kids play them and scoop the mids.)
out fo those 2 OR15 as it has a (to me) a better eq, I don't really like single band EQ's, they work really good in ways but in others they can limit you.. Really depends on the cab you use I find.
Quote from: Jake on April 13, 2013, 11:29:50 AM
Well, a PPIMV does "attenuate" volume, so technically it is an attenuator. However, it does not attenuate at speaker level, which is what we're used to seeing when that phrase is used.
And I think clockwork is assuming that since it has high gain capabilities, one will always crank the gain. But luckily, Orange had enough foresight to put a round rotary dial knob type thingee that can control the preamp gain level from 0-10. So if you think it's not possible to get a humongous, rich power tube distortion from the Thunderverb 50 (which has the same massive transformers as the TV 200, btw), then you clearly have not tinkered with one.
Also, aren't most of you people slamming your amps with gobs of gain from various du jour fuzz pedals? Sounds good with the amp wide open, yah? Same exact principle as everdrone mentioned, but without the little boxes on the floor.
This is absurd. I get it. You like your modern Orange. Maybe you're just better than me and everyone else I've heard use one live and have gotten better tone out it. Saying that a high gain amp with the gain turned down is the same as a low gain amp is like saying a Ferrari stuck in rush hour traffic is the same driving experience as driving a Honda Civic during the same traffic. They're not at all the same. I've yet to play a high gain amp that really sounds right with the power amp cranked. They're just built to be high headroom amps and those tubes are meant to run clean. That's vastly different from the old Orange/Matamp design that just bloomed and roared when it got turned up. Besides, the flavor of gain is radically different just like the gain in a Muff is vastly different in all of the important musical and qualitive features of tone from a Metal Zone. Speaking of pedals. The only pedals I run in front of my amps are either low gain or I'll crank their volume and back off of their gain so I can get some of that texture of a clipping fuzz before it turns to mush but even still...that's radically different than turning up the gain on a high gain head that has power tubes running clean. Plus for me personally...dirt pedals are usually a bit of a compromise so I can have a nice clean tone live when I back off my guitars volume. When I record I usually went direct and when with my amp cranked even more for the rhythm tones and for the clean stuff I did a different track of cleaner settings and even cleaner amps.
When someone is asking about a specific amp you're going to get people's opinions and experiences. You must think some of us have a personal vendetta against the new Orange lines. I personally find it annoying and bad for business that they don't have a single amp that is faithful to the old amps (Fender, Marshall, Vox and countless boutique companies seem to be doing well with vintage designs) but it's just a tool for working musicians. I didn't build them and I don't know care about anyone involved so I really don't have a dog in the fight. If you like your amp then great...more power to you for getting something out of it where I was unable. I you want to defend something then defend yourself...let Orange and Jimmy Page's new live rig defend themselves.
Quote from: clockwork green on April 13, 2013, 10:16:09 PM
I really don't have a dog in the fight.
Then why you fightin', bro? ???
@ OP, try before you buy. Maybe you'll like it. Maybe you won't. No butthurt required.
Jesus, I'm not trying to start a war here. I was specifically asking about low wattage Orange comparisons. It's for my living room, something I can play through in front of my 19 month old daughter and not blow her eardrums out (that'll come later). I personally dig the tiny terror line, just wanted to know how the OR 15 compares to that. Don't need to argue about new vs old, pre amp vs power amp, headroom, blah, blah. Come on now, most of us here are professionals that know what we're talkin about. We're dudes that have been doin this for awhile and we all have our opinions based on experience. It's not amateur night at the Apollo, no one needs to get tap danced off stage for diggin a newer Orange.
I have a 5w Valve Jr. and a 20w Hovercraft but the best, QUIET, living room amp is the Yamaha THR10. Put it on the coffee table in front of the sofa and it sounds great at those volumes. Hates pedals though. Valve Jr. loves pedals but has to be loud to sound good. Hovercraft can get really low volumes and still sound good but it's bigger than a Tiny Terror.
I liked the Tiny Terror when I tried it but I'd probably buy the OR15 for the headshell, or I'd go the other way and would get a Micro Terror which has a similar pre but with SS power which shouldn't matter at low volumes.
The Micro is LOUD. FUCKING LOUD. It is ridiculous, It is literally the size of my wallet. for 150? I'd have one if I had 150...
Quote from: mulekicker on April 13, 2013, 11:45:47 PM
Jesus, I'm not trying to start a war here. I was specifically asking about low wattage Orange comparisons. It's for my living room, something I can play through in front of my 19 month old daughter and not blow her eardrums out (that'll come later). I personally dig the tiny terror line, just wanted to know how the OR 15 compares to that. Don't need to argue about new vs old, pre amp vs power amp, headroom, blah, blah. Come on now, most of us here are professionals that know what we're talkin about. We're dudes that have been doin this for awhile and we all have our opinions based on experience. It's not amateur night at the Apollo, no one needs to get tap danced off stage for diggin a newer Orange.
lol!
I dig the band DOWN and they proudly use ORANGE thunderverb 50s. you gotta crank that amp to make it HUGE :) ALSO, it takes fuzz pedals great too! very versatile. here is my fav fuzz pedal video of the Orange TV50:
I have an epiphone valve junior combo and I can tell you that it will certainly blow your 19 month old's ears out! way too loud, well over 90 decibels and way too loud for a 2 story apartment, and probably most smaller residential neighborhood jamming if the next door neighbor is sleeping (I know about htat one when I was growing up). 90dbA is too much for 4 hours of use for adults and will cause permanent damage, a lot worse for kids, you may wanna get them hearing protection earmuffs.
if your 19 month old will be in the room, dont get a tube amp if you are cranking it, even if it is a 1/4 watt blackheart killer ant
Yeah, I used to have a valve Jr. It needed to be cranked up to sound decent. Was good with a fuzz in front. My wife is a deaf ed teacher so the baby's ears will be safe. That's one of the reasons I like the tiny terror, it sounds good to me at lower volumes, if that's what I'm goin for, without any pedals on the floor. I'm gonna pick up one of those micro terrors at some point just cause they're so fuckin cute.
heh. jake the swami.
ok, maybe I can add 2 helpful cents.
I have a fender greta. 12ax7/au7 with a little 4" speaker. it can sound nasty when it is barely audible if you turn the tone down and run a hotter PuP like from a les paul. you can jam out at about the same volume as your unplugged guitar plays if you want
BTW, when Madonna plays guitar in any of her shows(I mention her because she is a pro's pro, whether you like her act or not) she uses orange amps.
ALSO, if you want to attenuate to 1/4 power, parallel a resistor the same as the speaker impedance acoss the speaker, then add 1/2 that value in series(like a series parallel 4 speaker hookup)
Down only recently became endorsed (?) / starting using orange amps. There's a very good chance what you hear on all recordings in not orange at all.
With that being said, I have an old (late 70s or120) and a new (mid 00s AD140) and like the tones from both
ya, most bands dont ONLY use the amp they play all their tours with on their records. I dug the tone they get live. Same with Mastodon - saw them live using Thunderverb 50s, saw Down live with Thunderverb 50s. I would like to see Rival Sons - they use or used Thunderverb 50s live too!
DOWN TV50
MASTONDON TV50
RIVAL SONS - ORANGE
Quote from: clockwork green on April 13, 2013, 10:16:09 PM
Saying that a high gain amp with the gain turned down is the same as a low gain amp is like saying a Ferrari stuck in rush hour traffic is the same driving experience as driving a Honda Civic during the same traffic. They're not at all the same.
This is not even a remotely accurate analogy. Nope. I don't even have dignify by explaining why.
I'll admit that I started this off being a smartass (which really only is/was a reaction to hearing the same rehashed internet gripes, ad infinitum, and prempting them). But I was especially patronizing to you personally about the gain knob, and I should apologize to you.
But I refuse to follow the mantra that everything was better in the past. And if your powerful-yet-low-gain tube amp – a nod to the past, undeniably – works for your purposes, I couldn't be more happy for you. Just know that there's
no question that an amp (that people are all too ready to dismiss as a weak-kneed modern day disgrace to the Orange name) absolutely
ABSOLUTELY can do that very same thing. And as a bonus, it's got a lot more on tap for those who choose to run Guitar --> Cable --> Amplifier.
PS - mother's milk:
OP... Mr. Kickerofmules... look at the Yamaha THR10. I got one when the ol' lady worked nights for a bit. Killer little headphone type amp, but it's much more than that. It's a great little recording amp with tons of useful effects and a very fun and capable strummin' on the couch amp.
I just don't think they sound very good, modern metal tones kind of sound like a clear bag of smashed assholes looks. I don't care if it's Orange, or Diezel or Fortin, or Soldano, or VHT/Freyette, Boogie, Peavey, whatever, if it has shitty tone it is shitty. Tone is subjective opinions are like assholes, etc. That's where my hate for these things come from. I haven't clicked with any of these new Oranges, they're confused. They wanna be an Orange, they wanna be metal madness, but to be an Orange they gotta be what Orange was, to be metal madness... They are too mushy. I tried everything with that RV100 that was giving me all that shit and could not get usable death/black/grind blah blah blah tones.
Diff players, diff amps, all sound kinda meh to me.
Yeah Jake, I checked those out awhile ago and they seem pretty cool. My whole point for this thread though is that I found a tiny terror combo for cheap and I'm pretty set on buying it as I've wanted one for awhile. I just wanted opinions on that OR15. I'm gonna buy the TT. Down the road I'll pick up some other little amps I'm sure, as they suit my need for where I'm at right now. Roaring, vintage non master volume amps, while beloved, are not what I'm in the market for presently. So, end of thread, mind made up. ;)
I was wanting a tiny terror combo for awhile to replace my $100 epiphone valve junior combo
be sure to check out http://www.humbuckermusic.com/ for the best prices on new gear, as a lot of times I see used gear selling for more than what http://www.humbuckermusic.com/ charges!
also, they sell 10" tt combos that are a lot cheaper
I don't hold vintage designs as some special grail of tone. In fact I've said multiple times that there is better gear available now at all price points than there has ever been and in an absurd amount of variety. I just don't hear the same thing or even close enough to satisfy me in the new Orange stuff. I want nothing more than for Orange to make great amps again...I'm so willing to over pay for something of quality with them that it's almost embarrassing. Maybe it's why I'm also extra frustrated with them. I'd take a second rate repro of a classic OR just like Marshall's current Plexi's and they just won't do it.
Also, this is the internet and emotional maturity is strictly forbidden. One of us needs to insult the other's race, sexuality, religion or socio-economic status and then throw in some chest beating and hyperbole.
Jake likes fag guitars, and his band wears big pants, and has a lesbian bass player.
REBREATHER!
I know for a fact that Jake only plays headless guitars and collects rack mount digital chorus units. He plugs those fuckers into a Roland jc120 and let's the free jazz flow. Don't let him fool you.
i would say more like wigger than lesbian.
Quote from: Jake on April 14, 2013, 02:37:33 PM
Quote from: clockwork green on April 13, 2013, 10:16:09 PM
Saying that a high gain amp with the gain turned down is the same as a low gain amp is like saying a Ferrari stuck in rush hour traffic is the same driving experience as driving a Honda Civic during the same traffic. They're not at all the same.
This is not even a remotely accurate analogy. Nope. I don't even have dignify by explaining why.
I'll admit that I started this off being a smartass (which really only is/was a reaction to hearing the same rehashed internet gripes, ad infinitum, and prempting them). But I was especially patronizing to you personally about the gain knob, and I should apologize to you.
But I refuse to follow the mantra that everything was better in the past. And if your powerful-yet-low-gain tube amp – a nod to the past, undeniably – works for your purposes, I couldn't be more happy for you. Just know that there's no question that an amp (that people are all too ready to dismiss as a weak-kneed modern day disgrace to the Orange name) absolutely ABSOLUTELY can do that very same thing. And as a bonus, it's got a lot more on tap for those who choose to run Guitar --> Cable --> Amplifier.
PS - mother's milk:
It's funny, Plant got better with age. JPJ, has always and will always kick ass until he is dead. JP still needs to practice.
Rival Sons, wow, what can I say. Shit's come full circle now hasn't it. Hipster Bad Company. Better song writing but the singer is a chip off the old classic rock block.
(http://www.edroman.com/guitars/dean/dimebag/USA_Rebel_Razorback_enlarge.jpg)
Jake's tour axe
Close, but not pointy enough. This is my custom version. It's a little tricky to jump around on the neck, but she's a looker.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k32/jakeh_02/USA_Rebel_Razorback_enlarge_zps3ee71e4c.jpg)
*slow clap*
Bra. fucking. vo.
Heh
Needs 8 strings to be taken seriously today.
I'm surprised you let Dean make your signature model that pointy knowing your proclivity for 360 degree guitar spins around your body.
I'm surprised too, especially considering my guitar strap is a repurposed bandsaw blade.
Quote from: Jake on April 15, 2013, 12:15:13 AM
Close, but not pointy enough. This is my custom version. It's a little tricky to jump around on the neck, but she's a looker.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k32/jakeh_02/USA_Rebel_Razorback_enlarge_zps3ee71e4c.jpg)
Quietly understated...like a Pontiac.
So...after all my talk about wanting a tiny terror, I went to go buy one today and ended up buying a used Egnater Tweaker 15 1x12 combo instead. So far, no regrets.
Egnater Tweakers are nice.
I own a tiny terror and like it. I think it sounds best in high gain applications and cranked. The lower the gain, the less bass and the thing already doesn't have much bass to begin with. I prefer the volume cranked on it. That said volume wise it may not be lacking in a band situation depending on cabinet / drummer / style etc. I run a 4x12 with greenbacks and still wanted more volume. Power chords would be lost in the mix, so it's not good for bongripper / heavy applications IMO.
Nails classic rock though.