Went to the theater last night to see Led Zep's Celebration Day. It was fantastic. They played fantastic. Everything sounded fantastic. Especially Jimmy's guitar tone. It was mother's goddamned milk.
Now if you're keeping score on Jimmy's live rig for that show, it would look like this:
Marshall Plexi – 2
St. Petersburg – 2
New Orange – 4
(http://www.led-zeppelin.org/joomla/images/stories/gear/jp_collection_06.jpg)
Can someone tell me why on earth those amps are so reviled around here? I don't get it. They're good enough for someone who can have any amp of any vintage on the planet, but not good enough for us to chug out an open drop B chord for 15 minutes? And he doesn't play them as per an endorsement either. The logos are half taped over. I'm not expecting everyone to all at once to suddenly start worshipping at the altar of the OR50 or Rockerverb II or whatever...but the sharply focused loathing, I don't understand.
Bonus points for anyone who does not retread the idea that "they're different amps than the old ones." We get that already.
That's a funny shot. He's using two amps to each single 4x12, and then they are only mic'ing one speaker per cab ???
Wonder if it's all for show, and the real amp is hidden somewhere, it's a common enough ruse.
*shrugs*
Who knows? Not me.
Rather than talk out my ass, I'll admit I've never played through a new OR old Orange.
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 18, 2012, 12:16:23 PM
That's a funny shot. He's using two amps to each single 4x12, and then they are only mic'ing one speaker per cab ???
Wonder if it's all for show, and the real amp is hidden somewhere, it's a common enough ruse.
Fairly certain each halfstack just has one functioning head with a backup. Can't tell from that shot, but only one of each head was lit during the performance.
It's also interesting how many low to mid gain guitar legends, Van Halen, Blackmore, Iommi now use really high gain amps. They all still typically run vintage or just slightly higher output pickups.
I still think there's probably a combo or two behind those stacks but maybe not. I think Pagey could get quality tone from most amps and even if he's just using those, who knows what the blend is like. It may be mainly Oranges or maybe he just likes the lows of the Orange.
For all the conspiracy theorists out there, it's pretty well documented that this is the rig that is being played on the movie. Aside from there being two hours of footage of almost every conceivable angle of the stage (including behind amps, drum kits, Robert Plant's colonoscopy cam, etc.) that do not accidentally expose a secret Dumble or Supro, I think you'll find that if the internet is good for one thing, it's dissecting Jimmy Page's equipment and tone.
I highly doubt those amps are straight off the shelf.
Quote from: RacerX on October 18, 2012, 12:23:34 PM
*shrugs*
Who knows? Not me.
Rather than talk out my ass, I'll admit I've never played through a new OR old Orange.
This.
Also, thanks elder Jake for the heads up as I had no idea this existed and come to find out it's screening in my area. /weekend plans.
Quote from: RAGER on October 18, 2012, 01:29:24 PM
I highly doubt those amps are straight off the shelf.
According to the second part of this video, he did in fact pick out (what was likely a stock) AD30 for use with the Black Crowes shows and has used them to date. If he initially dug the Orange, not sure why he'd go and alter the circuit?
Also, according the the guy who mixed the sound at that O2 show, seems like the AD30 was his primary amp and the others were window dressing. This is from the FOH magazine interview with Big Mick Hughes who mixed the Led Zep reunion about Jimmy's amps.
FOH: What about miking the guitar...Did he have like an army of amps up there?
Big Mick: I used just the 30-watt Orange with an Audio-Technica AE 2500...sounded fantastic. Jimmy did have other guitar setups that he switched in and out as needed, which were also mic'ed with AE 2500's.
FOH: 30-Watt Orange?
Big Mick: 30-Watt Orange. I tell you what, in rehearsal when he fired that up, I was like, 'wow, how many watts is that guitar amp?'-and I went down and looked at it-it was 30 watts! I was like, that defies the laws of physics, but I mean really defies the laws of physics. It was the loudest 30 watts I have ever heard!
Quote from: clockwork green on October 18, 2012, 12:41:14 PM
It's also interesting how many low to mid gain guitar legends, Van Halen, Blackmore, Iommi now use really high gain amps. They all still typically run vintage or just slightly higher output pickups.
Let's not forget Billy Gibbons. He uses a lot more gain than one might expect.
maybe when you get old you just get tired of turnin up and diggin in i don't know let's ask Racerx, he's old.
I'm surprised he strapped on a Les Paul again after having back problems for so many years. Then again it's probably custom weight-relieved like they are for Scott Gorham and Billy Gibbons
I had an AD30 for a while and got rid of it. Not because it was a bad amp, but just because it was a boilerplate Marshall tone. I could get the same tone out of my Peavy VTM120 or my Carvin X100B, both of which I bought for a fraction of the price. Also, Jimmy Page is no slouch when it comes to tone. I'm sure he was able to find a good, tasteful tone from that amp no problem. Between his playing and the guitars at his disposal, he's got plenty to work with. I read a lot of references to newer Orange amps being "high gain" a lot lately, but they're as high gain as any Marshall style amp. Besides the fact that they all have preamp and master volume knobs, which can be moved. One could certainly dime the volume and use the pregain as a volume control, if so inclined. You could play blues with a Mesa Dual Rectifier if you want, you don't necessarily have to use an amp with all knobs at noon or dimed, the most extreme or the most well known settings. Page has probably experimented with enough amps that he has any idea of how to dial in a sound he wants pretty quickly by ear.
QuotePage has probably experimented with enough amps that he has any idea of how to dial in a sound he wants pretty quickly by ear.
That, and he uses nos tubes that have been cursed by a witch and painted with the blood of 12-year-old virgins.
I wouldn't call having an amp in an iso box or having having a combo mic'd near the tech a conspiracy...mic'ing a stage is far from ideal. Just because he may not do it doesn't mean that tons of people don't. It's also not always a deceptive think like countless metal bands with fake backlines...it's often a tone thing or a mix thing. If a 10-watt tweed is your signature tone then having it near a bass stack and drum kit is going to have a lot of mic bleed. Or if a 100-watter on 10 is your tone but is too much stage volume for your singer then an iso box is the way to go.
I understand the baggage that the term "conspiracy theory" brings to the table. However, technically your theory was that they were conspiring to deceive the audience into thinking he was using a much larger, more "rock'n roll" style backline in lieu of a much more subtle and subdued appearing combo amplifier(s). Right?
the low midrange and lows of the orange thunderverbs are killer!!!
Quote from: clockwork green on October 18, 2012, 03:07:26 PM
I wouldn't call having an amp in an iso box or having having a combo mic'd near the tech a conspiracy...mic'ing a stage is far from ideal. Just because he may not do it doesn't mean that tons of people don't. It's also not always a deceptive think like countless metal bands with fake backlines...it's often a tone thing or a mix thing. If a 10-watt tweed is your signature tone then having it near a bass stack and drum kit is going to have a lot of mic bleed. Or if a 100-watter on 10 is your tone but is too much stage volume for your singer then an iso box is the way to go.
Those Audio-Technica AE2500s have virtually zero bleed if placed against the speaker grill. They were originally marketed as a kick drum mic, but now a lot of in-the-know peeps are using them for close-micing cabs.
Quote from: Jake on October 18, 2012, 03:30:46 PM
I understand the baggage that the term "conspiracy theory" brings to the table. However, technically your theory was that they were conspiring to deceive the audience into thinking he was using a much larger, more "rock'n roll" style backline in lieu of a much more subtle and subdued appearing combo amplifier(s). Right?
No really...if they were all dummy amps then that would be deceptive but I was just saying he could have other amps behind the wall, in an iso box or below stage just for isolation purposes. A big box with a cable coming out of it doesn't look so great on stage and some people will use the stage amps just for monitoring purposes. My point was that there are a lot of possibilities and its impossible to know without direct knowledge just how much of what you're hearing is from the Oranges.
I don't know the answer to the original question, but I think the common gripe is build quality and reliability, not the tone of new Oranges. Made in China with PCB boards or what have you. That's what I've read on here anyway. That being said, I spent a good couple hours in the local music store last weekend being the guy plugging in a bunch of heads and shooting them out. I tried a reissue JCM 800, Mesa Single Rec, and about 6 Orange heads including Thunderverb, Rockerverb, and AD30. I left with the Thunderverb 30 on a month rental, so I can try it out with my own own guitars, pedals, cabs, and band. But of the ones I tried, the Oranges were the most appealing to me, tone wise. The JCM 800 sounded just fine, but I'm not paying 2G's for a reissue. Plenty of vintage ones to be had for half that price. I liked the TH30 because it sounded badass on the clean channel cranked, and is fairly low wattage with means to cut it down to 15 and 7. My plan is to try and run the clean channel full out, without pissing off every sound guy in town. I'm still undecided on the dirty channel and single "tone shape" knob.
Just on my way to jam with it now, which will be my first chance to get it going in the jam room. I'm sure I'll know more tomorrow.
Quote from: chille01 on October 18, 2012, 08:35:55 PM
I don't know the answer to the original question, but I think the common gripe is build quality and reliability, not the tone of new Oranges. Made in China with PCB boards or what have you. That's what I've read on here anyway. That being said, I spent a good couple hours in the local music store last weekend being the guy plugging in a bunch of heads and shooting them out. I tried a reissue JCM 800, Mesa Single Rec, and about 6 Orange heads including Thunderverb, Rockerverb, and AD30. I left with the Thunderverb 30 on a month rental, so I can try it out with my own own guitars, pedals, cabs, and band. But of the ones I tried, the Oranges were the most appealing to me, tone wise. The JCM 800 sounded just fine, but I'm not paying 2G's for a reissue. Plenty of vintage ones to be had for half that price. I liked the TH30 because it sounded badass on the clean channel cranked, and is fairly low wattage with means to cut it down to 15 and 7. My plan is to try and run the clean channel full out, without pissing off every sound guy in town. I'm still undecided on the dirty channel and single "tone shape" knob.
Just on my way to jam with it now, which will be my first chance to get it going in the jam room. I'm sure I'll know more tomorrow.
headz up orange or50 is $1,299.00 at my fav store that has cheapest prices on orange: http://www.humbuckermusic.com/nsearch.html?query=orange+amp&searchsubmit=GO&vwcatalog=humbucker&.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.humbuckermusic.com%2F
Another issue with Orange's new amps is that no matter how good they sound, some people are just looking for that old OR120 sound and quite often, those people just aren't fans of high gain amps. Maybe if they still made a faithful OR120 people could over look high gain channel switchers because their itch was already scratched.
My 72 Or120 is a gain monster.
They may also be using the Radial JDX box which gets inserted between the speaker out of the amp to the cabinet.
Its basically a DI box for electric guitar and the first to actually capture the amp tone properly.
It's late and I work in a couple hours, and I'm typing on my phone, so this update will be short... But:
Had 3/4 of the band out tonight. Lead guitarist was sick and couldn't make it, which worked out because it let me evaluate the Orange TH-30 without competing with him.
First off, I thought 30 watts would be enough. I dimed the clean channel and it worked fine for a 3 piece. No problem keeping up with drums or bass. However, if second guitarist had been present I know he would have buried me with his Fender Blues Deville. I didn't like being just loud enough, but having no headroom to be louder if I needed to be.
Think I'll take the TH-30 back and try the TH-50.
Also noted that the difference between running it on my 212 open back with Eminince drivers, versus my Traynor 412 with original Jensens was huge. Just sounded louder and more focused with the 412. I think my ultimate goal is to run my next head through 2x 212, one open one closed. Best of both worlds, with half size rig options for smaller gigs. Once I find a head, I'll probably start a "help me choose some speakers" thread.
Last but not least... It was noisy. As in, in between playing, just standing there... A lot of hiss and pop. Of course, the thing was dimed. I'm interested to see what happens with the 50 watt version, if I don't have to push it right to the top. Still digging the clean channel opened up into power tube saturation over the higher gain dirty channel.
Quote from: chille01 on October 19, 2012, 03:38:04 AM
Last but not least... It was noisy. As in, in between playing, just standing there... A lot of hiss and pop. Of course, the thing was dimed. I'm interested to see what happens with the 50 watt version, if I don't have to push it right to the top. Still digging the clean channel opened up into power tube saturation over the higher gain dirty channel.
That doesnt sound right...My home practice amp is the TH-30 and its quiet even when pushed.
I dig the tone I get from it too and have used it in the studio quite a bit.
Quote from: RAGER on October 18, 2012, 10:47:17 PM
My 72 Or120 is a gain monster.
Did I sell you that amp bro.....PIX only with the flight case?
if OR120 is a gain beast to some people then we have different definitions of what a gain beast is.
Quote from: core9 on October 19, 2012, 10:31:13 AM
Quote from: RAGER on October 18, 2012, 10:47:17 PM
My 72 Or120 is a gain monster.
Did I sell you that amp bro.....PIX only with the flight case?
Nope. different amp
Quote from: dunwichamps on October 19, 2012, 10:34:44 AM
if OR120 is a gain beast to some people then we have different definitions of what a gain beast is.
Well to me it is but then again I'd never be the guy with a triple rec scooped mids chuggin a way type of guy. I like unpotted pups too.
Quote from: RAGER on October 19, 2012, 11:10:37 AM
Well to me it is but then again I'd never be the guy with a triple rec scooped mids chuggin a way type of guy. I like unpotted pups too.
they are gainy but not like a Soldano SLO or even some of the amps I build like The Wizard. Does not have to be a scooped mids amp to have significantly more gain available.e
Oh I know. Those two just go hand in hand it seems. Someday I would love to have you build me something. Your build quality is simply outstanding. I'm still gathering data on what I would want.
Quote from: chille01 on October 19, 2012, 03:38:04 AM
Also noted that the difference between running it on my 212 open back with Eminince drivers, versus my Traynor 412 with original Jensens was huge. Just sounded louder and more focused with the 412.
This. An amp's overall volume can be extremely dependent on the speakers and configuration you use. The more speakers you use, the more of you there is to hear. Not to mention the speaker and/or cabinet's efficiency. Which leads me to believe that the extra 20 watts you're trading up for might not yield the loudness you require, if running the same cabinet(s)...?
Quote from: RAGER on October 19, 2012, 12:08:01 PM
Oh I know. Those two just go hand in hand it seems. Someday I would love to have you build me something. Your build quality is simply outstanding. I'm still gathering data on what I would want.
no problemo.
Quote from: Submarine on October 18, 2012, 11:17:44 PM
They may also be using the Radial JDX box which gets inserted between the speaker out of the amp to the cabinet.
Its basically a DI box for electric guitar and the first to actually capture the amp tone properly.
I have one of these and it sounds like a sledgehammered asshole farting blood. And the jack on it has been fucked up since I pulled it out of the box. Everyone raves about Radials reliability and how top notch they are.
Simply put, not as advertised in my experience.
Quote from: Jake on October 19, 2012, 12:27:01 PM
Quote from: chille01 on October 19, 2012, 03:38:04 AM
Also noted that the difference between running it on my 212 open back with Eminince drivers, versus my Traynor 412 with original Jensens was huge. Just sounded louder and more focused with the 412.
This. An amp's overall volume can be extremely dependent on the speakers and configuration you use. The more speakers you use, the more of you there is to hear. Not to mention the speaker and/or cabinet's efficiency. Which leads me to believe that the extra 20 watts you're trading up for might not yield the loudness you require, if running the same cabinet(s)...?
I plan on swapping the speakers out in that 212 soon, and also loading up another empty 212 closed back I just picked up. Run them both together for essentially a half open, half closed 412. But really, I don't think the 212 is the limiting factor. I run the same cab with my Traynor YBA-1, and The only volume issues I have is being too loud. That's the reason I was attracted to the TH-30, the ability to switch down to lower wattages.
Gotcha. Well I've got a 50watt Thunderverb and I can tell you that when I run it with 6x12s (2x12 on top of a 4x12), I'm sure glad it has a built in attenuator. Even at 30-50% volume, it needs attenuated down another 20-25%. Fucker is loud.
that control labelled attenuator is not an attenuator, thats a big fat lie. Its just a post phase master volume
Well then fuck that mess. I putting it in the garbage.
Quote from: Jake on October 19, 2012, 05:49:19 PM
Well then fuck that mess. I putting it in the garbage.
Can I have it?
TM
Death to false attenuation!
Attenuation in general just seems like a mess...too many amps and such just seem to fall apart, they often color the tone in a negative way.
its okay that its not an attenuator. Essentially what you have are 2 pre phase masters labelled volume for each channel, oddly pre FX loop, and then the post phase after the phase inverter. I played through a thunderverb 200, that control is not particularly a problem.
Quote from: Pissy on October 19, 2012, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Submarine on October 18, 2012, 11:17:44 PM
They may also be using the Radial JDX box which gets inserted between the speaker out of the amp to the cabinet.
Its basically a DI box for electric guitar and the first to actually capture the amp tone properly.
I have one of these and it sounds like a sledgehammered asshole farting blood. And the jack on it has been fucked up since I pulled it out of the box. Everyone raves about Radials reliability and how top notch they are.
Simply put, not as advertised in my experience.
I use Radial products quite a bit and they can take the punishment of the road. I have heard the JDX used with excellent results but in all situations mics were blended in. Like with any piece of gear - your mileage may vary.
One of my mates has the TH30 head and 2x12 cab. Sounds really nice.
My other mate has the TH30 combo which I tried in my search for a good guitar amp. I didn't like it much at all. Personally I think the cab itself is too small and prevents the sound from having any body whatsoever.
I like the Ad30 heads from previous experience. However outside of the Terror stuff I just find the Orange stuff to be too highly priced for what you are getting.
I have a Rockerverb 50 head/Orange 4x12 setup and it rules. Gear tyrants and bedroom legends be damned :)
I quite like the AD140, sounds great if a tad underpowered for bass.
Quote from: Submarine on October 19, 2012, 06:21:24 PM
Quote from: Pissy on October 19, 2012, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Submarine on October 18, 2012, 11:17:44 PM
They may also be using the Radial JDX box which gets inserted between the speaker out of the amp to the cabinet.
Its basically a DI box for electric guitar and the first to actually capture the amp tone properly.
I have one of these and it sounds like a sledgehammered asshole farting blood. And the jack on it has been fucked up since I pulled it out of the box. Everyone raves about Radials reliability and how top notch they are.
Simply put, not as advertised in my experience.
I use Radial products quite a bit and they can take the punishment of the road. I have heard the JDX used with excellent results but in all situations mics were blended in. Like with any piece of gear - your mileage may vary.
I tried using it live twice and both times it failed on me. When it did work at rehearsal getting tracks down, it was used like you describe in conjunction with a mic'd cab and blending it in would yield a good sound, I will say that. I narrowed the problem down to the jack and haven't messed with it since.
i use a Radial Big Shot and am quite pleased with it. Very well built product.
Well, took the TH-30 back, and the TH-100 I intended to pick up walked out the door 20 minutes before I got there. Guess it wasn't meant to be. There is however this on Craigslist:
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/msg/3323828162.html (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/msg/3323828162.html)
Not a new Orange but an old one. Anyone know much about this series? Price seems a little steep to me, but I don't know much about vintage Orange prices .
overpriced
Quote from: dunwichamps on October 20, 2012, 04:29:13 PM
overpriced
I suspected as much. Any suggestion on a fair price, or assessment on the amp if price is removed from the equation? I doubt the guy would let it go for less than $1500, fair or not.
The OD series is more or less the OR with a PPIMV but they arent known for being super pricey vintage units. I wouldnt pay over 1200 really.
I played one of those tiny terror bass heads through an Ampeg 8x10 cab today.
I think that the $900 sticker price on it was high but the thing sounded pretty good.
It may be possible to have someone build you a tube preamp, in a small enclosure, and just couple it to a regular old Class D lightweight power amp. Which may be cheaper. But then you lose the tinyness of it, and have a pedal and a power amp.
All Orange have puported to have done is build their tube preamp, and shove a Class D power module in there.
Nick what would you charge for a two tube preamp pedal?
Actually a quick Google reveals Verellen have done just that, built their preamp section into a pedal, just add yer own power amp I guess.
(http://www.verellenamplifiers.com/images/Verellen_PreAmplifiers.png)
Owch $700 does not make it cheaper than a Tiny Terror :o
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 20, 2012, 08:52:01 PM
It may be possible to have someone build you a tube preamp, in a small enclosure, and just couple it to a regular old Class D lightweight power amp. Which may be cheaper. But then you lose the tinyness of it, and have a pedal and a power amp.
All Orange have puported to have done is build their tube preamp, and shove a Class D power module in there.
Nick what would you charge for a two tube preamp pedal?
The problem with a true tube preamp pedal is that you need a serious toroid PT that will deliver the required 300-600 mA of heater current (if you run 6.3 or 12.6V heaters) and also the 250-350V you need for the HVDC part of the power supply. So you end of needing to get custom wound toroids. I probably couldn't in parts do it cheaper than 500-600 bucks.
Quote from: dunwichamps on October 21, 2012, 09:35:07 AM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 20, 2012, 08:52:01 PM
It may be possible to have someone build you a tube preamp, in a small enclosure, and just couple it to a regular old Class D lightweight power amp. Which may be cheaper. But then you lose the tinyness of it, and have a pedal and a power amp.
All Orange have puported to have done is build their tube preamp, and shove a Class D power module in there.
Nick what would you charge for a two tube preamp pedal?
The problem with a true tube preamp pedal is that you need a serious toroid PT that will deliver the required 300-600 mA of heater current (if you run 6.3 or 12.6V heaters) and also the 250-350V you need for the HVDC part of the power supply. So you end of needing to get custom wound toroids. I probably couldn't in parts do it cheaper than 500-600 bucks.
Pulled apart one of those Blackstar HT pedals to see how they get their power sorted? Think it is 18v in and stepped up for the valve, although I've only been in broken ones.
its all doable if you wanna dabble in some power electronics. You could easily get 300V starting with just a 12V DC supply using boost converters (switching type supplies) which is good approach since tubes dont need a lot of current. You can first get the 6.3V regulated DC heaters from the 12V tap then get ~85V by using a voltage quadrupler and floating that with the pre-regulated 12V rectified tap. I am looking to avoid having to make a pcb to do the power electronics parts.
orange is coming out with 6 new amps for 2013... fingers crossed ;) ;D
Weber make those step up transformers, 12V AC IN, 260V AC OUT. So if you had even .5A in a 12V supply, surely even RatShack have something for this.
theres plenty of Ei core transformers but they are much larger and bulkier so it makes it hard to fit into a reasonable enclosure without sticking it on top or making an overly large enclosure (IMO). If you have 12VAC in then you first need a 120 to 12 wall wart. Id rather just stick 120V into the preamp and get what I need with 1 transformation.
Hoffman Amps has an entire setup for the wall wart + internal toroid approach.
I want to fit everything inside of a a Hammond 1590D, which has an internal dimension of around 7.2 x 4.5 x 2
Ah, I was looking at that Verellen, which is using a Moog style enclosure, thinking you could mount two transformers on the back panel horizontally, I've got something like that somewhere. There are project xfmrs, and flea power xfmrs, that could be fitted to that larger style of enclosure. The power xfmr for the standalone reverb unit is 2.25 thick x 3.5" wide. It would have enough juice for the job, but wouldn't be small enough for your choice of enclosure style.
It might be less costly to get an enclosure to fit the xfmr, rather than a xfmr to fit the enclosure, but this was just an excercise. Though there may be a market for an orange preamp in a pedal.
yea if u relax the enclosure requirement, then it will become easier.
In terms of a OR or GT120 pre in a box, it would be worth it if you built the PI as well. Without the PI its not really going to get you the real feeling of either amp. Nice that the pre + pi consists of just 2 tubes which i think is doable. The only thing your left with is which PI tap to use as an output.
Well you could attenuate both, and use them as a balanced out. Off hand I can't think of any way you could sum them, maybe via a xfmr of some kind?
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 22, 2012, 12:23:25 PM
Well you could attenuate both, and use them as a balanced out. Off hand I can't think of any way you could sum them, maybe via a xfmr of some kind?
Yes a balanced out is a nice approach. Summin wise I am not sure, would be nice if the power amp had a balanced input. If you brought the signal level down enough even op amp summers would work.
Then it would be best for a Class D setup which might need very low input impedance (compared to the average plate impedance of a 12ax7) and not a lot of input swing.
A guy I know custom/hand builds clones. My ballpark guess is he could build you an Orange-style head for <$1000 with reverb that sounds fantastic and would take around 1-2 months to make. If you're interested then PM me and I'll send you his details.
Thanks Agent... I would have looked into that, if I hadn't just pulled the trigger on an OR-50 last night. Good to know the option is out there for the future though!
I finally listened to the Celebration Day stuff. First the cd and then the movie...I thought JP had terrible tone throughout the show. Overly compressed, too much gain and that damn phaser reminded me of how much chorus ruins Rush for me. It does sound exactly like those modern Orange amps so I'd imagine his other amps were low in the mix. They just don't breathe or have the dynamic range of his old Marshall's. John Paul Jones also had terrible, modern bass tone that had no depth or growl to it.
Quote from: clockwork green on November 27, 2012, 07:16:15 PM
I finally listened to the Celebration Day stuff. First the cd and then the movie...I thought JP had terrible tone throughout the show. Overly compressed, too much gain and that damn phaser reminded me of how much chorus ruins Rush for me. It does sound exactly like those modern Orange amps so I'd imagine his other amps were low in the mix. They just don't breathe or have the dynamic range of his old Marshall's. John Paul Jones also had terrible, modern bass tone that had no depth or growl to it.
Pretty much my interpretation of the bits I have heard. I'm usually quite partial to modern bass tone but that JPJ sound just had too much 'zing' to it to work well. My impression was that the Led Zep reunion had the same problems as the Cream reunion. Its sounds so damn 'safe'. All the rough edges that added to the original sound have been removed in order to achieve a cleaner more, clinical mix which is a bit bland, but palatable to the rich London types who are able to get tickets to the gig. It isn't that it sounds bad, more 'meh'.
I also generally hate chorus and phasers on guitar.
After reading your opinions on the acceptable amounts of compression and "zing," I have to completely change course and totally agree with you. It fuckin sucked.
Compression is great for hugs and some buttpussy lovin' but not for Zeppelin.
Understood.
It's weird they didn't call you up for a consult first.
I'm personally a little hurt by that...Pagey and I almost have the same initials so I thought we were close like that. You should also check with if you like stuff or not first. What if we all had our own opinions? It would be a mess of debate and hurt feelings along with the ocssional independent thinker.
Late to the thread, but why the fuck would anyone spend 2 grand on a new orange if they want the old OR120 tone? You can get a vintage OR for less than that.
Speaking of OR120s, here is one for sale in my neck of the woods. If I already wasn't the proud pappa of a 70's Or120, I would be selling off all sorts of shit to get this.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=218&sid=72770&ad=22962193
wicked overpriced but a kool unit
Oh I don't think anyone (at least anyone around here) is under the illusion that old Orange tone is going to be coming from a new model.
I can't speak for anyone else, but THE main reason for buying a new Orange was to get a distorted tone without resorting to stomp boxes or having to push the amp to very high dB levels for break up.
Quote from: Jake on November 28, 2012, 09:09:56 PM
Oh I don't think anyone (at least anyone around here) is under the illusion that old Orange tone is going to be coming from a new model.
I can't speak for anyone else, but THE main reason for buying a new Orange was to get a distorted tone without resorting to stomp boxes or having to push the amp to very high dB levels for break up.
Unless you're paying for the point-to-point wiring or the vintage models...which are all over $2K then..no. haha. My guitar player has the TH-30 and he absolutely knew how it was going to sound when he got it.
Antecedal evidence report part deus:
Most of the heavy bands I see here using high wattage amps, over 50 watts, are using a hot p'ups or a distortion/overdrive/boost/etc. pedal maxxed out in front of it. There is no way they can replicate the tone they want without cranking the volume to a point where the sound-man will cut them off. With that saying, most sound good too.