For years I was caught up in the idea that one had to be able to play fast to write good or half way decent solos, not correct. Why I liked but failed to consider Bathory and some other bands that have made excellent use of a few notes rather than blistering fast blues or shred I'm not sure. By getting out of "the box"(whatever scale I think fits best not that I "know" more than 1 or 2) and instead concentrating on the notes of the riff/part I'm playing over, I've allowed that whole feel thing to start to happen. I'm not saying I'm good at it or that playing in a blind manner is better than knowing what you are doing but it's working for me. I've had glimpses of this before but this time it's leading me all over the fretboard and I have the confidence to actually write melodic(yet not flashy) guitar solos now. I can use the blues box poorly at medium speed but for the band I'm in even doing that with some extra notes for added metallic darkness doesn't work nearly as well.
Wondering how those of you who solo got started on it, especially if you don't/weren't using the blues box. If you did/are or just want to talk about soloing that's cool too.
its all about how your brain processes audio.
Less (notes) is often more (feeling) IMO.
Also, i like the word "lead" sometimes (as in guitar lead) which suggests an interesting melodic contribution, as opposed to "solo" which suggests that somebody is simply displaying their boring technical skills.
Start playing solos over your favorite songs. Don't wait for the lead break to come, start soloing from the start to the finish. What this is going to do is get you able to make your leads sound good in any type of situation. It also makes for more opportunities solo instead of fast forwarding and rewinding and looking for lead breaks which are already taken up by some one else's lead work anyway. At first just worry about staying in the general key of the song don't worry about any scales or chord changes after a while you will find all the right notes for that song at any given time then you can use that to build your own synthetic scale to use for soloing. Just relax and don't think about the notes you are going to play your fingers already know where they are just let them start playing. This is how you tap into "The Big Sound"
Once you get good at that and you apply it to your own songs you will be amazed at the stuff you can come up with all with out any real musical knowledge or technique.
-Spook
http://www.hydrozeen.com/spookstricklandguitarmethod.html
Lead yeah, I get what you are saying. Sometimes they are basically just long riffs that don't repeat or only have short parts within that repeat.
I agree that playing over songs is a good idea, I've done this before and need to do it a lot more often. I have a CD guitar trainer device that is perfect for it. I've been playing leads over my own recorded guitar tracks a bunch this week and it is really fun.
The band I'm in used to be a 2 piece but now as a trio leads/solos are much more appropriate.
Once you get the hang of working from what not to play, you only need to know the chromatic scale. Pretty hard getting there though, usually via learning loads of scales.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jFAhN6V9s
I'm not in your situation, but I will say this: It took me 5 years to learn a lot of the scales/modes and it's taken me about 15 to forget them. It was nice knowing so that I understand the instrument a bit better, but it made my playing predictable and less interesting. Experiment, experiment, experiment.
Whatever serves the song best. I don't always equate slow with feeling, nor do I associate speed with technicality.
Gregg Ginn plays fast stuff that "feels" right. Randy Rhoads solos were compositions within compositions. However the one
note solo in Cinnamon Girl was the perfect solo. If Slayer were playing blues box solos it would not have sounded so evil.
Again, whatever serves the song.
I try to be melodic as possible, that's my game.
Quote from: Submarine on July 26, 2012, 10:47:37 AM
Whatever serves the song best. I don't always equate slow with feeling, nor do I associate speed with technicality.
Gregg Ginn plays fast stuff that "feels" right. Randy Rhoads solos were compositions within compositions. However the one
note solo in Cinnamon Girl was the perfect solo. If Slayer were playing blues box solos it would not have sounded so evil.
Again, whatever serves the song.
I wrote one last night that is a bit flashy and fast by my standards but slow compared to any shredder. The main thing is that I think it fits the song. If it doesn't feel right at practice I'll scrap it and write another.
Quote from: AgentofOblivion on July 26, 2012, 10:24:45 AM
I'm not in your situation, but I will say this: It took me 5 years to learn a lot of the scales/modes and it's taken me about 15 to forget them. It was nice knowing so that I understand the instrument a bit better, but it made my playing predictable and less interesting. Experiment, experiment, experiment.
I like it.
Quote from: Mr. Foxen on July 26, 2012, 07:53:08 AM
Once you get the hang of working from what not to play, you only need to know the chromatic scale. Pretty hard getting there though, usually via learning loads of scales.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jFAhN6V9s
Very cool. In metal those 'wrong' notes can be very dark.
I always like to think of a solo as a series of phrases or melodic sentences (whatever you want to define it as). Couple things you can do to make them more interesting is vary the length of the phrases and near the end of the solo "restate" or "requote" the main melodic theme of the solo as a variation.
I look at it this way: Lead guitar accents the song, a solo accents the player. Accenting the song dictates that you play within the confines of everything else going on, and a solo only has the confines of your tastes.
I play what is comfortable for me to play,if a song is uncomfortable for me to play a lead line, then I don't do it. I'll find other ways of adding something, usually I rely on a cool effect or combination of fx.
Alot of good advice has been given on how to get approach it and get comfortable with it, experiment with your own phrasing is my best advice. I think Santana said that when he plays a lead, he is either praying, or cursing you out. I developed my lead phrasing to mimick my speech patterns, and I think I have evolved into a very limited guitarist because I have very limited speech skills. Legend is I'm half tarded.
a) play to the music, the song.
b) don't force a solo. see A.
c) wring out the notes for all they're worth.
d) pace your tricks and don't use them the same way every time.
e) learn to play in different positions.
Think of them as vocal lines. Each guitar line might be constructed like a sentence with a beginning, middle and end. (narrative structure, builds, wraps up at the end, a complete thought). No run-on sentences, have a period/punctuation. Commas are where you take a breath... a pause in your phrasing. You stay on the same topic -- find a thematic coherence (not "the beach was hot, I didn't like those cookies, then the Germans invaded, bath time is fun time"). You would sound like a crazy person. Find a musical concept (as a central 'topic')
I really like the comparison of music to conversation... phrasing, call and response, etc.
Quote from: The Riffer on July 26, 2012, 03:07:34 PMI developed my lead phrasing to mimick my speech patterns, and I think I have evolved into a very limited guitarist because I have very limited speech skills. Legend is I'm half tarded.
Come on now.
lots o good nuggets in here
ive been getting quicker being at two maybe three chord riffs 6months ago
to throwing in some picking here and there now
so this is perfect timing for this to come up
definately a lack of confidence at some point even just to hit one not and let it ring out
forget a lead or solo
it started with alternately strumming the chords and picking them where i started to figure it out
its tough to make sense of it googling "guitar scales" or watching youtube
put the learn on me dudes, im all ears
Get a a looper. Lay a rhythm. Play some leads.
Here is your lesson/inspiration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiT_MsmrrR8&feature=related
The older I get, the more I tend to think that the guitarist is actually not as responsible for what makes a great guitar solo as we often like to think.
To my ear, it's often the drummer and bass player who actually make the difference between a good solo and an amazing solo
I think this is especially true when you listen to a lot of the "name" players you see on the covers of guitar magazines - page, van halen, slash, iommi, hendrix, blackmore
Quote from: ryansummit on July 26, 2012, 09:17:55 PM
put the learn on me dudes, im all ears
One thing I'm doing now is I'll hit the first note of the riff of the part I'm playing over to start the lead and from there I'll just explore the neck. What notes near that note sound "right" to start it off? That sort of thing. For another leadish part I basically play the vocal melody on guitar which is very similar to but not exactly the same as the riff but 2 octaves up and obviously not power chords. Maybe that's cheesy but I like it.
Quote from: SunnO))) on July 26, 2012, 09:23:54 PM
Get a a looper. Lay a rhythm. Play some leads.
Any of these things cheap used?
Quote from: mawso on July 27, 2012, 05:34:54 AM
The older I get, the more I tend to think that the guitarist is actually not as responsible for what makes a great guitar solo as we often like to think.
To my ear, it's often the drummer and bass player who actually make the difference between a good solo and an amazing solo
I think this is especially true when you listen to a lot of the "name" players you see on the covers of guitar magazines - page, van halen, slash, iommi, hendrix, blackmore
Another Vic Wooten reference, but I've jsut read his book and it made a bunch of stuff slot together, there is a chapter on how the rhythm section supports the solo, and it basically bears no relation to the solo itself but is all about controlling the dynamic as it progresses. The dude might operate in a different world musically to stoner bands, but the stuff totally applies.
A good way to ease into learning to solo is to use notes directly from the chords you'd be playing otherwise. Billy Gibbons does this a lot.
Also, you'll want to learn the basic blues box. Once you get tired of being in the box, go looking for different octaves of those blues scale notes elsewhere on the neck. You can map 'em out on paper for reference.
Quote from: Lumpy on July 26, 2012, 08:45:02 PM
Think of them as vocal lines. Each guitar line might be constructed like a sentence with a beginning, middle and end. (narrative structure, builds, wraps up at the end, a complete thought). No run-on sentences, have a period/punctuation. Commas are where you take a breath... a pause in your phrasing. You stay on the same topic -- find a thematic coherence (not "the beach was hot, I didn't like those cookies, then the Germans invaded, bath time is fun time"). You would sound like a crazy person. Find a musical concept (as a central 'topic')
I really like the comparison of music to conversation... phrasing, call and response, etc.
Quote from: The Riffer on July 26, 2012, 03:07:34 PMI developed my lead phrasing to mimick my speech patterns, and I think I have evolved into a very limited guitarist because I have very limited speech skills. Legend is I'm half tarded.
Come on now.
Its all true.
Quote from: RacerX on July 27, 2012, 08:31:13 AM
A good way to ease into learning to solo is to use notes directly from the chords you'd be playing otherwise. Billy Gibbons does this a lot.
Also, you'll want to learn the basic blues box. Once you get tired of being in the box, go looking for different octaves of those blues scale notes elsewhere on the neck. You can map 'em out on paper for reference.
Definitely. I agree on the blues box although if the riffs of a song aren't build on blues notes it doesn't work as well for soloing.
If you're playing rock & the blues box (minor pentatonic scale) doesn't work, chances are you need to go to the major pentatonic. The guick fix is moving the blues box 4 frets down (ex: If the song's in "A", use the "F# blues box). This is what Leslie West's doing in Mississippi Queen breaks & solo and is also the scale a lot of country/southern rock solos use (ex: Ramblin' Man). Keith Richards uses it a lot, too.
I actually have no idea what scales most of my riffs are in but they are generally darker and maybe more Euro metal sounding than blues box type stuff. All I know is that so far bluesy type soloing usually doesn't sound right for them. We may end up doing some more bluesy stuff in the future though. I tend to add notes to the blues box to make it sound more metal when I fool around with it.
Quote from: RacerX on July 27, 2012, 02:37:23 PM
If you're playing rock & the blues box (minor pentatonic scale) doesn't work, chances are you need to go to the major pentatonic. The guick fix is moving the blues box 4 frets down (ex: If the song's in "A", use the "F# blues box). This is what Leslie West's doing in Mississippi Queen breaks & solo and is also the scale a lot of country/southern rock solos use (ex: Ramblin' Man). Keith Richards uses it a lot, too.
^ this. same blues box, but moved goes from minor blues to major folksy/country
this is why the key of G is so awesome for guitar players. it uses the E blues box for wankery.
and i know you meant "3 steps down" like your f# is the relative minor for A, as you mentioned
i made up an entire solo for "friends in low places" like this. it is in the key of A maj and i used the f# blues box, except i moved it all over the neck
I started this thread talking about how solos don't have to be fast but tonight I re-did one of mine and it's the fastest part I've ever written for a song. Very fun. It's not shred but it's going to take a lot of practice to get the muscle memory completely down and eliminate the slop.
I've been working on soloing on the lap steel. Here's a recent take over a prerecorded backing track. I'm looking for constructive feedback on tone, pitch, technique, etc...
[soundcloud]http://soundcloud.com/alan-47/lapsteel-mp3[/soundcloud]
Uhhhhh. That's baby making music, right there.
Would like to here it with a splashier reverb tail or slightly longer delay. You know, just a little more liquidy as the notes decay.
Ha! Thanks.
Yeah, I get you on the 'verb. If I crank the knob on my nanograil a bit it'll blur the attack some and add trail. I gotta get a bit better on the volume pedal for this style—I want it to sound more like a bowed instrument. I'm getting it here & there, but not consistently.
Whoa, kind of reminds me of '70s Yes. Dig.
I hated solos for a long time in my teenage years - then grew to like then love them. What works best for me the best is recording myself and my band with improvised soloing, listening to what worked and what didn't and learning from there. I've found what seemed face melting at the time didn't sound half as cool on the recording.