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Some dickwad tried to repair it with epoxy. Made the wood impermeable to glue. 100% unrepairable. I'm going to have to... pull the binding, pull the frets, pull the fretboard, remove the truss rod, cut a proper scarf joint, glue, plane the neck true, route a new channel, shape the new headstock, cap the headstock, drill the tuner holes, replace the fretboard, redo the binding, fret it, level the frets, crown the frets, shape the binding to the frets, and file a new nut.
70% of this? First time doing it. Headstock repairs are usually really, really easy. This one... not so much. Will I fail? Probably... am I going to try my hardest to get all of my first tries correct? You fuckin' bet. Stay tuned.
Sometimes I wonder what the fuck people are up to, an why they don't just ask some people who might have the first clue what they are talking before they do something. Then maybe they wouldn't buy shittily made guitars like Gibsons and wouldn't have problems liken this.
Get some headless hardware on there.
Why couldn't you get a new neck for it instead?
Quote from: johnny problem on June 21, 2012, 07:48:34 PM
Why couldn't you get a new neck for it instead?
set neck.
Never dug a neck out of a Gibson, but sounds like less effort than the other way, since hte fingerboard is set and such, does mean buying a neck though.
I'm not digging the neck out, there is no way, hahaha.
Go for it bro.
headless hardware!!!!!!!!
Steam the neck out?
Quote from: Pissy on June 21, 2012, 11:35:44 PM
Steam the neck out?
I'd rather do the fuckin' fretwork, have you ever tried handfitting something that has already been prefit for something else? Not to mention, those necks don't come bound, boarded or fretted, and good luck getting any help from Gibson on the matter, they won't just send you a neck blank for a Les Paul. I ain't worried about doing it, It's just the matter of getting everything off without wrecking it... (the board.)
The binding will most likely have to be completely replaced unless it comes off PERFECTLY. Lots of glue removal to come...
EDIT: I may just use splines. It depends on how much of that epoxy I can cook out of the wood. Anyone have any idea what solvents will eat epoxy, but not wreck wood?
EDIT EDIT: Called in re-enforcements, my mentor happens to be a very well known and respected luthier in the Nashville area, and he told me I'll never get all of the epoxy out. He said get some really strong two part epoxy, epoxy it AGAIN, then add splines, and pins if possible. He said after the repair was done, let it set for 72 hours without strings, then string it. He said if it starts to creak, let off it and check for stress fractures in the splines, if there aren't any, tune it up.
Xayk, he told me not to let it leave the shop for at LEAST two months after this is done, because if it's going to break again, it's just going to do it on its own, sitting on a stand or in it's case. I honestly don't see the splines giving up the ghost, I'm gonna go to the hardwood joint in town tomorrow and see if I can find a really high strength, dense wood to put into it. Purpleheart or something like that, it's like fuckin' wooden steel. It ain't gonna be pretty, I'll do my best to cover it over with my minimal paint skillz.
Semen.
Looks like a buttload of work, but hopefully it's fun, and it's a low-stakes chance to dissect a nice guitar.
:)
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Got bored and stripped some of the paint to fully inspect the damage... boy, it's bad.
That joint makes me sad, though.. rough lookin'.
Yes, bootlegged sleep patches.
Wow. Holy shit man that looks terrible. These are the kind of tests that make you go up a level and earn you a shitload of hit points. I'd say you're ready to take on Ganon if you pull this off. Please keep us posted.
Quote from: lordfinesse on June 22, 2012, 01:16:39 AM
Wow. Holy shit man that looks terrible. These are the kind of tests that make you go up a level and earn you a shitload of hit points. I'd say you're ready to take on Ganon if you pull this off. Please keep us posted.
Your neck is gettin' close. I can only do so much a day. All that is left is the headstock, then it can come home!
Cool, thanks. No rush... whenever is fine.
I know that paper weight! :D
Quote from: Lumpy on June 22, 2012, 12:29:23 AM
Looks like a buttload of work, but hopefully it's fun, and it's a low-stakes chance to dissect a nice guitar.
You nailed it. I got that guitar for free, for helping a coworker out. If memory serves it's either a '92 or a '93, he took it to college and fucked it up. Had some slouch repair it with epoxy, which didn't hold. Then it sat in his basement for 15 years. The quotes I got to repair it weren't the end of the world, per se, but I couldn't see spending that much money to repair a guitar I a) don't know if I like and b) have no emotional attachment to.
When SunnJake said he'd take a swing at it was awesome, 'cause maybe he (and all of us!) learns something in the process, maybe I get a playable instrument, but at the very least we'll all have a good time looking at dissection pictures of a nice guitar. A "discussion facilitator," as it were.
Quote from: SunnO))) on June 21, 2012, 11:43:10 PM
Xayk, he told me not to let it leave the shop for at LEAST two months after this is done, because if it's going to break again, it's just going to do it on its own, sitting on a stand or in it's case. I honestly don't see the splines giving up the ghost, I'm gonna go to the hardwood joint in town tomorrow and see if I can find a really high strength, dense wood to put into it. Purpleheart or something like that, it's like fuckin' wooden steel. It ain't gonna be pretty, I'll do my best to cover it over with my minimal paint skillz.
Whatever you think'll work, and I will always, always take functional over pretty. It's in your hands now. :)
Quote from: Mr. Foxen on June 21, 2012, 08:09:20 PM
Never dug a neck out of a Gibson, but sounds like less effort than the other way, since hte fingerboard is set and such, does mean buying a neck though.
the only way to get a genuine gibson neck is to hack the body off one..
(and most gibson players are pretty attached to the idea of playing a real gibson, hence owning one in the first place)
I don't know if it could be done, but if I got the guitar for free, I'd cut the neck off and try to cut a thing so I could put a bolt on neck on it something with a Fender style headstock or something really non Gibson looking just to have something weird looking.
It would probably play and sound like shit, I suppose.
Quote from: mawso on June 23, 2012, 04:25:15 AM
the only way to get a genuine gibson neck is to hack the body off one..
(and most gibson players are pretty attached to the idea of playing a real gibson, hence owning one in the first place)
Being a Gibson neck was the problem to start with, idea would be to replace it with a properly made neck.
We get it, Foxen. You don't like Gibsons. Good for you.
Holy shit that's some damn fine craftsmanship.
Quote from: RAGER on June 23, 2012, 05:58:53 PM
I seen't this a while back, Those are all REALLY fucking good, the differing factor here is the botched epoxy repair...
I guess you can do a splice like he did.
That was probably a 1500+ dollar job... just sayin'.
That's a dead guitar imo. Just send it back. My Ripper is on the way this week or next btw.
yeah no shit. $1100 guitar that needs a $1500 repair don't equate. Unless you just wanna learn on something. But I'd make no guarantees. if it plays great afterwards. 300-400 bucks. if it plays like ass afterwards, no charge cuz it didn't play at all before. At least it plays like ass now. ;D
But what year is it?
edit* i reread the thread.
Imma make it live, you bet y'alls asses on that. It wont be crazy pretty, but it will play, and play well. It fits together pretty well. Im going to epoxy it, again (-shudder-) then clamp it tight, let it cure, then take a heat gun to it to see if I can get the old epoxy to mix with the new shit. Then... splines... then a new headstock cap, then probably some form of paint... i wish I had a paint booth...
I've had a luck softening old epoxy for removal from poorly repaired cabinet doirs with MEK (nasty fuckin stuff) and a brass bristled brush before. the MEK will destroy the finish on the guitar for sure but worth a try if u can get hold of some. at the very least you can reduce the amount of epoxy to something more manageable.
See, my issue using solvents here is the inability to scrape out the epoxy. Unleas that shit just straight dissolves it into nothing?
It breaks down the petroleum parts stuff into more subtle particles. The filler in the epoxy will remain, and it would need to get out somehow. Might turn to powder you can blow out with the air compressor. I would wonder about how it works on wood though. the wood will absorb the solvent and it might take a while to leech back out. If it doesn't get out of there, efforts to repair/refin will be futile.
Do you have an ultrasonic cleaner? once you get it to a point where your ready to make sure the surfaces are clean for putting back together (post epoxy removal) you might try dippng it into one of them with a straight Murphy's oil soap bath. I have one and I use it all the time, but there's always a water component in the bath, which I'd imagine is bad for what you need. Murphy's is good for wood though, right? Of course then you'll be tasked with removing the residue of the soap. I think Denatured alcohol would be ok here, then back to the air compressor, the alcohol is mild enough that the paint should be ok, and no residue.
DO NOT put any solvent into an ultrasonic cleaner. Fire will ensue.
I'd be worried about the mek soaking in and fucking with the new epoxy down the road. It probably would break down the old epoxy though.
ive done a lot of restoration on furniture cabinets
never fine woodwork or guitars
so i did some research before jumping in(had to edit to make clear that i have no idea what im talking about as far as guitars go,i would slop gorrilla glue on, shoot it with finish nails, maybe one of those metal framing cleats with all the teeth, string,and get laughed at)
regular paint strippers like zipstrip are made to remove epoxy aswell
when its real fancy wood i use the citristrip and that seems milder(might be an illusion)
but it should soften the epoxy, depending on how long you leave it on it breaks down more layers
then solvent and a brush wil expose the wood grain
then neutralize x3, whatever route you take
if your planning to use a dowel or some kind of biscuit whatever i would make a small pilot hole so it can get underneath the top layer quicker and break it up from the inside (ultrasonic sounds like a better idea)
when i was doing epoxy concrete coatings over existing epoxy the proper prep for a good bond only involved scuffing up the existing so it wasn't shiny but thats concrete to be walked or driven on
not much tensile strngth issues to worry about
however you do it it will be a nasty battle scar of awesome
You know what Jake, you might consider using this as an opportunity to go all Dan Erlwine and fashion a jig specifically intended to mock up both pieces for the purpose of kerfing out the bad swath of wood in favor of a genuine mahogany scab, fingered in. If you got that process done right, you'd probably be in the catbird seat for bringing the dead to life and turning many frowns upside down. Plenty of dudes have done what you see there and would be happy to send you their paperweights.
The hard part about that is the truss rod. Im not sure if I can remove it from the headstock end... thats totally doable if I can. If not... infinite pain. Hahaha. I have to strip the neck down to the joint where they scarfed in the headstock, orignally. anyways.
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Tell philfinesse that he's lucky i love Husky. Ive hand scraped every inch of this tele neck with this knife.
You guys and your newfangled old ways techniques.
I know he's looking fwd to it.