This ain't no insider information or nothin', but from personal experience and close up product inspection of what has to be several hundred instruments at this point. Avoid them at all costs. I've been waiting for someone who would be hard-headed enough to defy my warnings (franksnbeans,) that was close enough to me to allow me to rectify all of the issues that are RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX with new Gibsons. Well, our very owner ShockDean didn't listen to me one day, and decided to spend a pretty penny on this:
(http://images.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Studio-70s-Tribute/Gallery-Images/LP70GSCH1-Finish-Shot.jpg)
Now, I won't be posting any pictures of his until I start working on it, but for reference... ^^^^^
I'll just go ahead and make a simple list.
A. Fretwork - ABYSMAL. Uneven bevels. Poorly filed ends. Not polished to mirror shine. They all seem to be fairly level, I haven't gotten to set it up "as is," so we won't know until I do that. I noticed there is some sort of residue on several of them, it appeared to be rust at first, but I suspect it's just something that'll rub off. Not a huge deal.
B. Fretboard - The infamous TORRIFIED MAPLE. Honestly? It doesn't look half bad as a rosewood imposter, I can tell it's maple, and it's rather pale in comparison to a nice hunk of endangered tree. My issue here is that none of the edges are relieved in any way. They're quite literally SHARP. "Ow fuck, what was that?" sharp.
C. Finish - Nitro. Smells really, really, really good. That's pretty much the only upside to the finish. It isn't done poorly, but you can tell that isn't what it used to be. Paint overlay at the neck joint where the body meets the fretboard. The worst part about it, there is OBVIOUSLY a paint line where the fretboard meets the neck. A paint build up tape line. I could probably pick the nitro off with my fingernail at that point. It isn't feathered to be thinner, nothing. They peeled the tape and sent that motherfucker to the fret station. There is also some miniscule bubbling inside the cutout.
D. Sound - Acoustically? Sounds pretty damn great. It's loud, and resonant. Plugged in? Sounds like someone doesn't understand that grounding the guitar is 100% necessary. It's horrible. The pots aren't lubricated, the toggle switch is sloppy and the pickups lack all sorts of volume and OOMPH.
Overall? I'd buy an Agile... Shit, I'd buy two Agiles for the cost of this one Gibson.
Any questions?
How do you really feel? ;)
How does it compare to the Epiphone?
So quality control went from rock bottom to now bottoming out? Makes sense.
I won't be surprised if lawsuit Gibsons start shooting up more in price along with pre-2005 Gibsons on fleabay.
The Chinese made P90'd Epiphone SG is a GOOD guitar. It only needs a little bit of lovin' and a setup, and perhaps some tuners. Otherwise, I love it, and might buy one myself in a less diluted cum color. ;D ;D
Check out the shielding in there. Had a custom come through my mentor's shop than had none, not even paint.
Quote from: Mr. Foxen on June 13, 2012, 06:31:40 PM
Check out the shielding in there. Had a custom come through my mentor's shop than had none, not even paint.
... No shit? I'll be posting full tear-down pictures, ASAP.
It's a shame about those issues. I wont fault Deaner though, as there's something about those gibbys that no other brand has. I think Jake calls it, "the itch only a [real] paul can scratch". I wanted one about a year ago and tried a stnd/tradition pro (or whatever they called it) and it was really disappointing, albeit playable. I never got around to examining it real closely, but I wasn't impressed by it compared to its $2k price tag. The agile I ended up with for ~30% of the gibson's cost is really nice.
I dunno man - With all those issues, if I were Deaner I'd just slug back a glass of piss and fucking return it. Agile... Hagstrom... etc. Fuck it - he heard all that before.
Hardheaded and also bought it for an, ahem, discount...
I lucked out with mine. Pick ups are outstanding (burstbucker pros), pick up selector and knobs feel great, waxed pots. Finish is beautiful everywhere. It plays better and sounds better than my friends Hagstrom Swede. I was reluctant at first, due to what I heard, but from all the guitars I was trying out, I kept wanting to go back to the LP. Price tag was more than inviting compared to a used.
Quote from: johnny problem on June 13, 2012, 07:24:13 PM
I lucked out with mine. Pick ups are outstanding (burstbucker pros), pick up selector and knobs feel great, waxed pots. Finish is beautiful everywhere. It plays better and sounds better than my friends Hagstrom Swede. I was reluctant at first, due to what I heard, but from all the guitars I was trying out, I kept wanting to go back to the LP. Price tag was more than inviting compared to a used.
I'll take the Hag... :D
Yes, sunno, I sent back the sg standard. The fretbwork sucked. There was nothing sanded and all that shit was off-centered.
Are you serious about the Agile? That's a good guitar? I can't find an electric guild anywhere. Are they the new equivalent of a guild?
Quote from: franksnbeans on June 13, 2012, 09:26:05 PM
Yes, sunno, I sent back the sg standard. The fretbwork sucked. There was nothing sanded and all that shit was off-centered.
Are you serious about the Agile? That's a good guitar? I can't find an electric guild anywhere. Are they the new equivalent of a guild?
I've mentioned all this in other threads:
My agile is a 3000M, which is a slightly "nicer" model of the 3000 series (basically, thicker maple top). It was more expensive than other 3000 series but cheaper than my hag and came with a case. The hags not bad for the money, but the agile outplays it, has nicer hardware and pups/electronics, and better QC. Truth be told, I wish I hadn't bought the hag and dropped cash for a case and upgraded all the pups/electronics. The agile got it right straight from box without costing as much.
I don't play enough (or well enough) to justify a real gibby, but am more than pleased with the agile. Very nice for the money.
Guilds are gettin' kinda hard to find, these days. Yeah, Ben, the Agiles get my seal of approval. Look at the neckthru rootbeer one if they still have it. Gorgeous...
(http://www.rondomusic.net/photos/electric/al3010bbrthru5.jpg)
Thanks for posting that Jake. Good to know. When not playing my beloved Guild, I flip between a Hagstrom Ultra or Super Swede (not sure which), an Agile, and an early 90s "1960" Les Paul
Classic (all belonging to Pissy, because he has furnished me with guitars and amps off and on for 20 years :)
Anyway, that early 90s LP is fantastic. Much like my Guild, it damn near plays itself. If I can get the $ together, I'd like to buy it from him. The Hag is 2nd.. Good but not great. Something about it just doesn't quite click with me. The Agile just feels like a cheap guitar to me. I don't know what it is. If I was looking to spend $800-$1.5K on a LP style guitar, I'd probably look for an early 70s Guild Bluesbird first, but if most early 90s "classic" series Gibson LPs play like Pissy's, I'd be looking at those for sure. My two cents, based on my limited experience with them.
^^that is a beautiful picture though
Not-at-all-known fact, I bought my Guild because of your tone on Sea King.
Wow, those guilds are getting into the thousand+ zone, holy shit...
in gibson's defense, they are at least modrnizing their precision milling equipment etc. probably shit that ibanez has been doing for 20 years heh. like so how can ibanez crank out thousands of those shit RG's, yet everyone has a very precise neck. probably a $5million laser mill or w/e key mfg eqt is really what you need to do it right, that's how.
also, a good public shakeout is good for a somewhat rotting company. makes them accountable and fucks with their image. i also believe gibson needed at least one swift kick in the ass to get straight.
BUT, i also believe there are haters just due to the aura of gibson vs actually playing one and hating it.
(not talking about sunno, he evidently has a poor production piece there)
I like my studio. maybe it was from the day when they were made nice. i think late 90's was when i bought it. It plays great for me, but even it has issues.
A) It wasn't set up worth a shit when i got it. i grabbed it because the neck seemed truest, but the action was high and the strings did not all tune a perfect octave. i got that squared away myself after considerable dicking around.
B) Now all thepots/switches are fucking up
c) developing some buzzes
I like my 09 Agile spalted LP (AL 3200 iirc) copy better than my 06 Gibson LP DC standard.
What model is that goldtop w/ mini humbuckers? Some sort of Custom Shop LP Special reissue?
LP Studio '70s Tribute
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Studio-70s-Tribute.aspx?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Gibson%20Guitar%20Corp.&utm_content=Gibson+Product+Blast+20120531
My last new Gibson was about 8 years ago but when I bought it I tried about 20 other semi-hollows that day, mostly other Gibson's, and I saw many of the same the Sunn O))) mentioned. So many of the guitars had fret and nut issues that anyone that had been playing for even a year would instantly recognize as way off. I've picked up $5000 '59 Reissues and seen completely amateur nut jobs...slots that aren't deep enough, slots that are way too deep or where one is at a clearly wrong angle. They have trouble doing stuff that most companies can get right on their $100 guitars. My semi hollow, and many of the hollow and semi hollows were better than the average Gibson because they were made in a different factory but it still had nut issues and terrible pickups but I always replace those. I love a good Gibson but their quality control and workmanship is terrible lately regardless of price. It would be like buying a new Mercedes and immediately taking it to an independent mechanic for a tune up and replacement parts.
Good point about Ibanez. Years ago my friend picked up an amazing '70s Ibanez LP clone and the workmanship was top notch and recently I picked up a cheap Ibanez baritone and it plays great. The neck is awesome, it can sit for weeks and stay in tune (long scale guitars aren't my favorite). If Ibanez could be a real classic brand if they stopped changing their logo and headstock shape around. Also using a sub-brand name to release all of those shredder Vai and Satriani guitars would have helped.
I was never a PRS fan, but I got one of those SE One models which are pretty much a Les Paul Jr. clone and really like it. Mine is one of the older mahogany ones, which they don't make anymore, I modded it to add a tone pot.
prs's are very nice. years ago, GC had a wall of them and i played every one of them. if i had the cash, i would have bought one for sure. then i boiled down to either getting that studio LP which i did end up getting, or a used PRS. it was sweet, but it was purple and had a trace of fretwear.
i think many people rag on prs that have never picked one up. they are sleek sexy pieces of art for starters. there was not a clinker on that wall. they all played like a dream.
another underrated guitar brand is carvin. i was over at an ex-hs classmates' place last summer. he has a nice stable of guitars and amps. he still plays music. we will probably jam again soon ...anyway. i already told him, if there is a breakin and his carvin guit and fender twin reverb are gone...it was me lol
edit: that also was when they had the whole parker line in stock too. the carbon fly neck was amazing. the thing's sound just did not impress me tho. <--relate this to the adrian belew video where he does use one for its specific characteristics
Quote from: lordfinesse on June 13, 2012, 10:28:56 PM
Thanks for posting that Jake. Good to know. When not playing my beloved Guild, I flip between a Hagstrom Ultra or Super Swede (not sure which), an Agile, and an early 90s "1960" Les Paul
Classic (all belonging to Pissy, because he has furnished me with guitars and amps off and on for 20 years :)
Anyway, that early 90s LP is fantastic. Much like my Guild, it damn near plays itself. If I can get the $ together, I'd like to buy it from him. The Hag is 2nd.. Good but not great. Something about it just doesn't quite click with me. The Agile just feels like a cheap guitar to me. I don't know what it is. If I was looking to spend $800-$1.5K on a LP style guitar, I'd probably look for an early 70s Guild Bluesbird first, but if most early 90s "classic" series Gibson LPs play like Pissy's, I'd be looking at those for sure. My two cents, based on my limited experience with them.
That Hagstrom is a Swede, not a Super Swede. The reason i bought it was for the extra switch location on the lower 'bout. I knew that switch was only a mid/high cut, and the guitar sounded best when the switch was in the "do nothing" position. This allowed me the ability to remove it, and to move the pickup selector switch down there, so it was in a place where I wouldn't inadvertently hit it while strumming. A problem I have with all LP style guitars. The Super Swede doesn't have that switch.
Also, the Les Paul is just a straight up Standard, rather than a 1960, unless you've done some research and found something otherwise. I got it on trade from Lippy.
QuoteI got it on trade from Lippy.
Can I have it?
You'll need to generate the largest batch of roasted Hatch Green Chiles in existence, then add cash.
I think the problem with PRS is their association with creed and a bunch on nu-metal acts in the early 2000's. :D
I played one of the lower end models one time (may have been an se santana model). For the price, it was a fine guitar. Maybe not stellar but worth consideration.
The guitarist in my old band played one and it sounded great. He had gibbys and a bunch of other shit but always played the PRS.
Most of the PRS guitars I've seen have a GIGANTIC chunk of wood at the neck joint which was not comfortable in my hand.
Plainly seen here:
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/carderoni/004NeckJointInlays.jpg)
I am used to this:
(http://www.bcrich.com/images/glamour/mockingbird/xc/glam2_xcmock.jpg)
PRS always lacked something for me. I dunno... I like Bolt ons.
PRS is a victim of guilt by association. Too many nü metal bands and too many blues lawyers. The do make plenty of bolt on's by the way. I really like their single cuts if I was in the market for a factory built Les Paul style guitar.
Edit of the original...
The finish is NOT nitro. It is some whacky urethane. Still smells good.
Quote from: SunnO))) on June 15, 2012, 04:30:26 PM
Edit of the original...
The finish is NOT nitro. It is some whacky urethane. Still smells good.
What The Fuck? :'(
From Gibson's spec page:
Finish Sealer Nitrocellulose
Process 1-1.5 mils
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Studio-70s-Tribute/Specs.aspx
And in the description page: "To top it off, the Les Paul Studio '70s Tribute looks great in your choice of Vintage Sunburst, Cherry, Gold Top or Silver Burst finish, all in grain-textured satin nitrocellulose lacquer."
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Studio-70s-Tribute.aspx
Apparently it isnt even a lacquer, it's a urethane. Maybe the SEALER COAT is, but the paint is not.
Quote from: mutantcolors on June 15, 2012, 03:05:16 PM
Most of the * guitars I've seen have a GIGANTIC chunk of wood at the neck joint which was not comfortable in my hand.
I am used to this:
(http://www.bcrich.com/images/glamour/mockingbird/xc/glam2_xcmock.jpg)
Must be fun for the guitar salesman when you walk in. Not many guitars out there have a neck joint like that Mockingbird.
"Stratocaster?" giant chunk of wood at the neck joint. "SG? LP? Explorer? Telecaster? PRS? Rickenbacker? Jaguar? Thunderbird? Flying V? Ibanez? Yamaha? Hamer? Kramer? Yamaha? Gretch?" giant chunk of wood at the neck joint.
The PRS I have (The SE One) is one of the lower end ones, The SE series are made in Korea. I paid $299.00 for it used.
But it is a nice chunk of mahogany, not a bolt on, plays, sounds and feels great, it is a single cut with a single P-90.
only complaint was no tone control, just a single volume, but I put in a stacked fender J bass pot so I could have a tone control and so I wouldn't have to drill more holes and it works great.
All in all a pretty nice Les Paul Jr. clone, I'm happy with it.
They still make them, but only out of Korina now, I guess Mahogany got too expensive to put in guitars that cheap.
Eddie, how's the neck profile on your PRS? I remember them being chunky, in a good way.
Quote from: fallen on June 15, 2012, 07:15:01 PM
Quote from: mutantcolors on June 15, 2012, 03:05:16 PM
Most of the * guitars I've seen have a GIGANTIC chunk of wood at the neck joint which was not comfortable in my hand.
I am used to this:
(http://www.bcrich.com/images/glamour/mockingbird/xc/glam2_xcmock.jpg)
Must be fun for the guitar salesman when you walk in. Not many guitars out there have a neck joint like that Mockingbird.
"Stratocaster?" giant chunk of wood at the neck joint. "SG? LP? Explorer? Telecaster? PRS? Rickenbacker? Jaguar? Thunderbird? Flying V? Ibanez? Yamaha? Hamer? Kramer? Yamaha? Gretch?" giant chunk of wood at the neck joint.
That's part of why I play Mockingbirds.
Only other thing I fuck with is a Squire strat I got for $20, usually just for tracking solos. No salesman necessary.
(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2460/photo836.jpg)
They do look nice. My very first guitar was a BCRich "Platinum" strat shape and of course I put an EMG 81 in it right away.
I get a chuckle out of the price tag on the American made ones. 'bout $3000...both mine together ring in well under a grand. Easy to find used because folks sell 'em off when they first think they have neck dive. They do, just a little, and then balance out just below where any other guitar might sit. Took me all of 2 days to get used to.
Anyway, enough derail.
Quote from: Pissy on June 15, 2012, 07:42:15 AM
That Hagstrom is a Swede, not a Super Swede. The reason i bought it was for the extra switch location on the lower 'bout. I knew that switch was only a mid/high cut, and the guitar sounded best when the switch was in the "do nothing" position. This allowed me the ability to remove it, and to move the pickup selector switch down there, so it was in a place where I wouldn't inadvertently hit it while strumming. A problem I have with all LP style guitars. The Super Swede doesn't have that switch.
Also, the Les Paul is just a straight up Standard, rather than a 1960, unless you've done some research and found something otherwise. I got it on trade from Lippy.
Whatever Pissy. You come in here, all "settin the record straight".. You know what? I say that Hagstrom is an Ultra Mega Rocket Swede. That Les Paul? It's a 1960 Classic Lightning Hammer one off with a factory EMP installed. So there. ..
Whatever they are, they play great. Coincidentally, after my earlier post touting Guild Bluebirds, one popped up on Charlotte Craigslist. Looks great. Asking $1500. No mention of what year it is. Wish I could pick it up.
Quote from: clockwork green on June 15, 2012, 04:06:44 PM
PRS is a victim of guilt by association. Too many nü metal bands and too many blues lawyers. The do make plenty of bolt on's by the way. I really like their single cuts if I was in the market for a factory built Les Paul style guitar.
The PRSs that I've played have always seemed way too "smooth" and there doesn't seem any way of getting around that
With a good Paul I really like how it responds to what you put into it. If you play it cleanly and carefully it will sound nice and smooth, but if you really dig in hard there is lots of bite and snap and you can get a really jarring attack out of it. They can be sweet and civilised but they can also scratch and sting. With PRSs they seem to stay smooth and polite all the time, and there's no getting around it. I get the feeling the blues lawyer crowd gravitate towards them because they're really forgiving of poor right hand technique. For me though I find them unexpressive and boring to play.
The PRS that I most liked was one of the cheaper SEs that I played in a guitar shop a few years ago.
Quote from: SunnO))) on June 15, 2012, 05:42:08 PM
Apparently it isnt even a lacquer, it's a urethane. Maybe the SEALER COAT is, but the paint is not.
I've read that they have started using urethane clear to speed up the curing process because they need to fill orders for MF, GC and the like.
That describes the PRS I have perfectly the neck is chunky, but in that good way like a Les Paul is.
Also since it is pretty much the lowest end model they make, it is not all smooth and sterile, you gotta work it for good tones and you are rewarded well with your efforts.
My final take is I really like it, because it is a really nice low cost LP Jr. clone there's really no other way to describe it.
So Jake, any update on the Les Paul?