You got any advice? I'm in the market to buy a real gibson, but I hear the new ones aren't made very well.
That seems to be the consensus. The last LP stnd pro model I played did not justify the 2k price tag in the slightest.
That being said, I think Metal & Beer and The diddler will argue that good ones still exist if you spend the time to find them. If you can find 2 or 3 of the models you're after, try them out to see if they're worth the ticket.
In the UK we get absolute last pick of them that are exported, so its more like try a dozen, and still be better off importing one through an unofficial source.
Having bought a gibson from diddler I can safely say, yes good ones do exist. But for the pricetag I just don't get why they are regarded as the best to so many.
For used Gibsons, I'd say look from the late 80's through the 90's- haven't found too many from that timeframe with problems, and that's before they started the various weight relief stuff with LPs. Trucker- I think that one I sold you was a '98 maybe? Anyway- glad to hear you're still liking it.
For new Gibbys, if you got a local dealer that provides an adequate environment to really try out the guitar- at volume- great, go for that. Otherwise, and what I've done most recently, find an online dealer with a good return policy and preferrably one with hands on 'preview' of the specific instrument you're ordering. Wildwood guitars will do that shit- get the guitar and play the fucker over the phone for you and answer any questions.
IMHO, YMMV, FWIW, EMB
Well actually I sold it.. I just regret it that's why i still remember.
I wouldn't feel comfortable making a blanket statement: they're good or they're bad. Because really there's a lot of both out there in the marketplace.
My personal opinion is that when you look at their product line as a whole, often the instruments do not live up to their pricetag – so in a regard, that's bad. Is the Custom Shop Jeff Beck Oxblood Les Paul a good guitar? Probably. Likely even a great guitar. Is it worth the $17,000 Gibsons sells them for? I don't believe so. That may be an extreme example, but I think that the general premise holds true down the line.
But again, it's still very much a case-by-case basis situation.
Also, many modern Gibson manufacturing techniques have come under scrutiny. Feel free to add to this list...
• Swiss cheese weight relief
• PCB wiring harnesses
• Using primarily new-growth timber
• Not allowing the wood to dry / heavy, wet wood = Swiss cheese weight relief
• Baked maple fretboards (fuck that mess)
• Awful, awful fret dress
• Marketing unsprayed guitars as "Faded" / Unsprayed wood = very dry wood down the line
(http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/uploads/monthly_05_2010/post-1189-1273088219.jpg)
(http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/jonesy-albums-wiring-diagrams-picture11077-2008-pcb.jpg)
My guitarist got himself a new LP custom for some reason. It sounds good and plays good. He said the wiring was awful shit for an expensive guitar.
My main complaint as a previous Gibson owner is you are paying way too fucking much for the name. When I can get a SG Jr copy for $150 new that is better than a real SG Jr something is wrong.
I don't find that to be the case with Fender Guitars. They still care about quality at least a little bit.
I think I'll add that Agile and Hagstrom make much better Les Pauls for the money.
http://www.rondomusic.com/product4927.html
http://www.hagstromguitars.eu/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=89&category_id=8&Itemid=5
I'd love to get a nice Edwards, but they seem damn near impossible to find
I think most serious guitar players change out components first thing. Not many are happy with stock pups. that's why there's a huge aftermarket. So feeling compelled to change out pups and electronics is kind of an automatic for me. Even when I got my 78 Standard i changed out the pots and caps right away. Much smoother control though I did leave the bad ass unpotted T tops because they fuking rule. My issue is with the huge price tag. What you're paying for there is the advertising campaigns and not so much the product. But I've played 300 dollar Epis that I would've chosen over a 5k custom shop.
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2012, 01:54:35 PM
Also, many modern Gibson manufacturing techniques have come under scrutiny. Feel free to add to this list...
• Swiss cheese weight relief
• PCB wiring harnesses
• Using primarily new-growth timber
• Not allowing the wood to dry / heavy, wet wood = Swiss cheese weight relief
• Baked maple fretboards (fuck that mess)
• Awful, awful fret dress
• Marketing unsprayed guitars as "Faded" / Unsprayed wood = very dry wood down the line
(http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/uploads/monthly_05_2010/post-1189-1273088219.jpg)
(http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/jonesy-albums-wiring-diagrams-picture11077-2008-pcb.jpg)
No cavity shielding, which Epiphone somehow manage.
A 8 year period of time when they didn't actually connect the screen on the pickup wires to earth, so it didn't function.
Not scarf jointing necks like a properly made guitar, which used to be to save a days glueing time because wood was cheap, now they are just pissing wood that will be nice when it is done seasoning up the wall instead.
Finish cracks up round the logo on bunches of them.
Using illegal wood and trying to make excuses whilst every other manufacturer is getting on fine.
Misplaced bridges
Credit to them for trying new things sometimes.
Quote from: Mr. Foxen on April 26, 2012, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2012, 01:54:35 PM
Also, many modern Gibson manufacturing techniques have come under scrutiny. Feel free to add to this list...
• Swiss cheese weight relief
• PCB wiring harnesses
• Using primarily new-growth timber
• Not allowing the wood to dry / heavy, wet wood = Swiss cheese weight relief
• Baked maple fretboards (fuck that mess)
• Awful, awful fret dress
• Marketing unsprayed guitars as "Faded" / Unsprayed wood = very dry wood down the line
(http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/uploads/monthly_05_2010/post-1189-1273088219.jpg)
(http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/jonesy-albums-wiring-diagrams-picture11077-2008-pcb.jpg)
No cavity shielding, which Epiphone somehow manage.
A 8 year period of time when they didn't actually connect the screen on the pickup wires to earth, so it didn't function.
Not scarf jointing necks like a properly made guitar, which used to be to save a days glueing time because wood was cheap, now they are just pissing wood that will be nice when it is done seasoning up the wall instead.
Finish cracks up round the logo on bunches of them.
Using illegal wood and trying to make excuses whilst every other manufacturer is getting on fine.
Misplaced bridges
Credit to them for trying new things sometimes. Credit also for not being as massive cunts as RIC.
Wi not trei a holiday in Sweeden this yer ?
Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 26, 2012, 05:08:55 PM
So after all this, what's the reason to buy a Gibson vs. $210 Guitar Fetish or $150 Rondo? ???
Resale value.
Quote from: Discö Rice on April 26, 2012, 03:29:07 PM
I think I'll add that Agile and Hagstrom make much better Les Pauls for the money.
http://www.rondomusic.com/product4927.html
http://www.hagstromguitars.eu/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=89&category_id=8&Itemid=5
I own both and will agree.
Quote from: the diddler on April 26, 2012, 03:34:52 PM
I'd love to get a nice Edwards, but they seem damn near impossible to find
I almost went this route but accessibility is like non existent. If not ebay, try the Japanese pro shop or possibly contact the US hq/distributors.
Quote from: RacerX on April 26, 2012, 05:11:10 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 26, 2012, 05:08:55 PM
So after all this, what's the reason to buy a Gibson vs. $210 Guitar Fetish or $150 Rondo? ???
Resale value.
Nail meet head.
I have a shitload of guitars. None of them have any resale value. My tele and Guild, maybe, but that's it.
It doesnt matter if you're a player, but blues lawyers love resale value.
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QuoteIt doesnt matter if you're rich or if you never intend to sell the guitar, but gear-flippers love resale value.
fixed.
There's something about a Les Paul that scratches an itch other guitars cannot.
I suspect it's growing up and having your musical landscape shaped by people like Jimmy Page, Joe Walsh, Billy Gibbons, Duane Allman, Steve Jones, Slash, etc., etc. with a Les Paul.
See the loveli lakes
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2012, 05:50:04 PM
There's something about a Les Paul that scratches an itch other guitars cannot.
I suspect it's growing up and having your musical landscape shaped by people like Jimmy Page, Joe Walsh, Billy Gibbons, Duane Allman, Steve Jones, Slash, etc., etc. with a Les Paul.
Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 26, 2012, 05:53:00 PM
That's about as smart as my bro-in-law that collects Star Wars figures as an investment.
Guitar is a tool, get the most economical one that gets the job done right, if you overpay, then you become the tool. If you drop, scratch or wear your investment you just dumped a pile of money.
See, I don't think of a guitar as just a tool. In a
purely deconstructive utilitarian way, maybe. But there's a lot more to it than that. There's a large emotional component to guitars for many people. Very much in the way that art, fashion, automobiles, etc. can be for some people.
You're lucky that you don't seem to harbor that gene. If unchecked, it can be a cost-absorbing pursuit.
But I think calling someone a tool who does not strictly choose a guitar based on what the pricetag does or doesn't say is going too far.
The wonderful telephone system
Insecurity? Perhaps. Or maybe just because they really like certain guitars. I'm not going to fault someone for choosing to drive a '66 GTO instead of whatever Consumer Reports says is the most cost efficient mode of personal transportation.
Why? Because GTOs are badass. It's hard to quantify why I think that. I don't think it's insecurity. I just like them.
And some people feel the same way about guitars.
/threadjack
This argument has been on my mind for a while now.
I personally hate PLAYING Les Pauls, Gibson or Epiphone. I love the looks of them however and sometimes wish that I did like them because the look so badass and sound great. I do however love myself the SG. I own an Epiphone Worn brown SG. Its about 5 years old now and has played every show I have done in that time period, every practice, and every recording. I think this guitar is like an extension of my soul. I will never sell it, trade it, burn it, or give it away. All other guitars that i have bought since have yet to compare (although my blacktop Tele is getting close).
I have always wanted a Gibson SG and have been looking for a decently priced one. I have yet to find one even close to a good price , new or used. With all of the talk of Gibson putting out shitty instruments I dont know that I would pay the money for a new one even if i had it. I still look but I never go by the looks alone anymore( a mistake i have made WAY too many times). I think that Gibson probably still makes good instruments but its a matter of trial and error, meaning you gotta play the shit outta one BEFORE you buy it.
That said, why settle for the hot chic's frumpy friend that cooks better, screws more and will support you when you can have the hot chic and brag to your buddies!
Quote from: bitter on April 26, 2012, 05:53:51 PM
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2012, 05:50:04 PM
There's something about a Les Paul that scratches an itch other guitars cannot.
I suspect it's growing up and having your musical landscape shaped by people like Jimmy Page, Joe Walsh, Billy Gibbons, Duane Allman, Steve Jones, Slash, etc., etc. with a Les Paul.
^^^ I agree 100%! Its like having a Marshall full stack which is every kids dream who looked up to those kind of players....well at least it was my dream. Buying myself a Les Paul was up there too until I discovered how uncomfortable it was to play!
And mani interesting furry animals
QuoteAccording to the rest of this thread Gibson isn't built better, doesn't sound better, and doesn't play better than the $200 guitar.
Did you read this thread? Because I don't see where that's in it.
Including the majestic moose
I guess it just depends what's more important - the fact that the headstock says Gibson or the actual functionality of the instrument, and to that point I'd add that if the Gibson logo makes you more likely to pick it up and play the shit out of it, that's the instrument for you.
A moose once bit my sister...
Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 26, 2012, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: RacerX on April 26, 2012, 08:01:05 PM
QuoteAccording to the rest of this thread Gibson isn't built better, doesn't sound better, and doesn't play better than the $200 guitar.
Did you read this thread? Because I don't see where that's in it.
So search around you might find a good one? Same can be said for a Squier, Teisco or Rogue, havent seen one of them go for $2000 yet.
Herb, a Teisco Spectrum 5 goes for $2,400-$5,000. You're also a hell of a lot more likely to find a nice Gibson than you are a usable Rogue.
Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 26, 2012, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: RacerX on April 26, 2012, 08:01:05 PM
QuoteAccording to the rest of this thread Gibson isn't built better, doesn't sound better, and doesn't play better than the $200 guitar.
Did you read this thread? Because I don't see where that's in it.
So search around you might find a good one? Same can be said for a Squier, Teisco or Rogue, havent seen one of them go for $2000 yet.
I didn't type that, either.
I'm just pointing out that your claim that the rest of the thread makes certain claims appears to be FALSE.
*shrugs*
I play used guitars.
No realli! She was Karving her initials on the moose with the sharpened end of an interspace toothbrush given her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian movies: "The Hot Hands of an Oslo Dentist","Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Molars of Horst Nordfink"...
Now you're changing your claim. Whatever, dude.
Mynd you, moose bites Kan be pretti nasti...
You bitches is crazy.
Quote from: Discö Rice on April 26, 2012, 08:04:38 PM
the fact that the headstock says Gibson or the actual functionality of the instrument, and to that point I'd add that if the Gibson logo makes you more likely to pick it up and play the shit out of it, that's the instrument for you.
Only works if the headstock is attached. Not strong point for Gibsons.
Yeah sorry, it's my DIY ethic, makes me yell at people spending stupid money.
I remember two rigs, from all the bands I've worked with. One was a guy using an old beat to shit Vox head, and a 4x12 with no grille cloth, so he put those round meshes over each driver, then painted the whole rig camo. The othe was a guitarist playing a solid state Ampeg B rackmount bass amp, through a Behringer 4x12 and a no name 4x12. These were both guys that made their gear work for them.
Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 26, 2012, 08:27:04 PM
Quote from: RacerX on April 26, 2012, 08:23:30 PM
Now you're changing your claim. Whatever, dude.
I'm afraid you'll have to explain that to me, dude.
QuoteAccording to the rest of this thread Gibson isn't built better, doesn't sound better, and doesn't play better than the $200 guitar.
40 SPECIALLY TRAINED ECUADORAN MOUNTAIN LLAMAS
6 VENEZUELAN RED LLAMAS
142 MEXICAN WHOOPING LLAMAS
14 NORTH CHILEAN GUANACOS (CLOSELY RELATED TO THE LLAMA)
REG LLAMA OF BRIXTON
76000 BATTERY LLAMAS FROM "LLAMA-FRESH" FARMS LTD. NEAR PARAGUAY
So, Im an idiot for buying my Model T, instead of modding a bassman? Or the Sonaro instead of modding a Dynaco stereo?
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
Quote from: SunnO))) on April 26, 2012, 08:40:59 PM
So, Im an idiot for buying my Model T, instead of modding a bassman? Or the Sonaro instead of modding a Dynaco stereo?
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
Nah, you're an idiot for a lot more than that ;D
Was the T better than a bassman, and did you pay $2000 for it?
I love it and paid a bundle for it.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
I want to put an Apple™ sticker on my Gibson™.
Should I be ascared aboot ruining the finish?
Quote from: Discö Rice on April 26, 2012, 08:28:00 PMYou bitches is curmudgeonly.
Fixed
OT:
The cost cutter on my Gibby LP Studio Vintage Mahogany (bought new circa '07) is wiring. Pickup switch is shorting out. Too lazy / ig'nant to fix. Possibly due to a PCB harness, IDK as I've never even opened 'er up to see.
I bought it because I played it and really liked it, and I still really do. It doesn't have a maple cap, so it's lighter weight and sounds different than other traditional LP's. It has a finish that may qualify as the "shitty" faded type but I don't give two shits because I like it.
Try it, like it?, buy it. Regardless of make or model. Interested in LPs? Try a couple. Avoid online purchases, unless you can return it and try another / get a refund if you don't like.
/$0.02 given
Can't compare amps and guitars so easily, amps are complicated to make, electric guitars are crude as fuck planks. Nothing in one that is especially hard to make, hence cheap guitars being pretty much the same as expensive ones. Even Dunwich has to buy in transformers and shiz, and they cost more than you can pick up whole reasonable name amps for s/h.
Oh yeah, and pickup selector switches are always shitty, and its hard to do anything about it. I've seen some gold plated ones that don't glitch when you switch, but dunno if it will last.
Quote from: I,Galactus on April 26, 2012, 08:53:31 PM
Quote from: Discö Rice on April 26, 2012, 08:28:00 PMYou bitches is curmudgeonly.
Totally own up to that, in fact it used to be my sig, 'til I went all hi-tech ;)
Switches aren't too expensive, and those leaf style ones do break a fair bit, don't be scared to get it fixed.
This thread delivers! I love it when y'alls jam room cycles sync up. ;) :-*
(http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://cdn.thegrindstone.com/files/2011/08/menstruation-300x225.jpg&sa=X&ei=cveZT_iFEoKa2gW9vpniDg&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNFBYs1gSo3CPHkGgXZerBARTXrPFA)
I think gibsons are fag guitars.
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Who wants to talk about reliced guitars?
Quote from: SunnO))) on April 26, 2012, 09:43:16 PM
I think gibsons are fag guitars.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
i KNOW they are. why else would i have so many?
I had A Fender roadworn tele that made me feel like such a douchebag. I sold it.
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But you sell everything. Who are you kidding?
Is no-one going to answer the guys question about finish?
alright, I was thinking of getting a flying v, but you all almost convinced me not to. Gibsons all have the same homo-douchebaggy tone anyhow. Those hagstrom guitars look pretty cool and they're a good price.
Are there any other good options?
I dont sell EVERYTHING.
What finish question?
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Hagstrom rhymes with FAGstrom. Jussssaynnng
There seems to be a leap in logic somewhere along the way.
I said that there are absolutely some good Gibsons out there. Soup to nuts, good guitars. But, I qualified my answer by saying there's definitely some stinkers out there, they've strayed from more traditional woods and techniques, and they are not cheap.
And I really don't think any sound homo-douchebaggy. Unless you plug into the new amplifier, the Douchebaggy™ by Homo.
Quote from: Jor el on April 26, 2012, 08:52:06 PM
I want to put an Apple™ sticker on my Gibson™.
Should I be ascared aboot ruining the finish?
Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 26, 2012, 10:09:19 PM
Is no-one going to answer the guys question about finish?
*sigh*
fine.
Relicing new guitars to replicate play wear that wasn't actually caused by play or wear is the weakest of all possible sauces.
Relicing guitars to make them look awesome is awesome. Example before & after.
(http://www.brazenguitars.com/grafx/guitars/dynasty_standard_med.jpg)
(http://ilovefuzz.com/download/file.php?id=10181&mode=view)
Happy now?
^^^^^^^^
please explain....cause that looks killer.
Quote from: kirky on April 26, 2012, 10:31:00 PM
^^^^^^^^
please explain....cause that looks killer.
http://ilovefuzz.com/viewtopic.php?f=188&t=24979&hilit=elwood+content (http://ilovefuzz.com/viewtopic.php?f=188&t=24979&hilit=elwood+content)
Don't know much about it as I lurk moar @ yon ILF. Apparently username Masked Elwood is responsible for that badassery and it's Detroit inspired.
*edit for link fix
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2012, 10:18:01 PM
And I really don't think any sound homo-douchebaggy. Unless you plug into the new amplifier, the Douchebaggy™ by Homo.
Google that, you get this.
(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4899/guitar2no9.jpg)
Fuck all you haters. This ma #1. Best guitar I've played to date and I own it. True love
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee74/spicoli420_2007/IMG_3057.jpg)
Sweet fag guitar, Rager!
The Gibson LP's I have played,play nicer and sound better than almost any stock derivative. The good ones have even more than those will ever have. But if you're going to spend 2k on a guitar be sure to test drive a whole bunch of the fuckers.
Quote from: Mr. Foxen on April 26, 2012, 04:16:08 PM
Misplaced bridges
I know a guy who had that, it was a custom shop, too. The dude who looked at it was able to spin the bridge around which restored order to the universe. Fuckin shit thing to happen on an expensive guitar. Same guy had manufacture issues with a tuning peg on a 12 string Ric, so it ain't just Gibson.
Quote from: Hemisaurus on April 26, 2012, 08:03:41 PM
Including the majestic moose
I'm still rocking both my Gibson SG and my Maison Les Paul. I love how the Maison cost me more, hahaha.
Quote from: Jake on April 26, 2012, 10:18:01 PM
they've strayed from more traditional woods and techniques, and they are not cheap.
Not so much straying from trad woods an technique, but sticking with them an missing all of the point. Keeping using woo when you can't get quality woo, and chambering it to make up for the deficiency, and still not sorting their headstocks out is sticking with tradition but making a shittier product because of it.
Quote from: Ayek on April 27, 2012, 01:18:17 AM
Same guy had manufacture issues with a tuning peg on a 12 string Ric, so it ain't just Gibson.
RIC are worse. Tech mentor has one on the bench to have its truss rods out and was asking if I could sort videoing it to show how they are done wrong. Fender get it right, when someone starts making awesome upgrade parts, they buy them and fit them to some models (Highway ones with Badass bridges, various Dimarzio loaded, sig models etc.), RIC just threaten legal action for people making things in a compatible shape.
You mean "fag of hammers".
If the lesbo bassist plays a fag guitar, do the competing gay vibes cancel each other out, or multiply exponentially?
Quote from: the diddler on April 27, 2012, 12:02:09 PM
If the lesbo bassist plays a fag guitar, do the competing gay vibes cancel each other out, or multiply exponentially?
Results in a bass cut effect, that's all.
Quote from: RAGER on April 27, 2012, 11:27:27 AM
Quote from: franksnbeans on April 26, 2012, 11:59:43 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on April 26, 2012, 11:06:01 PM
Sweet fag guitar, Rager!
you mean Fag-er
what the fuck does that even mean?
You=bag of hammers
It sounds like you use all of the strings.
You got some Big pants to go with that?
Quote from: Discö Rice on April 27, 2012, 12:05:07 PM
Quote from: the diddler on April 27, 2012, 12:02:09 PM
If the lesbo bassist plays a fag guitar, do the competing gay vibes cancel each other out, or multiply exponentially?
Results in a bass cut effect, that's all.
Which is gay to the power of gay.
Just to remind you, in the UK this is a fag guitar.
(http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Music/Pix/pictures/2008/07/30/clapton460.jpg)
^Heh heh, indeed sir! I have a 78 strat and it has a fag burn on the neck there!
Back when I lived in Glasgow, 02-08, I played a few new SGs and from 04/05 onwards often found the specials nicer to play than the standard ???
A friend of a friend bought a new SG standard in 2004 and it was an utter dog compared to my 96 SG standard. The frets were poorly finished off as mentioned earlier and it didn't have the same sustain as mine, which I guess was poor wood as the guy spent way more on strings than I did!
Guy I know who works as a session guitarist in Nashville told me he preferred his Dusenberg ricki copy of a 330 to to an actual Ricki, was a few years ago he told me that though.
Im partial to copies, something about being able to hurt them in ways you wouldnt want to hurt a pricey instrument.
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I have this.......
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/328146_10150855264075707_626225706_20987765_467109868_o.jpg)
As much as I love the look of it........ it does not compare in any way to my FSR strat I got (1 of 25 for canada only YAY) The electronics are terrible as far as I am concerned but I have not got around to changing out the parts, want to go with a p90 based pickup (I also have a 60's tribute les paul that is great).. Either way this was my most expensive guitar and well... it looks pretty haha.
Fender FSR for good measure
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/45107_10150236420745707_626225706_14337748_8313026_n.jpg)
So what about this one?
http://springfieldil.craigslist.org/msg/2968142737.html (http://springfieldil.craigslist.org/msg/2968142737.html)
He IS wearing big pants, if you check the photos.
Is this some Florida code ???
I like the Epi LPC's a lot, but that jive turkey be smooth-up trippin'...
Sock & sandals!
Man, why even fuck with the JP Junior? Same string spacing/wider neck? Zero Fret? Automatic tuning system?
WHY?
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2015/Les-Paul-Junior.aspx
Stupid.
*spits on ground*
Fag Guitar
Heh
Then neither of you broke dicks should buy one. Solved.
i'm a gibson lover; sg and les paul respectively.
i got a 13' sg-
(http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l629/iambetacloud/Image03262014145755.jpg) (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/iambetacloud/media/Image03262014145755.jpg.html)
gorgeous fretboard, excellent neck.
a 13' les paul, and 06' sg-
(http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l629/iambetacloud/Image08112013180321.jpg) (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/iambetacloud/media/Image08112013180321.jpg.html)
and a 78 LP-
(http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l629/iambetacloud/78lespaul.jpg) (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/iambetacloud/media/78lespaul.jpg.html)
as far as the new ones gotta' say that the 2014 gibsons i played were 'ok', but not worth the cash.
i played a sg standard, les paul standard, and les paul traditional.
my qualms with new gibsons...
1. they're eliminating the fretboard 'nibs' from some models. bullshit.
been feeling em' up them like nipple hardies since forever. super bullshit.
2. the horrific anniversary inlay.
(http://plug-in.bestbuy.ca/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/18814i021902CA36144B52/image-size/medium?v=mpbl-1&px=-1)
why the fuck would someone do this to a guitar?
3. the ever exponentiating price of new gibson guitars.
i suggest you buy a used one; 2013 or older. plenty out there.
*also*
i think that most gibsons are better than epiphone, esp ltd, 'place mass producer here'.
my words.
oh the 120th inlay is a million times better then the new signature on the headstock 2015's (with a huge price increase as well)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/tattooedcarrot/Gear/Misc%20Gear/IMG_2691_zps49c258ee.jpg~original)
Holy Jesus
It looks like Pacman is eating aul.
(http://www.troll.me/images/futurama-fry/if-that-is-legit-we-must-kill-it-with-fire.jpg)
Quote from: heytrid on February 13, 2015, 01:34:45 AM
oh the 120th inlay is a million times better then the new signature on the headstock 2015's (with a huge price increase as well)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/tattooedcarrot/Gear/Misc%20Gear/IMG_2691_zps49c258ee.jpg~original)
Yeah, that's on the one I posted. Hideous.
I think it's bizarre to have to update the firmware on one's guitar. ESPECIALLY a meat & potatoes model, like the Junior. Probably best to save those features for things like the Firebird X (if they still make those).
Gibson still puts out some georgeous, well-appointed, and expertly built instruments. Just that those ones are the price of a nice used car.
In summation, fuck them.
Zero frets used to be a cheap guitar thing so the nut didn't have to be filed perfectly. Love how Gibson spins (in a marketing sense) theirs to make it seem like something awesome. Seems like there will be a lot of them on closeout for cheap before too long.
It's gotta be tough to work for gibson corporate. From a customer standpoint, I don't know of many people that like Gibsons (which is a lot) that want them to innovate. All they want is the same things the been producing for decades in simple form. This doesn't take product innovation. It takes manufacturing innovation. Whoever dreamed up the Les Paul grease pen logo didn't get that idea from a fan of the guitars. No one thought the les paul signature on the head stock needed updating.
No one asked for a zero fret.
No one asked for robotic tuners ten years ago.
No one asked for anniversary inlay.
Maybe people asked for a lighter les paul, leading to a chambered body.
They did ask for the holy grail burst as true to form as it could be.
They did ask for the flagship models to be more affordable.
Its got to be tough to compete with the used market being more desirable than the new market. In competition with themselves from ten years ago. Leading them to 'continuously improve' while making the whole product line suck in the process.
The only way they can beat the used market is to kill it. The only way to do that is to make a better guitar offered for less than current used prices.
What pissy said.
I'd never buy a gibby new. I'd just as soon buy an Agile, or even an ESP Viper or whatever the LP is called. Then all the tokais, burneys, etc floating around. I'd be happy to pay Gibson, if the guitars were priced reasonably for the quality... But until they can put a guitar in my hands for Mexican Fender money, with Squire CV quality, They can go pound sand.
What Pissy said +2
Even the folks at Guitar Center quietly admit that they are just not worth the price.
First post here...gotta say, the User Agreement was funny to read after all the fagginness in this thread ;D
I have a Gibson Melody Maker reissue. Bought new in '04, whacked a hole in it and put a Duncan Custom SH5 in place of the P90.
Absolutely fantastic playing and sounding guitar. Bridge pickup only, I'd put it up against anything. Play various forms of metal, punk, etc. Even does remarkable cleans. Played this in The Seeds, annd it did that well, too, even though the P90 would cleary be a better genre fit.
The faded finishes aren't unlike the semigloss-over-unfinished-wood that made my Gibson cheap ennough to make an Epi/Agile guy sick: 379, out the door with a good gig bag. No "never got to use my GC employee's discount' story? Still 399 & tax.
There's nothing wrong with the finish unless you want something pretty and expensive for your law firm office.
A guitar drying out faster because of it? Huh? The lack of a clearcoat or grain filler doesn't mean it isn't sealed. They'll outgas at roughly the same rate. And I've yet to hear anyone pining for *wetter* wood in their guitar.
This was done for one reason: reduce labor costs. Instead of cheapening the materials, take loads of hand labor out by skipping the wetsanding/polishing a gloss finish requires.
I know plenty about it - did auto body for a few years.
The MIC, MII, MIM stuff is cheaper with a gloss finish - because they don't pay their workers US wages. I hope Joyo, Artec, etc aren't giving us inexpensive products via suicide netted factories.
That said, the newer '15 stuff is baffling. I could see the zero nut on a niche model, but the whole line?
Fugly logo.
Why replace a tone pot with a toggle switch for coil splitting?
I actually dig the robo tuners. But again, every guitar, including the ones aimed at vintage geeks?
Still? My flametop G400 Deluxe is probably the first Epi to twist my tits like it's American cousin. Flat out fucking great - especially for 199 used with a case.
If you want a Les Paul though...I think it's much the same as the relationship between Chevy's Camaro and Corvette. The former detuned to not threaten the latter's sales. Similarly the Epi LPs have never done it for me once I grokked the goodness of a Gibby. The other models just aren't as iconic...while many agree with me about Epi LPs, I've always heard good things about the G400.
Playing? Buy used. My MM always sounded good unplugged - since I hate noise gates, the 90 wasn't staying long on my new #1, so I auditioned it in the acoustic room. Hot tip for pickup swap addicts.
Plus, Page's LP being so iconic in the Vintage realm...58-70 = 12 years. So IMO a decent guitar of at least that age is going to give you the drier wood you're looking for. Buying new..
especially now...just read the longing in the automotive press about BMW and Honda's declines. Gibson's history isn't the only one looking best in a rear view mirror...
Oh yeah...last thing, I swear...
You think USA Gibsons are an overpriced ripoff? Try Fender.
Case in point: the Fender© Kurt Cobain Signature Jaguar.
WRONG pickups - just like the Jag-Stang!
$1399.
Made. In. China.
I'll take a Faded Flying V, thanks...
Quote from: Discö Rice on April 26, 2012, 03:29:07 PM
I think I'll add that Agile and Hagstrom make much better Les Pauls for the money.
http://www.rondomusic.com/product4927.html
http://www.hagstromguitars.eu/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=89&category_id=8&Itemid=5
mmmm Hagstrom, interesting... What about this model? I know the pickguard looks weird but the cream finish is quite beautiful:
http://www.hagstromguitars.eu/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=2119&category_id=15&Itemid=7
Is the Duncan SH5 the Custom 5?
That's a real nice pickup
Standard O.G. ceramic.
I tend to like ceramic pickups. The Duncan Distortion, EMG 81, GFS Bigmouth...big/tight bottom, clear, all the output you could want.
Alnico is cool too, but I ain't allergic to ferrite.
The HB103 Duncan Designed are cool too. Basically a "Distortion Lite" (single thickness) with a ceramic Jazz neck. Really good flavors both.
Been researching pickups lately...can you tell? ;-)
You should try the Custom 5 if you can get your hands on one. Alnico 5 magnet.
Plenty of horsepower, but more like a PAF in the midst of full-on 'roid rage. Very nice/smooth volume roll-off as well.
Also a big fan of the Rio Grande BBQ. Probably also Alnico 5 magnet. Made my Les Paul sound even more like a Les Paul if that makes sense.
Un potted T tops ftw!
Quote from: Stonergrunge on March 03, 2015, 09:26:48 AM
Quote from: Discö Rice on April 26, 2012, 03:29:07 PM
I think I'll add that Agile and Hagstrom make much better Les Pauls for the money.
http://www.rondomusic.com/product4927.html
http://www.hagstromguitars.eu/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=89&category_id=8&Itemid=5
mmmm Hagstrom, interesting... What about this model? I know the pickguard looks weird but the cream finish is quite beautiful:
http://www.hagstromguitars.eu/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=2119&category_id=15&Itemid=7
Back when I bought my Hagstrom I looked at a few in a music store in Olympia WA. The upper end of the line seemed good quality, the lower end not so much. Specifically the guitars without neck binding seemed to be the line of demarcation. This has been ten years ago, so who knows if things are different now, but I remember thinking that if I ordered one of the lower end guitars on-line without having picked one up, that I'd be disappointed.
I ended up buying a goldtop Swede. There are a few things that I think could have been done better, but overall its a good guitar, for the ~$500 I spent on it with a hardshell case. An additional bonus to buying one the way I did vs. getting a B-Stock off of that auction site, was I was able to register it and get support at one point. That was a good experience btw. very responsive.
The discontinued models D2H and D2F were really good guitars and picking one up, reminded me a lot of my '77 SG. A lot.
I'm not nearly as impressed with my Super Swede as I am with my Agile. The hag's initial cost was higher and needed the electronics upgraded.
And likely the nut.
My Agile is a smokin' hot thing too, but I never really bonded with it. Maybe I should.
I've been considering one of these:
(http://www.sheltonsguitars.com/images/2012/05-18-2012/gibson-les-paul-3-pu-gow/big/bigDSCN1521.jpg)
http://www.gibson.com/jp-jp/Divisions/Gibson%20USA/Guitar%20of%20the%20Week/LP-Classic-Custom-Week42/
I always wanted a LP and now they have this baby at my local shop. It's NOS (or whatever), been sitting 10 years in storage. I've tried it out a few times and it's a great guitar.
Now that's a nice fucking LP.
Beautiful.
3 Super Distortions? Day-um!!!
Dat Paul...
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/emsttrs1.gif)
Quote from: Volume on March 06, 2015, 09:17:29 AM
I've been considering one of these:
(http://www.sheltonsguitars.com/images/2012/05-18-2012/gibson-les-paul-3-pu-gow/big/bigDSCN1521.jpg)
http://www.gibson.com/jp-jp/Divisions/Gibson%20USA/Guitar%20of%20the%20Week/LP-Classic-Custom-Week42/
I always wanted a LP and now they have this baby at my local shop. It's NOS (or whatever), been sitting 10 years in storage. I've tried it out a few times and it's a great guitar.
That is a gottdam beautiful guitar
buy that fucker.
yeah..get that.
I've found a middle pickup humbucker guitar hard to play. The pick always bottoms out on the pickup for me. I had that Guild S-50 that I got from Apekillman, and it was hard to sell for this reason. Not the reason I wanted to sell it, mind you, but more than one person that looked at it mentioned this.
Quote from: VOLVO))) on February 15, 2015, 03:32:56 PM
What pissy said.
I'd never buy a gibby new. I'd just as soon buy an Agile, or even an ESP Viper or whatever the LP is called. Then all the tokais, burneys, etc floating around. I'd be happy to pay Gibson, if the guitars were priced reasonably for the quality... But until they can put a guitar in my hands for Mexican Fender money, with Squire CV quality, They can go pound sand.
The problem is even those lawsuit guitars are now fetching over a grand. Seen a few Burny's and Orville's in ok shape going for the same price as an LP classic from '02.
I don't see the problem people have with Gibson's prices.
The only company I can think of that didn't ho out their name to imported goods besides them is Carvin. And Carvin makes a great guitar...for certain players. Don't like em myself. Build quality sure...feel? Nah.
Gibson = Made in USA. Their line starts at $599 - MIM Fender territory, and MII, MIC, MIK too.
Show me one sub $1000 USA Fender.
Because I can go to pretty much any GC and be able to walk out with my choice of SG, V, or LP body styles, MMs & Juniors too.
I could make you a strat body in any woodshop. Carving and LP's top or setting a neck? Much more difficult = more $$$.
I just picked up an SX SJB75 J bass in appropriate spec (ash, block/bound neck, etc) for $130. Squier CV? $180. Try getting an Epi Tbird Pro used for under $300.
And really? If you'll buy import copies but won't pony up for a Gibby, that's what Epi is for. Live my flametop G400.
People don't foam at the mouthat Sterling/EBMM for selling $8-900 Made In Indonesia instruments. Again, Tbird Pro-IV, $499, laminated thruneck...vs a simple bolt on plain maple neck and one pickup vs two, same country of origin...the sumpler easier CHEAPER instrument is nearly twice ad much. ??!!
Again, Fender is testing the waters with Chinese made Fender branded instruments pushing $1500. They have zero US made instruments under a G. Gibson has a full line...EBMM doesn't either, Heritage, G&L, all basically say "call us when you're spending four figures."
Suhr sells hot rodded Fender design basses for $4000. Pensa-Suhrs were literally built by Warmoth, but finished and assembled by their shop.
And on and on. I don't think Gibson sucks much more than other corporations, and I still like most of their instruments. Just can't afford another one...but I can't afford a Corvette, either, so I guess I should start a GM hate thread. ;-)
Seems like you're keeping the conversation about Gibson's pricing exclusively to their entry-level models, which I find misleading.
Let's take a look at something like a Les Paul Standard, which is historically their (upper?) mid-level instrument.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/gibson-les-paul-standard#pageName=collection-page&N=300066&Nao=0&recsPerPage=20&v=g&Ns=pLH&profileCountryCode=US&profileCurrencyCode=USD (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/gibson-les-paul-standard#pageName=collection-page&N=300066&Nao=0&recsPerPage=20&v=g&Ns=pLH&profileCountryCode=US&profileCurrencyCode=USD)
And just for shits and gigs, let's see what a Custom will run you these days:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/gibson-les-paul-custom#pageName=collection-page&N=300065+200835&Nao=0&recsPerPage=20&v=g&Ns=pLH&profileCountryCode=US&profileCurrencyCode=USD (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/gibson-les-paul-custom#pageName=collection-page&N=300065+200835&Nao=0&recsPerPage=20&v=g&Ns=pLH&profileCountryCode=US&profileCurrencyCode=USD)
I'm not even going to link anything from the Custom Shop, because I don't want to offend anyone's sensibilities.
Thanks for posting those links Jake. I didn't realize how long it had been since I actually looked at new Gibson guitars in a catalog or website. Holy shit they're pricey these days.
If I had $3500-$4000 dollars to drop on a guitar, it would probably not be on a new Gibson (although I admit I haven't put my hands on one... maybe it's the greatest thing ever?). If it had to be spent on Gibsons, I would probably try to find 2 really nice 1990-era Les Pauls.
Quote from: CID Vicious on March 15, 2015, 01:51:58 PM
Show me one sub $1000 USA Fender.
1) http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-FEN-0115602-357?src=Y0802G00SRCHCAPN&gclid=CN34sIytssQCFYU-aQodt1MA7g
2) http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-FEN-0115602-357?src=Y0802G00SRCHCAPN&gclid=CN34sIytssQCFYU-aQodt1MA7g
Quote from: lordfinesse on March 18, 2015, 12:29:14 PM
Thanks for posting those links Jake. I didn't realize how long it had been since I actually looked at new Gibson guitars in a catalog or website. Holy shit they're pricey these days.
If I had $3500-$4000 dollars to drop on a guitar, it would probably not be on a new Gibson (although I admit I haven't put my hands on one... maybe it's the greatest thing ever?). If it had to be spent on Gibsons, I would probably try to find 2 really nice 1990-era Les Pauls.
If I had 3500-4000 to drop on a guitar, I'd buy a truck instead.
Hehe... a nice Gibson truck.
Dude, if Gibson made trucks, they'd probably cost about 50 grand.
Quote from: RacerX on March 18, 2015, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: CID Vicious on March 15, 2015, 01:51:58 PM
Show me one sub $1000 USA Fender.
1) http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-FEN-0115602-357?src=Y0802G00SRCHCAPN&gclid=CN34sIytssQCFYU-aQodt1MA7g
2) http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-FEN-0115602-357?src=Y0802G00SRCHCAPN&gclid=CN34sIytssQCFYU-aQodt1MA7g
You posted the same link twice. There's 3 or 4 USA-made Fenders for $999 at Musician's Friend. Stratocasters and Telecasters.
I looked at an entry level Gibson at GC a month ago and the edges of the frets were sharp, like you would be bleeding after 2 minutes of playing sharp. Probably a fine instrument if you fixed that though. The Faded SG I got 10+ years ago new for $550 was very nice.
Ive charged people a hundred bucks to do fret jobs on brand new Gibbys. Come to think of it, i still charge a hundred bucks. Maybe it's time to raise my rate.
Their fretwork is shit. Seen way better on ten times shittier guitars.
Quote from: Lumpy on March 18, 2015, 07:51:26 PM
Quote from: RacerX on March 18, 2015, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: CID Vicious on March 15, 2015, 01:51:58 PM
Show me one sub $1000 USA Fender.
1) http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-FEN-0115602-357?src=Y0802G00SRCHCAPN&gclid=CN34sIytssQCFYU-aQodt1MA7g
2) http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-FEN-0115602-357?src=Y0802G00SRCHCAPN&gclid=CN34sIytssQCFYU-aQodt1MA7g
You posted the same link twice. There's 3 or 4 USA-made Fenders for $999 at Musician's Friend. Stratocasters and Telecasters.
Oops! Yeah one was supposed to be the Tele.
"These suck !"
"You're wrong!"
you just summed up the complete existence of man kind in two sentences..
Quote from: RacerX on March 18, 2015, 04:26:35 PM
Dude, if Gibson made trucks, they'd probably cost about 50 grand.
Um...you gone truck shopping lately?
Want a nice one?
$50k is cheap now.
Go look up the current value of a 1964 Edison Dime. ~$2.00 of silver today.
It was $.10 of silver then.
I had a very used Benz 240D. New in 82? $18k. A Corvette was cheaper.
Had the same year 300D. Enough to buy a Vette for the weekends and a Caprice for the weekend.
$700 & $800 used, respectively. Great used buys...is the current Benz E class Bluetech "not worth the money" because an ancestor from a different technological and economic era was "cheaper" then and can be had for relative peanuts on the used market?
The answer is that it's a combination of what you want and can afford. If you can't afford a new Kia dissing a new Benz because it's out of your budget is petty. Particularly if say Benz sold you a nice car at a Kia price.
BTW, when that dime earlier mentioned was actually worth a dime, the Corvette and Porsche 911 were sub $7000 cars, Beatles were like a grand, and Melody Makers and Juniors hung in pawn shop windows with a $75 price tag as per the Leslie West legends. Oh, those supercars ran carbs, solid state was cutting edge space age stuff, and etc.
Some folk sound like the guys I hear bitch about how acid should still be $4 a hit, 'cause that's what it was in the 60's. But then there are folks who swear the old Hemi Cuda was the bestest fastest thing ever, and that the new IRS, 4 wheel disc'd, EFI'd and Supercharged Hellcat is "new junk" despite having nearly twice the power and triple the fuel economy, etc etc...
Don't buy a Gibson. Go buy an Epi. Or a corksniffer special for the same money. Whatever.
I still like how people just do not care about Fender's $1399 Chinese specials at all, because a high dollar LP is so much more offensive :D
Quote from: CID Vicious on March 20, 2015, 11:12:51 AM
Don't buy a Gibson. Go buy an Epi. Or a corksniffer special for the same money. Whatever.
Don't need to. I already have a Gibson and an Epi.
I bought both used because that's always been my M.O.
Also, I don't have Blues Lawyer level funding.
A few thoughts:
I'm not following the collector coin and car analogies.
This thread is about new Gibsons and opinions/reflections on their value. Not what Fender is doing. Even if they are starting to leverage their name into charging more that the consensus value might be, one could make a strong case that Gibson opened that very door by getting away with it.
And just because you think some of us are not particularly pleased with new Gibsons does not mean that we are salty about not being able to afford one. That's both a huge oversimplification and a flat out wrong assumption.
I can buy an 80s diesel Benz for less than a new Gibson in most cases. Ill take the Benz.
My Dad had an '80's diesel Benz.
But he played the coronet and french horn, not a guitar.
They're fuckin tight.
The french horn?
yep. little tiny mouthpieces.
:D
Sounds like a dong quote.
hm.
A 2011 on craiglist.
(http://images.craigslist.org/00e0e_kFk3oGbcLNx_600x450.jpg)
Pelham Blue. Gonna go check it out.
That's the best Gibson color. IMHO.
Shit, it's gone.
He's got a TV Yellow, but I'm not quite as interested in that.
Here we have the new 2016 Gibson Les Paul CM. 'CM' of course stands for Child Marker because they are hand finished by children using black markers.
(http://images.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2016/USA/Les-Paul-CM/HP/HLPCM16SESN1_MAIN_HERO_01.jpg)
Quote from: liquidsmoke on March 18, 2016, 08:01:09 PM
Here we have the new 2016 Gibson Les Paul CM. 'CM' of course stands for Child Marker because they are hand finished by children using black markers.
(http://images.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2016/USA/Les-Paul-CM/HP/HLPCM16SESN1_MAIN_HERO_01.jpg)
That does look colord by sharppie.
I can't be having ink fucking up my white tux.
Who slipped pot brownies onto the snack tray at their think tank meetings?
Those look like the kinds they sell with a gig bag.