I'm currently playing a custom orange or18 (that is a or120 with a Marshall 18w power section) and I need a speaker for it. I plan on using a single 1x12 because i'm only jamming with friends and playing bars.
Primarily I'm emulating four bands: Black Sabbath, Nebula, Fu Manchu, Electric
Wizard
Currently I've tried a g12h30 but I felt it was too bright with too much treble. I'm looking for a speaker that sounds fat, full, dark, and bassey.
This is for an open back cab. What would you guys recommend?
eminence texas heats, or swamp thangs.
A lot of people have been recommending those. My initial expectation was that I should look at British voiced speakers rather than American.
How important is speaker breakup for the stoner sound? I was looking at 30w speakers to accomplish this with my 18w. However I have been told that the more distortion you use the less speaker breakup is desirable. Other sources have told me that speaker breakup is -the- stoner sound. Which is it?
The swamp things are 150 watts do there is no way my little 18w will be able to push them into breakup.
I will check them out though. Thanks for the recommendation!
weber 65s, Weber axis 12s, Weber Silver Bells
The 20-watt Celestion EVH speakers are amazing. I threw one in an old tweed amp and I couldn't be happier. A lot of folks with real greenbacks think they're the only ones that compare to the vintage ones. I'm also a big EV 12L guy, even on small amps but it seems like you're looking for a more British sound.
Quote from: dunwichamps on February 22, 2012, 09:43:40 AM
weber 65s, Weber axis 12s, Weber Silver Bells
Thanks for the advice! I really dig your amps by the way! Saw some demos on YouTube.
I was looking at webers but I hadn't considered those. I will check them out :)
Has anyone had good experiences with hemp cones? Should I stay away from them?
i dont have experience with the hemp, mine are paper. Speaker choice is all about if you want speaker distortion/compression or not. Thats a big deal
FYI for those interested, Jim from scumback recommended I go with a m75LHDC 65w.
I assume the Weber 65's are a clone of Celestion 65's. I have a 2x12 loaded with some (the original Celestions) and they have a sound that I would liken to G12-75's without so much mid scoop and fizzy sound on the highs. Tight, lots of lows, kind of compressed sounding. They can get a pretty nice thick and heavy sound. I'm on a speaker search right now myself, in choice overload. I've been thinking about something a bit more open with more upper mid/treble, leaning towards the Eminence Private Jack. It's all just second hand subjective opinion until you buy something and try it out though.
Quote from: Corey Y on February 22, 2012, 12:58:54 PM
I assume the Weber 65's are a clone of Celestion 65's. I have a 2x12 loaded with some (the original Celestions) and they have a sound that I would liken to G12-75's without so much mid scoop and fizzy sound on the highs. Tight, lots of lows, kind of compressed sounding. They can get a pretty nice thick and heavy sound. I'm on a speaker search right now myself, in choice overload. I've been thinking about something a bit more open with more upper mid/treble, leaning towards the Eminence Private Jack. It's all just second hand subjective opinion until you buy something and try it out though.
yea they are a clone of the 65 Celestions.
I believe the m75lhdc is very similar to the celestion and weber 65s as well.
25w greenback is all of what you're asking for. My fave speaker by a mile. g12H 55z are good too. I'd love to thy the EVH speakers too.
I have both Weber 65s and swamp thangs. Stay away from both. STs are sterile and clinical, especially at lower volumes/power..
You might also consider the Weber Axis, I have one and it sounds pretty great with low watt amps., not especially warm, but has a very pleasing crunch.
FWIW, I had a quad of original Celestion65's and I really dont compare them to the Weber 65's. Webers sound quite a bit more bright and cold.
if your looking for a deal try WGS speakers, little cheaper than Weber or any other brand.
I had an old Avatar cab with V30s and G12h30s, which sounded good but the cab construction sucked so it flapped the back baffle too hard under a heavy load.
the G12h30s are a nice lower wattage speaker, im not huge on the v30s nowadays
Quote from: dunwichamps on February 22, 2012, 01:52:35 PM
if your looking for a deal try WGS speakers, little cheaper than Weber or any other brand.
I had an old Avatar cab with V30s and G12h30s, which sounded good but the cab construction sucked so it flapped the back baffle too hard under a heavy load.
the G12h30s are a nice lower wattage speaker, im not huge on the v30s nowadays
In combination w/ G12H30s (like yer Aatar cab), they sound killer, tho.
Quote from: RacerX on February 22, 2012, 02:44:43 PM
Quote from: dunwichamps on February 22, 2012, 01:52:35 PM
if your looking for a deal try WGS speakers, little cheaper than Weber or any other brand.
I had an old Avatar cab with V30s and G12h30s, which sounded good but the cab construction sucked so it flapped the back baffle too hard under a heavy load.
the G12h30s are a nice lower wattage speaker, im not huge on the v30s nowadays
In combination w/ G12H30s (like yer Aatar cab), they sound killer, tho.
yea they did sound good til u hit the cab to hard then it got flubby (not the speakers tho)
Alex from Church of Wolves now has the cab with his 50W amps, so theres no problems there
Quote from: The Riffer on February 22, 2012, 01:34:58 PM
25w greenback is all of what you're asking for. My fave speaker by a mile. g12H 55z are good too. I'd love to thy the EVH speakers too.
I have both Weber 65s and swamp thangs. Stay away from both. STs are sterile and clinical, especially at lower volumes/power..
Thanks for the warning and your experience. Should I stay away from 65s in general or just the webers? Your description is definitely the opposite of the sound I'm going for.
for reference this is weber 65s and weber axis speakers
Quote from: Ombrenuit on February 22, 2012, 02:58:13 PM
Thanks for the warning and your experience. Should I stay away from 65s in general or just the webers? Your description is definitely the opposite of the sound I'm going for.
Dont get me wrong, they work much better for high wattage situations where you are pushing tons of volume. But they don't sound like what you're asking for...I liked the old 65's I had, but they were pretty well beaten in.The Weber 65's , to my ears at least, haven't settled into the "warm" category yet...Its a well balanced sound, fairly detailed, and very present, but not ice picky..Good speaker I think, but not what I would call"warm".
I'm not a huge fan of my weber 65's. I love lots of muff distortion and huge volume and the weber 65's defietally get ice picky and yeah not warm. I'm keeping an eye on this thread. Need some good options for speakers myself.
Quote from: ROWDYBEER on February 22, 2012, 09:29:03 PM
I'm not a huge fan of my weber 65's. I love lots of muff distortion and huge volume and the weber 65's defietally get ice picky and yeah not warm. I'm keeping an eye on this thread. Need some good options for speakers myself.
u have 65s in ur emperor?
Yes I do. 2 big 2x12's with the weber 65's.
Quote from: ROWDYBEER on February 22, 2012, 10:46:59 PM
Yes I do. 2 big 2x12's with the weber 65's.
You might dig the Axis 12s, Fane style speaker, as Mark mentioned good crunch
Am I the first guy to think that wanting a more British sound than a gh1230 is an odd thing to desire? Is that not akin to wanting something more sugary than sugar?
cant go wrong with some eminence speakers
Quote from: mutantcolors on February 22, 2012, 11:12:58 PM
Am I the first guy to think that wanting a more British sound than a gh1230 is an odd thing to desire? Is that not akin to wanting something more sugary than sugar?
Haha. I don't have a lot of experience with speakers. I'm not searching for a more British speaker, just a speaker that does stoner rock better. I'm open to American speakers. Just my research had pouinted me in the British direction.
Anyone have any experience with g12k100s? I was told they are like a g12t75 with a heavier magnet. Smooth highs and tight bass.
What exactly is loose bass vs tight? I heard it's the ability for the speaker to keep up with the notes in the bass frequencies. In which case, wouldn't loose bass be undesirable for upbeat stoner rock? The g12m has loose bass as far as I know.
I had a cab w a quad of g12h 100's..Celestion told me it was the predecessor to the K model, and was the same...It was really warm sounding, lots of emphasis on the low mids and lows..very relaxed highs..It worked very well on top of a cab with more aggressive speakers.. didn't tear your head off at high volumes.. May have been my cab, but I wouldn't have called it a tight bass...huge bass. but not tight..
Which is better?tight/loose? IDK, depends upon your style...I like a looser bass myself, the compression inherent to the speaker I think would dictate this...?
I love tight, chunky speakers especially when I'm palm muting or playing tighter, more precise stuff so I like EV's for that. If you want more of a looser low end for fuzzed out riffs it's hard to beat some Greenback style speaker...they're just so wrong, they're right especially when pushed hard.
18watts? I'd just get a Greenback.
Just a word about the Eminence speakers...
I think they 're awesome, but as of about a year ago there was no recone kit available for them, the swamp thangs I had at least. If you're a fan of recycling like I am, it's something to consider. I had the same issue with some Mojotones as well.
Celestion G12T100's are pretty good in my book, and dirt cheap from Avatar's overstock section. No clue about the reconing aspect for these.
i wouldn't be looking to an 18 watt amp for downtuned riffage with lots of low end
i think that's really more the sticking point than the g12h30s.. a closed-back quad or a 2x12 of those is very much up to the task
i wouldn't be going with the 1X12, given the influences you mentioned.. not enough spread and just not enough, ummm, enoughness
Clockwork green
Which ev's are best for tight palm muting etc.?
12L's are the standard. I've never tried the Black Label's.
I don't know dick about guitar speakers, but the Jet line from Jensen looks good -- Tornado, Blackbird and especially Electric Lightning which seems very aggressive.
Quote from: mawso on February 24, 2012, 04:49:30 PM
i wouldn't be looking to an 18 watt amp for downtuned riffage with lots of low end
i think that's really more the sticking point than the g12h30s.. a closed-back quad or a 2x12 of those is very much up to the task
i wouldn't be going with the 1X12, given the influences you mentioned.. not enough spread and just not enough, ummm, enoughness
Wattage determines headroom and volume. Speakers determine low end. Certainly I won't be able get as deafening as the influences I mentioned, but I won't be playing anywhere but bars, but the volume suits it's application. I'll also be able to get distortion as reasonable volumes.
Volume capacity doubles if you multiply the wattage by 10. Therefore a 100w amp is certainly louder than an 18w, but we're only talking about 50% louder.
4x12s offer lots of low end due to phase cancellation. Some frequencies are cancelled and others are enforced (low end). You can achieve a similar level of bass from a 1x12 with the right speaker and cabinet.
Quote from: Ombrenuit on February 25, 2012, 01:13:16 PM
Quote from: mawso on February 24, 2012, 04:49:30 PM
i wouldn't be looking to an 18 watt amp for downtuned riffage with lots of low end
i think that's really more the sticking point than the g12h30s.. a closed-back quad or a 2x12 of those is very much up to the task
i wouldn't be going with the 1X12, given the influences you mentioned.. not enough spread and just not enough, ummm, enoughness
Wattage determines headroom and volume. Speakers determine low end. Certainly I won't be able get as deafening as the influences I mentioned, but I won't be playing anywhere but bars, but the volume suits it's application. I'll also be able to get distortion as reasonable volumes.
Volume capacity doubles if you multiply the wattage by 10. Therefore a 100w amp is certainly louder than an 18w, but we're only talking about 50% louder.
4x12s offer lots of low end due to phase cancellation. Some frequencies are cancelled and others are enforced (low end). You can achieve a similar level of bass from a 1x12 with the right speaker and cabinet.
lower tunings and bassy tone needs more power - how many bass players are showing up with 18 watt amps?
18 watts is great for a really ballsy midrangey hard rock/classic rock kinda tone, which is what i go for, but given the bands you've namechecked it's a weird choice
Quote from: Ombrenuit on February 25, 2012, 01:13:16 PM
Wattage determines headroom and volume. Speakers determine low end. Certainly I won't be able get as deafening as the influences I mentioned, but I won't be playing anywhere but bars, but the volume suits it's application. I'll also be able to get distortion as reasonable volumes.
That isn't right. Wattage means not much at all, volume is determined by speakers, specifically sensitivity. 18w into a 100db@1w@1m speaker will be as loud as 36w into a 97db@1w@1m (roughly a Vintage 30 vs a Hot100), this applies up until the speaker starts compressing and such at its own limit, which also isn't determined by its 'wattage' but by its excursion limit. Plus every time you double the number of speakers you add 3db of sensitivity (6db voltage sensitivity if in parallel, but not too applicable to valve amps). Low end sensitivity is mostly determined by the box the speaker is in, but also not very relevant to guitar because the mid voicing will determine most of what you perceive as 'low end', a high mid voiced speaker will give the impression of having less 'low end' than a low mid voiced one, even with exact same midbass sensitivity.
Quote from: Ombrenuit on February 25, 2012, 01:13:16 PM
4x12s offer lots of low end due to phase cancellation. Some frequencies are cancelled and others are enforced (low end). You can achieve a similar level of bass from a 1x12 with the right speaker and cabinet.
They offer lots of sensitivity because of lots of speakers in a bigish box, they have not much top off axis because of bad dispersion, which makes you think you have a bottomy sound when you are close to a 4x12 on the floor, but anyone in front and the mic on it are just as trebley as a 1x12. 1x12s usually have less bottom due to being in a small box.
The real limiting factor on how low an amp can go is the size of the output transformer.
Have I ever mentioned how valuable you guys are to this forum/in general?