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General Category => Jam Room => Topic started by: clockwork green on December 19, 2011, 06:34:40 PM

Title: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: clockwork green on December 19, 2011, 06:34:40 PM
I really don't feel like going to a Guitar Center and singing acapella while testing vocal mic's but it seems like all of the people I talk to on some other sites say that's what I'll need to do because a mic needs to fit the tonality and power of the person's voice.  Right now I'm just using an SM57 because it's what I have around for recording guitars.  It's okay but not great...kinda makes me sound like I have a cold and I've heard that a 58 is essentially the same electronically.  What do you use?  What won't freak out at huge stage volumes?  My old singer used a Beta 58 and that seemed cool but it's not around any more.  I figure a condenser won't handle our stage volume.  A lot of folks seem to like the EV mic's but I've heard they're fragile (fra-gee-lay, that must be Italian). 
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: Hemisaurus on December 19, 2011, 06:39:12 PM
58 is the dame capsule and electronics, but the design of the body gives a presence peak which is popular for vocals. Shure have graphs on their website.

I personally dig a 57, I like a mic I can swallow.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: Discö Rice on December 19, 2011, 06:54:43 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on December 19, 2011, 06:39:12 PM
I like a Mike I can swallow.

Me too.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: apekillman on December 19, 2011, 07:17:49 PM
Ever see the video of some German piano player that gets a 57 knocked down his throat?
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: SpaceTrucker on December 19, 2011, 07:23:55 PM
Whatever the who used at live at leeds is what I want.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: jibberish on December 19, 2011, 09:43:40 PM
i also specifically got myself a 57 for my vocal style.  the 58 has additional construction to prevent that close in overload potential. i need the extra gain for hitting really low notes when i sing those since i cant do them at the same volume as the rest.   

Plus you can use them for all mic'ing (maybe not kick), sound guys know that mic and it has a huge history so actually we all know what it sounds like.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: Hemisaurus on December 19, 2011, 09:47:55 PM
no, it works for kick too, has better response than some dedicated kick mics you find in kits.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: cat shepard on December 19, 2011, 11:10:30 PM
Ever take the transformer out of 1? I didn't do it myself but I have used what I believe was a tranformerless 57 on kick and it had more bottom end response (pardon my verbage man), than a standard in an a-b testing scheme. I bet it would work nice to try an in-out combo with transformer and transformerless for vintage thickness maybe. Beta 57 is an excellent vox mic I have found in situations that the donator of signal into the mic has a sense of relativity in terms of how to "use" the mic, as it has a tight pickup pattern.  Beta 58 can really help cut the vox through it can be slightly difficult to manage in extreme volumes though nothing a little eq maintenance can't solve by trimming back some of the peaks that the beta family seems to provide in the chirpy areas.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: inductorguitars on December 20, 2011, 07:54:17 PM
Quote from: cat shepard on December 19, 2011, 11:10:30 PM
Ever take the transformer out of 1? I didn't do it myself but I have used what I believe was a tranformerless 57 on kick and it had more bottom end response (pardon my verbage man), than a standard in an a-b testing scheme.

Did the transformerless weigh a shit ton less than the regular one?
You'd need some electronics to get the capsule/mic have balanced output.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: Hemisaurus on December 20, 2011, 08:06:20 PM
There was some article on prosound and tape-op about removing the transformer to open up the sound, just wire the capsule to the XLR, but it decreases the output level. Wouldn't be a smart move for live sound.

I have removed the transformer from a 57, but that was one with a buggered capsule, I moved the xfmr into the gas mask.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: RAGER on December 20, 2011, 08:09:15 PM
Quote from: clockwork green on December 19, 2011, 06:34:40 PM
I really don't feel like going to a Guitar Center and singing acapella while testing vocal mic's but it seems like all of the people I talk to on some other sites say that's what I'll need to do because a mic needs to fit the tonality and power of the person's voice.  Right now I'm just using an SM57 because it's what I have around for recording guitars.  It's okay but not great...kinda makes me sound like I have a cold and I've heard that a 58 is essentially the same electronically.  What do you use?  What won't freak out at huge stage volumes?  My old singer used a Beta 58 and that seemed cool but it's not around any more.  I figure a condenser won't handle our stage volume.  A lot of folks seem to like the EV mic's but I've heard they're fragile (fra-gee-lay, that must be Italian).  
What are you gonna use it for?  If it's just for practice and shows then I think you're over thinking things.  Just get a 58 or 57. If your stage volume is that loud then you're not gonna notice shit for difference.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: jibberish on December 21, 2011, 05:37:07 AM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on December 19, 2011, 09:47:55 PM
no, it works for kick too, has better response than some dedicated kick mics you find in kits.

ahhh...so a gig case full of 57's=GTG then.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: Hemisaurus on December 21, 2011, 08:07:54 AM
I keep meaning to try these.

http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=microphones (http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=microphones)

(http://www.speakerrepair.com/ebaypics/mic-es-57.jpg)

$30 for one, $85 for three.

Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: RacerX on December 21, 2011, 02:03:37 PM
For high volume situations, the Audix OM-7 rules: low output + super-hyper-cardoid pattern. Pricey, but if you're loud & practice in a small space, well worth it. Shure SM57/58s would be making banshee-level feedback in our practice space.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: Pundan on December 21, 2011, 02:06:16 PM
I've read that the SM58 Beta is better for louder volumes, won't produce feedback as easily - any truth to that?
And has anyone tried out this ribbon microphone? It's gotten great reviews: http://www.thomann.de/se/superlux_r102.htm (http://www.thomann.de/se/superlux_r102.htm)
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: chille01 on December 21, 2011, 02:15:46 PM
I didn't click the link, but most ribbon mics are extremely fragile.  I wouldn't encourage anyone to use one as a gigging mic.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: lordfinesse on December 21, 2011, 02:23:24 PM
I would suggest looking at an EV PL80. I'm not a fan of most EV vocal mics, but this one actually sounds really good, and at $80 brand new, is not very expensive. The times that I've mixed one, I was able to run the channel eq flat (which rarely happens with a vocal mic). In those cases, it cut through the mix just fine. I can't speak for durability, but as long as you're not slamming it on a stage, it should be fine... (wait... you don't play in one of those skinny jeans screamo bands, do you?..)  As far as 58's go (Beta or not), yeah they're durable, but you'll be hearing cymbals and everything else around you as their rejection leaves a lot to be desired.

As someone suggested, an Audix OM7, or the easier to find used at a reasonable price OM3, may be worth looking into, and are solid well built mics. Please let us know what you end up going with.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: Chovie D on December 21, 2011, 02:30:42 PM
It would be pretty funny to go into Guitar Center and (as poorly as you possibly can) audtion vocal mics at the top of your lungs.  :D
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: spookstrickland on December 21, 2011, 03:21:32 PM
My Personal choice is the Shure SH55 Elvis Mic.

I love that thing.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: Hemisaurus on December 21, 2011, 03:50:03 PM
As the main thing for a live vocal mic is noise/feedback-rejection, whereas for a studio mic it's tone, I think a fairer test would be to take each mic, and see how close you can get it to the PA speaker before it starts squealing. Then move it side to side to examine it's off-axis rejection.

I have never done this, I should add, I just use SM's but I think it would be hellishly funny to see in action. Taking mic after mic, making them squeal, watch the salesperson wince. To be really technical, you should probably take along a ruler, so you can compare them numerically ;)
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: justinhedrick on December 21, 2011, 05:13:45 PM
the audix vocal mic is awesome.  (i5, i think?) so much balls, good rejection. i have buddy that damn near swears by it.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: Hemisaurus on December 21, 2011, 05:41:43 PM
Quote from: justinhedrick on December 21, 2011, 05:13:45 PM
the audix vocal mic is awesome.  (i5, i think?) so much balls, good rejection. i have buddy that damn near swears by it.
I don't get the i5, Audix design it as a '57 killer, and everyone swears it sounds as good as a 57, then they price it for more than a '57 ???

I love my '57 'cept it's Gzus's '57 and he took it back :'(
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: RacerX on December 21, 2011, 05:50:26 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on December 21, 2011, 05:41:43 PM
Quote from: justinhedrick on December 21, 2011, 05:13:45 PM
the audix vocal mic is awesome.  (i5, i think?) so much balls, good rejection. i have buddy that damn near swears by it.
I don't get the i5, Audix design it as a '57 killer, and everyone swears it sounds as good as a 57, then they price it for more than a '57 ???

I love my '57 'cept it's Gzus's '57 and he took it back :'(

That's because it's far superior to a 57 in feedback rejection, but with similar tonal characteristics.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: rayinreverse on December 21, 2011, 06:12:05 PM
i used a 57 forever. then switched to the audix. much better mic in my opinion. seems to tolerate more. seems louder, clearer, and better sounding.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: clockwork green on December 22, 2011, 12:43:59 AM
I'll probably just get a beta 58 for live stuff. I also have a Rode M2 which I got for $1 during some crazy sale they had and it's got nice tone.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: jibberish on December 22, 2011, 02:01:45 AM
Quote from: Chovie D on December 21, 2011, 02:30:42 PM
It would be pretty funny to go into Guitar Center and (as poorly as you possibly can) audtion vocal mics at the top of your lungs.  :D

fuckin' A!!! i could do that.   although no matter what, someone would probably dig it heh
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: neighbor664 on December 22, 2011, 03:41:28 PM
Sure there are plenty of better and more specialized mics, but I'm of the mind that if a singer or sound engineer can't get good sounds using a Shure SM-58 they have no business doing what they do. 

If you really want to spend the dough the Audix OM-7 is a great mic.
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: Hemisaurus on December 22, 2011, 04:41:05 PM
I think he's doing his own sound ;D
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: clockwork green on December 22, 2011, 06:15:12 PM
Here's an interesting video I found on the subject. 
Title: Re: Live Vocal Mic's?
Post by: Hemisaurus on December 23, 2011, 08:34:15 AM
Check todays stupid deal http://musiciansfriend.com/stupid (http://musiciansfriend.com/stupid)