I may be the owner of a drumset beginning tomorrow. How do you tune them?
I'm not Drummer but I really dig drums and pay attention when my drummer is talking and he taught me the most awesome thing ever.
The reason a lot of drummers can not get a huge Kick drum sound no matter how big the drum is or how they tune it or how they mic it is because they are "Burring the beater" into the drum the beater should only contact the head for an instant then be released to let the drum resonate. Lots of players just hold it there until the next beat and it acts a mute. it was amazing to see and hear the difference.
Ok that's my 2 cents
Cheers man. I wish I had a drum kit :)
Burying the beater, and letting it fly back are just different playing styles. I keep that bitch in the head, and my kick on my 24 sounds huge, AND so does my 18... It's just a matter of how you want it to sound. I want a sharp loud, round attack. I use wood beaters on both kits, too.
I tune by ear, and use one of those neat torque wrenches they make for tuning your drums. You set a specific tension, and just turn the lugs until it pops, pop it back, repeat. Then check for ripples...
You can read all you want on the web but there is no substitute for someone showing you. Even then it will take practice. A drum dial can help a newbie but they cost about $50.
Here's a short interview on the subject. Click on "FAQs" then page 2
http://www.dmattacks.co.uk/main_fr.htm
Take your time. You'll figure it out or you won't.
In the past when I lived in the same abode as a kit and no one was home, I would just take the key and adjust the lugs till it sounded good to me, usually adjusting the lug opposite of the one I just adjusted to insure uniformity and that would work fine. This is MY first kit and I can't wait, hope to get it today. Thanks for the tips.
Burying the beater in the head raises the pitch and chokes the resonance (Specifically, it chokes the fundamental frequency effectively killing your bottom end) slows you down (because you're not letting the springs in your pedals and rebound from the beaters work like they're supposed to), and drains stamina faster (it takes a lot more energy to fight the beaters and heads than it does to let them work like they should). Whether you're playing heel up or heel down it's important to use rebound to your advantage. Relax and embrace it. Also make sure your foot doesn't leave the pedal (unless you're switching between pedals, I guess), as that will also interfere with the cycling of the pedal.
Gator Snot's right - there's no substitue for someone showing you how to tune drums. However, tuning-wise there's a lot of info out there. A quick youtube search will land you almost anything you might be looking for beyond the basics.
I dont want my kick to resonate a bunch. I bury. I dont get tired anymore unless Im going straight at blasting for minutes on end.
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Loosen all the lugs and do them up finger tight. Then add a half turn to each lug in a crisscross pattern. That should give you a good fundamental low tone.
Now chances are one or more drums will have a bit of a ring to it. If the ringing gets excessive grab a piece of duct tape and stick a shorter piece sticky side to sticky side on the bottom and then stick this to the drum head right next to the rim and it will kill the ring.
You can do this in a few places on the bass drum head for an open sound or just toss a blanket in there for a more traditional dead sound. It's good to have a sheet or blanket around to keep dust off the kit anyway.
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 01, 2011, 03:52:32 PM
I dont want my kick to resonate a bunch. I bury. I dont get tired anymore unless Im going straight at blasting for minutes on end.
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This is how I learned. All the resonation comes from a full front head with a tiny hole and the front is muted by holding the beater. Even on double kick I played that way.
I think drum construction is getting a lot better and drum heads are a lot better and you don't have to do as much anymore to tame the overtones. All the modern drummers seem to play really light and let the beater float.
This may seem like an obvious thing to say but COVER YOUR DRUMSET. I had a friend who played drums and never covered his. So depressing watching a perfectly fine drumset slowly turn into a piece of shit.
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 01, 2011, 03:52:32 PM
I dont want my kick to resonate a bunch. I bury. I dont get tired anymore unless Im going straight at blasting for minutes on end.
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Clearly my experience pales in comparison to your machismo.
Experience or not, it isnt true to everyone. Keeping it buried also does wonders for my balance.
I just learned how to play a different way, is all.
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Quote from: SunnO))) on November 01, 2011, 05:00:12 PM
Experience or not, it isnt true to everyone. Keeping it buried also does wonders for my balance.
I just learned how to play a different way, is all.
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You need to work on posture and strengthening your core trunk muscles. This is a huge achilles heel for my playing.
Please excuse my bluntness. It's is much easier to show a person how to tune drums than type out steps...
Get fresh heads. They'll make it sound like a new kit.
Put them on the drum and tighten all lugs to "finger tight".
Place half the drum on a pillow (to protect the rim) and do chest compressions to the middle of the drum head a few times to stretch it out. I actually put my knee into my kick drum and use all my weight. I've seen people stand and jump on theirs but I don't try that with mine.
Tighten everything to finger tight again and in a star pattern give all the lugs a half or whole turn. I like my drums tuned low but some drums resonate better at different frequencies so mess around for the best sound.
Place your finger in the center of the drum (don't press down) and with a pencil eraser tap the drum approximately an inch away from each lug. Try to get the tones to match tightening or loosening in a star pattern.
Hit that sumbitch. Does it sound sick or sad? You did it wrong, try again.
I usually tune my resonant (bottom) head a little higher that my batter head, about a 1/4-1/2 turn.
help?
Quote from: apekillman on November 01, 2011, 05:08:26 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 01, 2011, 05:00:12 PM
Experience or not, it isnt true to everyone. Keeping it buried also does wonders for my balance.
I just learned how to play a different way, is all.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
You need to work on posture and strengthening your core trunk muscles. This is a huge achilles heel for my playing.
I sit straight up, because I can't sit any other way, due to my throne having a back rest... I'm just big, and goofy, so I have a hard time keeping my feet rolling when I get passed using my whole leg.
Quote from: blackkrosses on November 01, 2011, 05:52:36 PM
Please excuse my bluntness. It's is much easier to show a person how to tune drums than type out steps...
Get fresh heads. They'll make it sound like a new kit.
Put them on the drum and tighten all lugs to "finger tight".
Place half the drum on a pillow (to protect the rim) and do chest compressions to the middle of the drum head a few times to stretch it out. I actually put my knee into my kick drum and use all my weight. I've seen people stand and jump on theirs but I don't try that with mine.
Tighten everything to finger tight again and in a star pattern give all the lugs a half or whole turn. I like my drums tuned low but some drums resonate better at different frequencies so mess around for the best sound.
Place your finger in the center of the drum (don't press down) and with a pencil eraser tap the drum approximately an inch away from each lug. Try to get the tones to match tightening or loosening in a star pattern.
Hit that sumbitch. Does it sound sick or sad? You did it wrong, try again.
I usually tune my resonant (bottom) head a little higher that my batter head, about a 1/4-1/2 turn.
help?
Now I know why my drummer's kit goes out of tune very often. Thanks!
Quote from: Pundan on November 01, 2011, 10:02:43 PM
Quote from: blackkrosses on November 01, 2011, 05:52:36 PM
Please excuse my bluntness. It's is much easier to show a person how to tune drums than type out steps...
Get fresh heads. They'll make it sound like a new kit.
Put them on the drum and tighten all lugs to "finger tight".
Place half the drum on a pillow (to protect the rim) and do chest compressions to the middle of the drum head a few times to stretch it out. I actually put my knee into my kick drum and use all my weight. I've seen people stand and jump on theirs but I don't try that with mine.
Tighten everything to finger tight again and in a star pattern give all the lugs a half or whole turn. I like my drums tuned low but some drums resonate better at different frequencies so mess around for the best sound.
Place your finger in the center of the drum (don't press down) and with a pencil eraser tap the drum approximately an inch away from each lug. Try to get the tones to match tightening or loosening in a star pattern.
Hit that sumbitch. Does it sound sick or sad? You did it wrong, try again.
I usually tune my resonant (bottom) head a little higher that my batter head, about a 1/4-1/2 turn.
help?
Now I know why my drummer's kit goes out of tune very often. Thanks!
Nice to know I was informative.
Now the tricky part is to find the nicest way to tell your drummer to change.
tune radially, and resist the temptation to tension too high
find equal pitch across all the tension rods, and start just above wrinkle tight
you really just have to develop an ear for it in the end
edit:
burying the kick beater is bad technique
if you want your drum to sound dead, dampen it
using your kick foot for balance is also a no-no
if your posture is straight up and down, then look at the height that you have your throne set to for balance
Quote from: chlorpromazine on November 02, 2011, 06:09:36 AM
if your posture is straight up and down, then look at the height that you have your throne set to for balance
This is extremely important. If you are uncomfortable in your stool you will play badly. I like to keep my thighs at a downward angle. Everyone has a different way of sitting but you're absolutely right.
How many drummers does it take to tune a kit? I'll refrain from the rest of the joke because my own kit is badly out of tune.
I get it.
...
Quote from: cat shepard on November 01, 2011, 12:01:10 AM
I may be the owner of a drumset beginning tomorrow. How do you tune them?
Gaff tape....or moon gel :)
I, personally, don't like taping, gelling, muffling the drums in any way. That "ring" can be tuned out, if it's an annoying overtone/harmonic, but a lot of the "ring" that sound guys/engineers/guitarists want to get rid of is really the true voice of the drum. They're not built to sound like cardboard boxes.
If you're close mic'ing everything and you don't like the ring, try some other mic'ing techniques. The ring is what lets the drum be heard above/among the other instruments. You're playing acoustic instruments that have to compete with whatever electronics the other guys in the band show up with. Don't muffle them!
Quote from: justJon on November 04, 2011, 02:03:04 PM
I, personally, don't like taping, gelling, muffling the drums in any way. That "ring" can be tuned out, if it's an annoying overtone/harmonic, but a lot of the "ring" that sound guys/engineers/guitarists want to get rid of is really the true voice of the drum. They're not built to sound like cardboard boxes.
If you're close mic'ing everything and you don't like the ring, try some other mic'ing techniques. The ring is what lets the drum be heard above/among the other instruments. You're playing acoustic instruments that have to compete with whatever electronics the other guys in the band show up with. Don't muffle them!
Tuning is the key and you don't always have to tune the top and bottom head to the same pitch either. I played with a drummer that got a massive clear sound with out the ringing by doing that.
Quote from: justJon on November 04, 2011, 02:03:04 PM
I, personally, don't like taping, gelling, muffling the drums in any way. That "ring" can be tuned out, if it's an annoying overtone/harmonic, but a lot of the "ring" that sound guys/engineers/guitarists want to get rid of is really the true voice of the drum. They're not built to sound like cardboard boxes.
If you're close mic'ing everything and you don't like the ring, try some other mic'ing techniques. The ring is what lets the drum be heard above/among the other instruments. You're playing acoustic instruments that have to compete with whatever electronics the other guys in the band show up with. Don't muffle them!
+1
I also do not muffle my drums (excluding my kick, though there is a slight overtone).
snares especially need some kind of overtone in a dense mix. That's why you rarely see dampeners on snares anymore. One thing I dislike about 70's production is the super dry snare.
The Albini snare sounds PERFECT to me. IE Neurosis' Times of Grace.
I keep a small hand towel loosely wadded up against the batter head of my kick drum, mostly because it changes the feel, but it doesn't really affect the sound of a 32" long drum. I also use 1/8 of a moon gel or less on my snare, just to take away a little sustain, because otherwise it rings like a fucking bell. St. Anger style. :( Still has enough overtone to cut and sound gigantic, though. My rack tom gets no muffling, but my floor tom has an Aquarian Superkick II on it which has a little bit of built in muffling, because 16" is a shallow depth for a 22" tom, which makes it naturally ringy, and I kinda want it to sound like a kick drum anyway.
22" tom? :o You gotta photo of that motherfucker? I've got a 20" I use but damn...your schwartz is bigger than mine.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l197/BucketsOBlood/a-bot.jpg)
YES
I never noticed that the drummer I play with does the "bury the beater" thing until we recorded and I went to mix the drums. Some beats sounded more choked then others, so I watched his foot the next time we played. Yep, he does bury it on certain hits. He also has huge problems with his kick drum walking away on him when he plays, and I think its caused by the same thing.
Quote from: justJon on November 04, 2011, 02:03:04 PM
I, personally, don't like taping, gelling, muffling the drums in any way. That "ring" can be tuned out, if it's an annoying overtone/harmonic, but a lot of the "ring" that sound guys/engineers/guitarists want to get rid of is really the true voice of the drum. They're not built to sound like cardboard boxes.
If you're close mic'ing everything and you don't like the ring, try some other mic'ing techniques. The ring is what lets the drum be heard above/among the other instruments. You're playing acoustic instruments that have to compete with whatever electronics the other guys in the band show up with. Don't muffle them!
agreed
Lots of folks try to tune to a drum sound that they hear on an album where everything is isolated, mic'd, and dampened. That shit won't work in your jam room or any other live situation with amps cranked up. Tune for the fundamental note and attack you want, and your drums will sound great up against amplification. When you dampen your drums, you're removing a part of your sound from the mix.
Guy that I was gonna buy the drums from texted and said "my ex wife went and sold them drums out from under me aint that some shit man?" I didn't even text back. $250.00 set of drums that got away. Im gonna get some drums I am focused.
In my experience that means he found someone who would pay more, or immediately (like day of sale posting).
DAMN!!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TAMA-Artstar-5-pc-Monster-Tom-Shell-Kit-Cordia-inside-ply-black-wrap-Scarce-/160676179449?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25690bedf9
Also a hell of a deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tama-Rock-Star-Drum-Set-w-Hardware-Zildjian-Cymbals-/230696740362?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b698e60a
Good luck on your hunt...Heres a couple of tips that work well for me.
As said earlier, buy new heads (top and bottom) for all your drums including the snare..also on most cheaper second hand kits the snare wires are usually shot. Invest in a good wire and it will make a world of difference.
Tell the Drum guy at your local music shop what sound your after and he/she will help you choose the right heads. Most shops Will also install the heads for you. Watch what they do.
I tune bottom heads on toms at a much higher pitch than the top. The top head is tuned to the lowest possible pitch without wrinkles. I found that you get the attack from the top head and the bottom head gives you your tone.
If the bottom head is too loose you get bow like noise that most people try to fix with tape. If the bottom head is too tight it will choke the drum sound...work on finding a happy medium. Alot of people tune both heads to even tension but I find that the higher bottom head method is much more effective.
If you want crack from your snare drum, crank the bottom head right up. Its something alot of players do not know about and they think there is something wrong with the drum or the heads, but its mostly bad tuning. With the bottom head cranked you can almost tune your top head anyway you like.
If you want a fat, wet sound, Tune the top head right down and muffle the head to your liking. If you want the high cracking sound simply tune the top head up and take the muffling off.
If you want to control the overtones use moongel or similar..gaffa tape kills the tone too much because it doesnt vibrate with the head.
There a hundreds of different hints and tips to give you but its mostly in trying heaps of different tunings, seeing things done first hand and asking questions that you will get your drums sounding killer.
Enjoy.
Still on the hunt. Thanks for all the information. I will post pics when I get my drums. Being that the $250.00 set got away, I am thinking I will have to save a little more before making a purchase taking some extra time, but I remain focused on getting these drums, I love to play music and am anti-social, and an asshole to boot. So I am gonna get some drums and just record my own shit and maybe meet some like minded people through the demos or maybe not. If not I will just record till death.