Because some of us are virgins!
What is the best instrument cable length when you are singing and have your guitar going into a pedalboard which is near the vocal mic? How about those coiled ones? What is the best cable length to run from a pedalboard into your amp?
Do venue/sound people freak if you use your own vocal mic and run a vocal effects unit? Where do you put the house mic during your set?
Do drunk idiots sometimes spill beer on floor pedals that are close to the edge of the stage/on the floor near the crowd? If this happens mid song do you just keep going and then try to clean it up after the song is over?
Is it now the norm to give all of your gig money to the touring band(assuming you are a local band on a bill)?
Tips on how to save/spend gig money for broke musicians?
Tips on how not to have gear stolen at gigs?
What is the best instrument cable length when you are singing and have your guitar going into a pedalboard which is near the vocal mic? How about those coiled ones? What is the best cable length to run from a pedalboard into your amp?
Long enough to reach and not be in the way, that's all that matters in my long experience (you may hear differently)
Do venue/sound people freak if you use your own vocal mic and run a vocal effects unit? Where do you put the house mic during your set?
95% won't mind and just tell the soundguy you have your own mic, he'll probably appreciate that actually, and he'll take his or tell you where to set it... Some soundguys might trip if your vocal effects unit is elaborate and requires extra setup, especially if you hit him with "Hey man, I dunno how this thing works or sounds through your PA". Basically just get with him first, it'll be fine if he knows whats up beforehand
Do drunk idiots sometimes spill beer on floor pedals that are close to the edge of the stage/on the floor near the crowd? If this happens mid song do you just keep going and then try to clean it up after the song is over?
Yes, this happens, and you'll notice that experienced players never put the pedalbox within beer range. Six feet min. is usually a safe distance, but obviously some dumps have small stages or other restrictions (like, no stage). NEVER stop a song midway through unless an assassin shot a poisoned dart in your singer's eye. Actually, if it's just the singer, keep going ;)
Is it now the norm to give all of your gig money to the touring band(assuming you are a local band on a bill)?
Yes, it's the general rule. Exceptions would be if there's a giant pile of money at the end of the night (rare) and there's enough to spread around. Ex: If there's one touring band, two locals and there's 350 bucks...250 to the road band and fifty each for the locals isn't shitty, but if there's 200 then it's shitty for the locals to keep anything. Rough guidelines there, it's flexible depending on different things (bigger national acts may have a preset guarantee separate from the door intake which locals can then fight over ;)
Tips on how to save/spend gig money for broke musicians?
Dump gig money into merch, be wise on the merch purchases you make, be willing to spend a little of your own where necessary (if your t-shirt run is gonna be 200 buckas, and the band fund has 170, get the balance happening if you know the shirts will sell, etc.)...Seahag has operated in the black its entire existence but we were lucky, learned from others, and paid attention to everything...
Cheers Maze \m/
and never leave your gear unwatched, ever. Don't load it out if you're going back in to watch the show, don't leave your backups in the car.
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 21, 2011, 03:30:34 PM
and never leave your gear unwatched, ever. Don't load it out if you're going back in to watch the show, don't leave your backups in the car.
i agree with everything that's been said so far. if you have one of those pedals made specifically for vocals, no sound guy should have a problem with that, unless of course you settings sound really outlandish or something.
also, be sure to thank the sound guy after the show personally (not over the pa).
Don't go to STL then, you'll be dissappointed, the sound guy at the show we played with Bulletwolf, refused to take my DI for bass, despite the fact I need effects in the sound, after some discussion he was told to fuck off, and I didn't need his PA (but more politely), I was louder than his PA was anyways ;)
Bastard also took the first $75 of the door, if that place had stayed open, we'd never play there again ;D
Oh and don't play Springfield either, had a soundguy once offer to tell me how to setup my bass rig properly BEFORE I had even turned it on, the guy hadn't heard it yet, but already knew how to get my sound better than me ::)
Bastard also took the first $75 of the door
That's pretty common. The cost of putting on the show has to be covered first. that's nothing new or dickish to me.
I wouldn't have objected if he hadn't been a dick in the first place. Usually the venue gets the first cut of the door, not the sound guy.
I object, strongly, to untrained, tin eared guys with too much money, who buy a bunch of gear and call themselves sound engineers, and then proceed to inflict their ill-informed views on the rest of the musical society.
I think it's probably coming from the UK where PA is generally better.
There are some great guys over here, and some well meaning guys who bought some gear and setup clubs, and I salute them for that. It's just the ones that think their gods gift because they own the PA, and have no clue how to use it, that tick me off.
All of these questions were expertly answered. I love this place.
Doormen, bartenders, bouncerdouches, janitors, soundguy, parking lotbeercansmasher...these people are employed by the bar and thus should be handled by the bar separately and away from bands....pulling this "I gotta pay ______before you guys" is an age-old scamtrick that sucks. "Oh sorry, my light bill went up, here's eight bucks". Because a practice is commonplace doesn't make it okay. We all know how much alcohol costs vs. how much drinks cost across a bar...
^ my tew scents ^
Well we knew about the $75 going in, we didn't know all the other asshattery though.
Also, +666 on Hemi's take re: the gear. Get one of those circular locks that can't be easily cut off w/ cutters, back the trailer against a wall or fence whenever possible so the trailer doors can't open, that kinda thing. Keep one cat watching shit if you're gonna go watch the other bands. If the singer got his eye shot out by a ninja assassin, make him "keep an eye on" the merch table ;)
Re: soundmen. We always made sure our set was workable with NO P.A., just amps, just in case. That'll serve you well if you get to some dump and A) the PA is broken/lame/beer-spilt from prior band...B) Soundman drank two bottles of Robitussin, never did sound in his life except last Thursday when he and Normal Soundguy What Quit did rails in the booth during the Battle of the Bands, and now thinks the board is a giant spaceship control module C) any combo of A and B.
Hahahaha, this place is awesome, great questions and answers.
Transporting equipment:
Be as diligent with your pack, as you can. I transport all of the shit for Lowe in a Ford Ranger with a camper top. Two 4x12s, a 2x15, JCM800/Model T, Acoustic 370, two guitars, bass, two pedalboards and a large drum kit. Everything is stacked neatly and precisely, no dicking around figuring out where to put shit. I was the grand packmaster when we were playing a bunch. I have that load-in/load-out planned to the fuckin' teeth. Takes us ten minutes to unload all of that shit into the venue. 15-20 to load it all back into the truck. I'm a major dick about the pack, my bandmates had to learn it in the event of me not being available to load it back in. It's all my fuckin' equipment, if they want to use it, they can put it in the truck how it's supposed to be. Ain't too much to ask, IMO.
Dealing with venues:
We never ask for money, I do this shit for fun, and I'm not going to be all indignant about money. I'm glad I've been able to open for a bunch of bands that I fuckin' love and I didn't have to pay to seem. Payment enough. If money is involved, unless you're the touring band, be happy you got anything. Most of us get nothin'.
Sound guys:
Some suck, some rule. Most of the local guys know not to even bother micing my band, save for the drums in places big enough to mic them. We usually play houses, and tiny bars, or DIY venues. So, RAW POWER is a good policy.
People fucking your shit up:
I'm a HUGE dick when people don't respect my equipment. I've had people spill beers onto my pedal board twice, once it shorted the power strip out, and I almost punched him in the jaw. Second time nothing happened, but he ran and grabbed a towel really fast, and got most of it up. He was a nice dude. I've had people walk up and lean on my rig, one guy almost leaned my Marshall to the floor, and I promptly told him to fuck off.
Moshing kids, too. I LOVE moshing, I mosh every fuckin' chance I get, but I'm respectful as fuck. Braveyoung came through with the Body, and they left their equipment set up so they didn't have to waste a bunch of time, so the Body could go right on. They have a crazy elaborate setup, and when kids and I were moshing for the Body, I noticed they were slamming into that vibraphone, and the merch table. So, I just hopped up on stage between songs, and made a very loud announcement to mind your moshing. The bands were super appreciative of that.
I'm not always aggressive, only after a night of dealing with drunk assholes telling me their life stories about how they used to be in a band and how they got burned out on music, but they still consider themselves ROCK N ROLLERS, that's when I start being terse with people...
Thanks for all of the info peoples. I would like to invite others to ask questions in this thread whenever you need to. I will have more at a later date I'm sure.
Quote from: Metal and Beer on October 21, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
Re: soundmen. We always made sure our set was workable with NO P.A., just amps, just in case. That'll serve you well if you get to some dump and A) the PA is broken/lame/beer-spilt from prior band...B) Soundman drank two bottles of Robitussin, never did sound in his life except last Thursday when he and Normal Soundguy What Quit did rails in the booth during the Battle of the Bands, and now thinks the board is a giant spaceship control module C) any combo of A and B.
HAHA!
Bring a couple sheets and throw over your gear when it's stowed against the wall before and after you play. People are less inclined to lean against or put their beer on something that's covered in a sheet. nearly been in fights because I told somebody to stop leaning on my shit or putting their drinks on my shit. Stupid fuckers
Extra extension cords, extra power cords and extra power strips are all crucial...I've never needed one but I've had to loan them to my singer and bass player and backups for your backups won't hurt either...I even keep an extra strap in my suitcase along with tools, strings and a few tubes and of course, cables (instrument, cable and patch)
Quote from: RAGER on October 22, 2011, 03:15:53 PM
Bring a couple sheets and throw over your gear when it's stowed against the wall before and after you play. People are less inclined to lean against or put their beer on something that's covered in a sheet. nearly been in fights because I told somebody to stop leaning on my shit or putting their drinks on my shit. Stupid fuckers
Yowza. I think I'd be ratting them out to venue staff before things got too heated. I don't think be able to play guitar and sing if I had just nearly been in a fight with some idiot.
Please... With the proper amount of bass in your voice people will get the point. If they're real assholes about it, get kuh-razy. Get your band mates in on the situation (remember, this is about protecting your gear, not personal honor), pick up a bottle and be "
assertive+" or just throw it about neck high if you think it's gonna be a real fight. ;D
As you get more gigs under your belt, you'll instinctively scout the safest (driest, least traffic/beer spilling dipshits) corners of the venues (the soundguys will often know where the "good" spots are, too ); it becomes second nature after a while.
I'm assuming that bands are usually told how much time they have for their set or at least what time they need to be done at but in all the years of going to shows I've never thought to actually time any sets. When playing with 2 or 3 other bands is it normal to get about 30 minutes?
generally, do no more than 35 unless you're the last band. anything more is self-aggrandizement. 'about 30' should usually be fine.
40 to 45 was the norm here. Sometimes we would be cut short cuz someone took too long to set up, but sometimes we were asked to stretch it to 50 min or better.
30 minutes is normal here but some bands just do 20 and some try for 40 plus.
30 is norm. you'll have to clear it with sound guy if your set is more than 40. They'll also wanna know if your set is 20.
Good to know, this is about what I thought. Without covers our set is about 35. If we bring back the covers and do half hour sets we can rotate songs in and out to change it up, I like that idea very much although it's more to practice and keep up on. I have to practice songs on a regular basis or I fuck them up.
I'd drop the covers and concentrate on getting the flow of the songs in a certain order and do that for a while then mix up the set every so often.
Quote from: moose23 on September 15, 2012, 05:49:42 PM
I'd drop the covers and concentrate on getting the flow of the songs in a certain order and do that for a while then mix up the set every so often.
Yeah we actually did drop the covers a few months back so we'd have time to play our 6 originals twice each at our 2 hour after work/before it's getting kinda late to be playing loud practices. I'd like to bring at least one back. Doing a half hour set we'd only be able to do 5 songs so we could mix the other 2 in and out, that would at least keep things from getting boring until we start writing new stuff again. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
tip the soundguy and tell him what you want. I have had a bunch of stuff stolen, one of my friends bands had their entire set of gear stolen, so watch out for that! If your in it for the $$ then join a cover band, and avoid pay to play!!! stay for at least the band after you. have band business cards with website on em, bouncer etc might work at another bar etc etc... also realize that band tshirts might not sell so well so test out the market first. dont get worked up about selling cds since most wont buy em these dayz
Get your shit on and off the stage as quickly as possible.
More than 30 minutes is too long, unless your band rules. Even then, more than 30 can be too long. If your band is only just 'good' or okay and plays more than 30 minutes, it can get really annoying. After 20-25 minutes I'm ready to hear you say "this is our last song" unless you are the headliners. Better to leave people wanting more, that way they will be interested in seeing you again. 25 minutes is a good length, or 20 if you're a punk rock band with short songs.
Don't play covers. There may be an exception to that, but I doubt it. There's no upside to playing a cover, IMO, unless you're a teenager/first band/not serious.
I hate shows that don't run on time, bands who take a long time to set up/break down, and standing around waiting for shows to start. Only rock shows seem to have a problem with starting on time, this kinda stuff doesn't happen with film screenings, poetry readings, theater performances, sporting events, or at clubs that have their shit together. Or if you're going to run your show on a leisurely schedule, don't book 4 or 5 bands. Maybe have 3 bands with set times at 9/10/11. IMO shows should end around/before midnight on weeknights, maybe midnight to 1am on weekends.
Just my opinion as an audience member, not a musician.
I disagree with the covers argument. For me, a cover is a perfect way for a band to make a statement, especially if you're a beginning band. Even after playing a weaker set if you end with a cover, it can be leave the audience wanting more. I'm a huge fan of covering things your own way, change it up a bit. It'll make it more interesting.
Spoken as a dude of the late nineties hardcore scene, sell shit for a profit as cheap as possible, people are more likely to buy your cd if its under $5 and with shirts I'm cheap and I won't buy a $20 shirt but sellem under $10 and its a deal, also remember we all aren't skinny little emo kids make 2 or 3 xxl shirts and the fat guys will buy them too!!!!
from last thread in this room on this subject, check out these guidelines for gigging, they apply to most original bands: http://dyingscene.com/news/13-common-sense-guidelines-for-playing-in-a-punk-band/
It only took us one or two gigs to get the hang of things. You just need to do it and then afterwards talk with your bandmates and say, "What should we do differently next time to make it go smoother and sound better?" I agree that you should mainly focus on getting your stuff on and off quickly. Make sure everyone knows what they need to do and to help out if someone finishes before the others. No one should be sitting around idle while others are working. When it comes time to soundcheck, make sure you're playing at basically your loudest. Hopefully you already have your switching planned out so there's no drastic volume changes. The solo boost is the exception, but I would try to get your band to quiet down in those parts as well instead of relying on your boost pedal increase to translate well over the PA. Lastly, and this will come after 2-3 shows, you should work on a set, not a collection of songs. Your band will seem more professional if you seamlessly transition between songs rather than play one, stop, play another, stop...etc.
I just see covers as fun and have had a blast rocking out double hard when bands play them live but I appreciate all opinions on this topic.
1. be responsible for your gear, only you know if you have everything you brought.
2. have your vehicle tetris down, if you pack the same way every time then you know what goes where and if anything is missing. damnweevil had our van setup down pat. basically if everything has a home it makes load into and out of the gig easier and faster. for instance we could load 4 412's, an 810, 3 heads, 4 guitars, 2 basses, 5 piece kit (plus all related hardware) and all extra gear boxes and merch in about 25-35 minutes. (also metal dave's tip about backing the van against a pole or wall is a priceless and invaluable tip, also get a folding sunshade, if its your van tint any rear windows as much as legally possible, the less anyone sees the less inclined they'll be to steal your stuff.)
3. its okay to have a beer or 2 before the gig (or 7-10 if you're metal dave) but do not get wasted before you play, if you are sloppy cuz of the sauce you wont be fun to watch, you may thing you're the most charming thing ever when in reality you are making a fool out of yourself. i speak from experience, one night in colombus we were getting shots delivered to the stage by someone in the crowd, i blacked out halfway thru the set, apparently i ended the night climbing the van and dancing a jig on the roof, makes a funny story but not a good gig.
additional note, on tour have a designated driver every night, rotate nightly, dui's are no bueno
4. keep extras of any consumables, picks, strings, fuses, batteries, cords. prepare for the worst and pray for the best.
5. on tour have a good toolkit and a chilton guide for the vehicle you are traveling in, also look into AAA road service. you will break down 100% guaranteed on the road. if you are somewhat mechanically competent you should be able to fix some small things like changing an alternator, or replacing a fan belt, or fixing a busted hose or things of that nature, you will save money. for the bigger issues that 100 free miles of towing from AAA can be a lifesaver.
6. another tour tip, even if you plan on staying in hotels (which is cost prohibitive) bring a sleeping bag and a pillow, floors and couches get offered up all the time. in damnweevil we brought tents too and would camp if the season was right. additionally it doesn't hurt to rotate sleeping in the van for security purposes it sucks but it beats having gear stolen, also if rotating designated drivers the driver does not have to sleep in the van cuz they got you to your destination safely (bonus!!!)
7. have a bucket, write "gas money" on it and walk around after your set (not during other bands' sets though) and ask for gas money, chat with people be nice and don't beg. again back to touring experience we would often make an additional 50-100 bucks a night at most places, once we pulled in almost $300 in the bucket, which was more then 2 times what we got from the door.
anyways i could keep going, but ill stop for now.
Here are a few I've picked up over time:
1 ) Don't be late getting to a gig if you can help it. Nothing feels worse than running behind and it really pisses off the other bands.
2 ) If you are the singer, get your own mic unless you like the smell of Beer, Lip Balm and or already have herpes.
3 ) Drink Plenty of water all day, by the time you feel thirsty it's too late and are already dehydrated.
4 ) Become an expert on over the counter medication for all your aches and pains, Upset stomach and the shits. The show must go on and there is no time to experiment, learn what works best for your body and have some of what ever you need the most of on hand all the time.
5 ) You can never have too many 9v batteries
6 ) Always have Jumper Cables and Fix-a-flat in your tour rig, not only for your band but you might just help some one else out too with a jump after a gig.
7 ) A soldering Iron and a multi Meter are also a good thing to have in your tool kit.
8 ) A nice big Maglite for the van and a good personal size flashlight for everyone is also good idea. Make sure to change the batteries often so if you have to change a tire in the dark you can do it. Also them Big Maglites are good for more than just seeing in the dark ;)
9 ) If you don't read, start now a good book can really help pass the time and there will be plenty of that.
10 ) If anyone wears glasses an eye glass screw driver is worth it's wait in gold.
*Bonus tip for staying healthy during or after a gig: "Sniff Test" ;)
A lot of great advices. Fantastic!
My advice: You need get over the time issue as fast as possible. Yes, you are going to have to wait for hours and hours before a gig. And if you need to travel 500 km to get to the gig it will always take longer than you expect. So don't complain about it, just deal with it. Those precious minutes on stage are worth it... :)
Great thread! 8)
Playing live is awesome! I fucked up bunch but people (not knowing our songs) didn't seem to notice too much. I could barely see my fretboard at sound check and they brought out a light we clipped onto the side of the PA speaker near me that saved my ass. Now I want to learn to play the songs with my eyes closed. The whole thing was surreal but we got a good response and it felt good. The work paid off.
The dripping sweat from loading the cars and the venue in and out though, wow. My shirt smells like I ran 3 marathons.
Rock 'n' fuckin' metal!
Quote from: liquidsmoke on November 09, 2012, 03:47:00 AM
Playing live is awesome! I fucked up bunch but people (not knowing our songs) didn't seem to notice too much. I could barely see my fretboard at sound check and they brought out a light we clipped onto the side of the PA speaker near me that saved my ass. Now I want to learn to play the songs with my eyes closed. The whole thing was surreal but we got a good response and it felt good. The work paid off.
The dripping sweat from loading the cars and the venue in and out though, wow. My shirt smells like I ran 3 marathons.
Rock 'n' fuckin' metal!
Deadly! Wait til you play under stage lights and you'll know all about sweating. Nobody ever notices your mistakes unless you royally cock up.
Quote from: moose23 on November 09, 2012, 05:40:21 AM
Quote from: liquidsmoke on November 09, 2012, 03:47:00 AM
Playing live is awesome! I fucked up bunch but people (not knowing our songs) didn't seem to notice too much. I could barely see my fretboard at sound check and they brought out a light we clipped onto the side of the PA speaker near me that saved my ass. Now I want to learn to play the songs with my eyes closed. The whole thing was surreal but we got a good response and it felt good. The work paid off.
The dripping sweat from loading the cars and the venue in and out though, wow. My shirt smells like I ran 3 marathons.
Rock 'n' fuckin' metal!
Deadly! Wait til you play under stage lights and you'll know all about sweating. Nobody ever notices your mistakes unless you royally cock up.
Deadly is the right word. You will now spiral into the unrewarding world of playing live at the ground level. Welcome!!
I shouldn't put it that way though. Playing live is fun, if you don't get too emotional about stuff. As time has gone on I have learned that getting emotional about circumstances beyond my control is a waste of effort, that will likely shorten my life. Concentrate on your set, communicate with your bros and the staff, and have a blast, and don't get a DUI or weedUI (they have a roadside test for Weed here in NC FYI) and you will enjoy this hobby immensely. That's my advice, don't get emotional.
Deadly is used as a good thing here kinda like sick or something in the US. Good life advice there too.
No pauses. Don't change tunings. Don't talk.
What is the best instrument cable length when you are singing and have your guitar going into a pedalboard which is near the vocal mic? How about those coiled ones? What is the best cable length to run from a pedalboard into your amp?
I use these for now, they work fine http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102962 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102962)
Do venue/sound people freak if you use your own vocal mic and run a vocal effects unit? Where do you put the house mic during your set?
I always use my own, an SM57 but I don't run effects for vox. I tuck the house mic under the handle of my Beta Lead.
Do drunk idiots sometimes spill beer on floor pedals that are close to the edge of the stage/on the floor near the crowd? If this happens mid song do you just keep going and then try to clean it up after the song is over?
Never had this happen. Pretty sure my RAT has been through worse though.
Is it now the norm to give all of your gig money to the touring band(assuming you are a local band on a bill)?
YES! Always.
Tips on how to save/spend gig money for broke musicians?
BUY USED! also...
http://www.hellomusic.com/newLanding.aspx (http://www.hellomusic.com/newLanding.aspx)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid/?icid=200510 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid/?icid=200510)
Tips on how not to have gear stolen at gigs?
I just throw everything in one of those huge green army bags when I'm done.
Quote from: Ombrenuit on November 09, 2012, 09:09:14 AM
No pauses. Don't change tunings. Don't talk.
We paused to tune a bit between songs but that's partly because I have a new guitar and I'm still getting used to it. No tuning changes for sure, I've heard bands fuck that up really bad and be out of tune the rest of their set. I did talk a bit, I said thank you after most of the songs and before our last song thanked the people involved in putting together the show and maybe the venue and relayed info about one of the bands having to cancel, it seemed like the right thing to do since we went on first.
The guy who helps with the soundcheck(not the sound guy, there was no "sound guy") was totally cool with me using my own mic and effects. I use a lot of reverb.
Quote from: grimniggzy on November 09, 2012, 12:57:34 PM
What is the best instrument cable length when you are singing and have your guitar going into a pedalboard which is near the vocal mic? How about those coiled ones? What is the best cable length to run from a pedalboard into your amp?
I use these for now, they work fine http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102962 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102962)
Do venue/sound people freak if you use your own vocal mic and run a vocal effects unit? Where do you put the house mic during your set?
I always use my own, an SM57 but I don't run effects for vox. I tuck the house mic under the handle of my Beta Lead.
Do drunk idiots sometimes spill beer on floor pedals that are close to the edge of the stage/on the floor near the crowd? If this happens mid song do you just keep going and then try to clean it up after the song is over?
Never had this happen. Pretty sure my RAT has been through worse though.
Is it now the norm to give all of your gig money to the touring band(assuming you are a local band on a bill)?
YES! Always.
Tips on how to save/spend gig money for broke musicians?
BUY USED! also...
http://www.hellomusic.com/newLanding.aspx (http://www.hellomusic.com/newLanding.aspx)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid/?icid=200510 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid/?icid=200510)
Tips on how not to have gear stolen at gigs?
I just throw everything in one of those huge green army bags when I'm done.
Quote from: Pissy on November 09, 2012, 06:44:25 AM
Deadly is the right word. You will now spiral into the unrewarding world of playing live at the ground level. Welcome!!
I shouldn't put it that way though. Playing live is fun, if you don't get too emotional about stuff. As time has gone on I have learned that getting emotional about circumstances beyond my control is a waste of effort, that will likely shorten my life. Concentrate on your set, communicate with your bros and the staff, and have a blast, and don't get a DUI or weedUI (they have a roadside test for Weed here in NC FYI) and you will enjoy this hobby immensely. That's my advice, don't get emotional.
I can be a very uptight anxious guy so I tried to stay as calm as possible all day leading up the our set and it helped. Mostly I try to be a go with the flow person. The good thing is that Madison seems to be very ready for a doom metal band right now and we seemed to go over very well. It helped that we played the built in crowd place. I'm sure there will be some shows that we just play to the other bands but that's normal. I probably drank a tad too much but I had no problem loading all of my gear into my car and then basement by myself at/after bar time. I had to stick around and ride the post set high and hang out with friends and chat folks up. Fun stuff!
Quote from: Ombrenuit on November 09, 2012, 09:09:14 AM
No pauses. Don't change tunings. Don't talk.
Changing tunings is not necessarily a bad thing, but I'd recommend using a pretuned second guitar to do it.
my band 'reverse headlines' almost every gig we play..
Quote from: chlorpromazine on September 16, 2012, 02:16:42 AM
Get your shit on and off the stage as quickly as possible.
^^^^
Best advice.
So I've played 3 live shows ever now but I'd like to add a couple tips.
1 - Set up in your practice space how you are going to be on stage so you get used to hearing or not hearing the band
2 - The sound on stage is most likely not going to be very good and you probably won't be able to hear the whole band because your first shows are probably going to be in shitholes and the sound guy most likely isn't very good unless your lucky.
3 - If you are the singer (like me) make sure the mic is not going to electrocute you BEFORE you start your set. This is going to happen more often then you would expect.
Good stuff. Exactly how much does it hurt when the mic shocks you? I can't imagine even doing the set. I bring my own mic and my lips are on it half the time I'm singing.
Went to a show tonight, 5 bands, long show. Like our show last night the stage was VERY DARK. I never really thought about it before. I'm guessing most real venues don't mind putting the stage lights on a bit but it's probably considered lame. Since I never went through that decade of playing guitar or bass 3 hours a day like most people do I'm not that good and have to pretty much stare at my fretboard during most of our songs. So it's basically start practicing 10 times as much with my eyes closed or bring a light/ask for more light on stage which is probably 15 year old beginner stuff. When I can't see the fretboard dots I often don't know where I am on the neck until I hear myself playing the wrong note. Fuck.
Anyone have any thoughts on this other than 'you suck, give up or starting practicing 3 hours a day with your eyes closed!'?
Maybe a little diy stage lighting for your own benefit? A band I used to do shows with would plug in a couple table lamps on either side of the stage, probably more for themselves, but it was a cool effect as well. Made me want to kick back with a cigar and a newspaper.
I don't really see too well when I'm playing. Between stage lights, sweat, and a blur of arms and sticks, it becomes a lot like playing blind. I've gotten used to it, though, and my instrument doesn't require me to find a dime sized button on a box the size of an Altoid can to bring the heavy, so it's nowhere near as important for me to be able to see as it is for a guitarist with more than say, two pedals.
My contribution to the gigging advice would be... always know what is coming next in the set. We usually write the set in advance and jam it in order at least once or twice, so I have a pretty good idea anyway. But I always make sure while playing one song that I glance at the set list and know what the NEXT song is. That way you can plow through your set without looking like a bunch of schlubs. And it helps avoid that embarrassing situation where the drummer counts the song in and you're the only guy on stage that doesn't know what the fuck is going on.
Quote from: liquidsmoke on November 10, 2012, 02:54:19 AM
Good stuff. Exactly how much does it hurt when the mic shocks you? I can't imagine even doing the set. I bring my own mic and my lips are on it half the time I'm singing.
At the first show we played I'm not gonna lie it fucking hurt a lot and it was completely unexpected. Hit me right when I leaned in to sing on the first song and snapped my head back. I had my head so far away from the mic apparently people could barely hear me singing. The second time it wasn't that bad but it was definitely noticable. I think it depends on how bad the club's electrical is but any sort of shock at all is going to be very noticable when its hitting you in the mouth/face area.
Quote from: BastardCthulhu on November 10, 2012, 07:28:33 AM
Maybe a little diy stage lighting for your own benefit? A band I used to do shows with would plug in a couple table lamps on either side of the stage, probably more for themselves, but it was a cool effect as well. Made me want to kick back with a cigar and a newspaper.
With an old band of mine we had a lot of lamps and lights on stage. They were mostly junk we found or our parents were about to throw away. We tried to hide them behind amps and drums and it looked pretty cool. We also used colored plastic sheets so that the light would be red, green or whatever instead of white, like Yngwie says "No white light on stage!".
Quote from: giantchris on November 12, 2012, 12:31:31 AM
Quote from: liquidsmoke on November 10, 2012, 02:54:19 AM
Good stuff. Exactly how much does it hurt when the mic shocks you? I can't imagine even doing the set. I bring my own mic and my lips are on it half the time I'm singing.
At the first show we played I'm not gonna lie it fucking hurt a lot and it was completely unexpected. Hit me right when I leaned in to sing on the first song and snapped my head back. I had my head so far away from the mic apparently people could barely hear me singing. The second time it wasn't that bad but it was definitely noticable. I think it depends on how bad the club's electrical is but any sort of shock at all is going to be very noticable when its hitting you in the mouth/face area.
This generally only happens when one is also playing guitar or bass right?
I saw it happen once or twice years back but I don't remember where.
Quote from: Volume on November 12, 2012, 05:48:08 AM
Quote from: BastardCthulhu on November 10, 2012, 07:28:33 AM
Maybe a little diy stage lighting for your own benefit? A band I used to do shows with would plug in a couple table lamps on either side of the stage, probably more for themselves, but it was a cool effect as well. Made me want to kick back with a cigar and a newspaper.
With an old band of mine we had a lot of lamps and lights on stage. They were mostly junk we found or our parents were about to throw away. We tried to hide them behind amps and drums and it looked pretty cool. We also used colored plastic sheets so that the light would be red, green or whatever instead of white, like Yngwie says "No white light on stage!".
Once in awhile I see bands bring there own lights for effect, never so they can see what they are doing though. It amazing the shit out of me that most people can play most of their songs without having to look at their fretboards at all. I don't think I will ever know the guitar that well. Really I started getting serious too late and feel I've past the point of ever getting "good". I'm half thinking about quitting the live thing after we get a few more gigs in but I want to keep writing music and can't see not recording and releasing it.
The whole lights out thing never bothered me. My pedalboard is littered with way-too-fucking-bright LED's, so I can typically always see, furthermore, it's good effect that my pedals ARE my light setup.
If anyone noticed the puns, you win.
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 12, 2012, 10:50:44 PM
The whole lights out thing never bothered me. My pedalboard is littered with way-too-fucking-bright LED's, so I can typically always see, furthermore, it's good effect that my pedals ARE my light setup.
If anyone noticed the puns, you win.
Could you play just as well without your pedalboard lights? Just curious.
Quote from: liquidsmoke on November 12, 2012, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 12, 2012, 10:50:44 PM
The whole lights out thing never bothered me. My pedalboard is littered with way-too-fucking-bright LED's, so I can typically always see, furthermore, it's good effect that my pedals ARE my light setup.
If anyone noticed the puns, you win.
Could you play just as well without your pedalboard lights? Just curious.
Yeah, I cheat, my stage axe has knife notches cut into the bottom of the neck on the odd frets.
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 12, 2012, 11:31:38 PM
Quote from: liquidsmoke on November 12, 2012, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on November 12, 2012, 10:50:44 PM
The whole lights out thing never bothered me. My pedalboard is littered with way-too-fucking-bright LED's, so I can typically always see, furthermore, it's good effect that my pedals ARE my light setup.
If anyone noticed the puns, you win.
Could you play just as well without your pedalboard lights? Just curious.
Yeah, I cheat, my stage axe has knife notches cut into the bottom of the neck on the odd frets.
Ah, not a bad idea. I'm going to get some type of LED reading light for my pedalboard and point it up at me. If that isn't enough I'll rig up a dim lightbulb or something for my board.
I have an MXR Carbon Copy that has a bright blue LED on it that it way too bright. I put some blue masking tape over it so that it didn't blind me, I can certainly still see the light as it shines right through, but it isn't as harsh anymore. I can't imagine staring at a whole pedalboard full of those things. That would drive me nuts.
Quote from: Pissy on November 17, 2012, 09:49:53 AM
I have an MXR Carbon Copy that has a bright blue LED on it that it way too bright. I put some blue masking tape over it so that it didn't blind me, I can certainly still see the light as it shines right through, but it isn't as harsh anymore. I can't imagine staring at a whole pedalboard full of those things. That would drive me nuts.
I do whatever my pedals tell me to do...
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/bren1973/Nov62012.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/bren1973/Pedalboardindark003.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/bren1973/Pedalboardindark002.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/bren1973/Pedalboardindark001.jpg)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Chiprocks1/DVD%20Covers%2002/Close%20Encounters%20Of%20The%20Third%20Kind/CloseEncountersOfTheThirdKind.jpg)
haha! Behringer uses those super bright blue LEDs too. Taped over the one on my little pedalboard vocal mixer.
I'm going to stick a red light bulb on my board so I can see what I'm doing. Plus I'll be red and evil.
I used to have a couple of the Snarling Dogs pedals and a bunch of glow-in-the-dark stickers. Those are all awsome under a blacklight. I always thought about putting one on my board.
I found a company that makes glow in the dark fretboard dot stickers, might give that a try although it's pretty cheesy looking.
It's down to muscle memory. Play your set to a click or backing tracks when you're at home, focus on a tight, mistake free run thru each time. If you find yourself making a mistake, go back and work on that part. There's nothing worse than drilling in mistakes. You'll just get better at playing things badly.
Before you know it you'll not be looking at your guitar at all for your set. Hell, you won't even be thinking about playing, it'll just flow. Thus freeing you up to scope the crowd for the hotties ;)
Warning, babbling here.
I figure it will happen when it happens. The more I practice the better I get but I'm not willing to play 2 or 3 hours a day just so I don't have to look at my fretboard sooner. For some parts I don't need to so I practice looking straight ahead and around while singing for those parts but when I'm sliding all over the neck kind of fast, especially on the high frets it's really easy to be half an inch off and fuck up.
I always go for a tight mistake free run through each time. On my own I'll play harder parts over and over to get them down but during band practice I just make a mental note of mistakes or sloppy parts.
With regards to my technique on guitar I'm probably only about where the average teenager is after playing for a year. Through my 20s I mainly just fooled around with guitars and basses, not actually writing any songs. Only over the last few years have I gotten more serious about playing and writing. I have wrist problems and in the past I used to usually play sitting down and I'd start falling asleep after a few minutes. I was a loser through most of my 20s. Hated my job, major anxiety issues, scatter brained, etc.. over most of that now thankfully. I should do hard fretboard and picking exercises daily but I still HATE that type of stuff. I'd rather play our songs over and over as boring as that usually is. Not a good approach I know. Tuning down to B on shitty guitars and not having low action doesn't help. I can't stand fret buzz.
Poor baby right? ;D
Ah man, I feel you, drilling scales and arpeggios and the like is dull but the benefits are huge. It's worth it if you can get yourself in to it.
Smash em out to a click and you can at least measure speed progress. Give you something tangible to aim for.
I don't know how far you've looked in to it and I know Theory is not for everyone, but I'd definitely suggest taking a basic look at scales & chords and their relationships. You don't have to go too deep but basic stuff like relative Majors and Minors and scale degrees etc will really open things up for you and I bet you'd get more in to the scales etc.
Once you look at how chords are constructed you can also throw away all the crap! If you look at an A Major Barre chord, you have (from 6th string up to first) Your Root A note on 6th string, E on 5th, A on 4th, C# on 3rd, E on 2nd and another A on the 1st. I tend to throw out all the octave notes so I'm just playing the Root, the E on 5th and the C# on 3rd string. Often a much more desirable sound when you're tuned down and playing thru a ton of fuzz and you still have the three important notes in there.
Damn man, rambling here, but yeah, if it's something you're in to, delve a little deeper, I promise you won't regret it!
My wrist hates real chords >:( :-[
But I should study them more. I know the "blues box" and know the extra notes to add to it to make it sound more metal when I want that. Mostly I ignore all that when I'm writing riffs and just write what feels good but I do use the limited theory I know about fifths and octaves and what not when needed. Writing riffs is the one thing I think I am good at so I've got that at least.
Quote from: liquidsmoke on November 17, 2012, 03:16:18 PM
Mostly I ignore all that when I'm writing riffs and just write what feels good but I do use the limited theory I know about fifths and octaves and what not when needed. Writing riffs is the one thing I think I am good at so I've got that at least.
That's the one man, if it feels good and sounds good then it is good. The route you took to get there doesn't matter at the end of the day.
^ Yup.
Got the red light bulb set up. It looks cool and I can just barely see enough. Win win.
Quote from: Baltar on November 17, 2012, 10:54:01 AM
Quote from: Pissy on November 17, 2012, 09:49:53 AM
I have an MXR Carbon Copy that has a bright blue LED on it that it way too bright. I put some blue masking tape over it so that it didn't blind me, I can certainly still see the light as it shines right through, but it isn't as harsh anymore. I can't imagine staring at a whole pedalboard full of those things. That would drive me nuts.
I do whatever my pedals tell me to do...
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/bren1973/Nov62012.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/bren1973/Pedalboardindark003.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/bren1973/Pedalboardindark002.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/bren1973/Pedalboardindark001.jpg)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Chiprocks1/DVD%20Covers%2002/Close%20Encounters%20Of%20The%20Third%20Kind/CloseEncountersOfTheThirdKind.jpg)
Just coughed beer into my sinuses. :D
As a player, most of what I would say has already been well covered. Have your shit together as much as possible, don't play too long, don't get hammered before or during the show. One thing I will add: guitar players who play relatively loud amps, maybe a cranked non-master volume amp... Have a way to get the amount of saturation that you want at a lower volume, for those times when the soundguy asks you to turn down.
As a sound engineer, I'm willing to work with almost anything. A lot of soundguys aren't though. Some are downright dicks, for no apparent reason. So some of what's below won't always apply. That being said, I'll add these:
1) Ask the venue people where to park. Don't get towed.
2) Start and stop your set on time. This may not be the case elsewhere, but where I work, if it's a 9-9:30 slot, a mediocre band that is onstage ready to go at 8:59 and hits the last note at 9:30 has a good chance of being asked back. A kick-ass band that is still tuning up at 9:08 and is still playing at 9:41 will likely not get asked back. Especially if they dick around between songs.
3) A slight but not huge lead boost is a great thing.
4) If a guitar flips between clean and dirty sounds, make sure the dirty is slightly louder than the clean. It will have more impact. And clean cuts like a knife. I'll refrain from quoting a Bryan Adams song, lest I get smited a bunch.
5) Asking something to be double miked will usually draw a frown from a sound engineer. If there's good reason for it, like running stereo cabs and fx or splitting to a clean amp and a dirty amp, then ok. Might be best though not to ask for a single Marshall 4x12 to be double miked "for some added thickness".
6) Bring the things you need to actually play. This sounds elementary, but many times I've seen a guitar/bass player show up without a 1/4" cable or pedal power supply or an IEC cable.. Drummer with no sticks, DJ with no RCA cables. Seems silly, but it happens. I guess this falls under "just have your shit together".
7) Don't leave trash all over the stage when your set is done. Empty cups, beer bottles, set lists.. it's appreciated when the band takes that stuff with them when they clear the stage.
8.) Don't just plug an amp into the first AC box you see. You never know what else is on that circuit. Ask the soundguy where to go for amp power.
9) Singers that bring their own mic will almost always be welcome as long as it is of decent quality. A 58 is the safest bet here. A Beta, a Sennheiser or an Audix, or a plain ol' 57: also probably fine. A radio shack mic with cable attached, a Behringer with a switch, a mic other than a vocal mic (it happens).. not as fine, but I'll try to make it work. Also, just for hygiene it's a good idea to use your own vocal mic.
10) In my experience, vocal processors usually don't sound very good in a live setting. Singers tend to juice things up enough so they can really hear the effect. Usually that's a bit too much in the mix. Also, these processors tend to alter the tone in a way that makes it difficult to get good volume from the mic without any feedback. If reverb and delay are an important part of the vocal performance, then having one handy is not a bad idea, but if you're in a club with decent fx and a sound engineer that is willing to use them, I'd leave the vocal processor in the van.
11) I like loud amps. I prefer guitar and bass amp stage volume and mixing in drums, keys and vocals in the PA, with maybe a touch of guitar presence. A lot of other sound engineers aren't like this, and will act like you've just sucker punched their mother when you first crank up an amp. Probably best not to plan on running your amp super loud unless it's part of the gimmick (Jucifer, Jackyl), or you're in a bar with no PA (or no sober or caring sound guy.... or if it's "the last time we'll ever play this shit hole so let's tear some eardrums and test their pain threshold.")
I have wanted so bad to enact that last bit there, but we've never had the chance :) Maybe one day. Anyway, I hope this helps some.