...some might call it an amp
http://musiciansfriend.com/stupid (http://musiciansfriend.com/stupid)
;) Right? you might as well buy a bunch of those and do your own thing with it.
And why the name Windsor? It ain't a fucking car. Looking at the specs though, I want one.
Also hemi, I keep forgetting but your gonna get your teletalk. Maybe not today maybe not tommorow, But definitely after I go to court. why is weed still a crime?
thats incredible. what was the final verdict on these? all i remember about em is hearing the hype right before they came out and then....nothing afterwards.
They sound good, Peavey cheaped a bit on some stuff that seems pointless to have cheaped, but they sound very Marshally.
Quote from: SpaceTrucker on October 13, 2011, 06:51:36 AM
Also hemi, I keep forgetting but your gonna get your teletalk. Maybe not today maybe not tommorow, But definitely after I go to court. why is weed still a crime?
I've got this Crate to tear into first, so I won't be standing to buy the Windsor, but I can put the Crate aside when the teletalk arrives.
Quote from: Chovie D on October 13, 2011, 12:31:53 PM
thats incredible. what was the final verdict on these? all i remember about em is hearing the hype right before they came out and then....nothing afterwards.
Stories of unreliability on the road confirmed my pessimism. Others might well have had good experiences with 'em, YMMV, etc.
I thought they phased these out a while back? Maybe these are the last stragglers?
I heard that too, though they were just phasing out the 100W heads, and leaving the combos. Then it didn't seem to happen. Maybe now it's happening. From their website, they seem to have a 15W Windsor combo, and a straight and slant 4x12 Windsor cab, and no head :o
On their own they have a couple of problems, like someone mentioned, but as I recall they were easy fixes, I'd need to have one on the bench to remind myself what they were though.
shit is not worth your time
there must be seomething horribly wrong with em....
when these first came out everyone was so excited to be able to get an affordable 100watt marshall-esque head. I thought they would sell a billion of these. people were sayng they were gonna buy2-3 as backup amps and crazy ass shit like that..then they came out and there was nothing but silence and the occasional "tyhey are alright" comment. when asked about.
depends how you value your time?
look at the Sunn Beta, breaks down every six months, people still love it ;D
I'm not a fan of PCB's, especially the modern idea where the tubes, and pots live on PCB's, I was OK with using a PCB instead of a turret board, but I digress.
If you spend $250 on an amp, maybe $60-100 in bench fees to tighten it up, and another $90 if you desire on a retube, not a bad deal. If you do your own tech'ing a very good deal.
I'm thinking of making a preamp rebuild service. I can rebuild peoples preamps to the spec. of their choice (within reason) charge for the parts and shipping and a flat fee for the work / utilities, so say parts & shipping & $100 or so. Tear out the PCB, drop in some valve sockets, and an eylet or turret board (with new resistors, caps, jacks and pots if necessary) and ship it back. I think the shipping would be the big cost, how much does an amp cost to ship?
For those who want to DIY, I know ceriatone (http://ceriatone.com/) sell assembled boards around the $100, that you need to add pots, jacks, and power supply caps to.
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 04:27:35 PM
depends how you value your time?
look at the Sunn Beta, breaks down every six months, people still love it ;D
I'm not a fan of PCB's, especially the modern idea where the tubes, and pots live on PCB's, I was OK with using a PCB instead of a turret board, but I digress.
If you spend $250 on an amp, maybe $60-100 in bench fees to tighten it up, and another $90 if you desire on a retube, not a bad deal. If you do your own tech'ing a very good deal.
I'm thinking of making a preamp rebuild service. I can rebuild peoples preamps to the spec. of their choice (within reason) charge for the parts and shipping and a flat fee for the work / utilities, so say parts & shipping & $100 or so. Tear out the PCB, drop in some valve sockets, and an eylet or turret board (with new resistors, caps, jacks and pots if necessary) and ship it back. I think the shipping would be the big cost, how much does an amp cost to ship?
For those who want to DIY, I know ceriatone (http://ceriatone.com/) sell assembled boards around the $100, that you need to add pots, jacks, and power supply caps to.
With full insurance, shipping is 75 to 100 bucks. PCB is fine, if layed out nicely (bitchy to resolder of course), like Soldanos which have really nice PCBs
Trannies on those things are pretty crappy, cheapest supply caps, coupling caps, cathode caps. Underrated resistors or just barely their resistors. For all that work you could have built a more exspensive but in the long run bullet proof PTP amp (or even a well done PCB amp)
Yeah, but we're musicians, we're dirt-poor, us part-timers even poorer ;D
I love the idea of building a full-on amp, some massive transformers and a KT-88 section, I can't afford the $300 or so for a set of crappy transformers nevermind the $600 or so for a decent set. I haven't seen MC offer a 200W or 300W set, so it's either Weber for cheap, or Hammond for middle or Mercury for expensive. Maybe if I transform enough other peoples amps, I can afford my own.
I like the sleeper amps, of all kinds, cheap amps that can be made to work robustly or an amp that looks like a Peavey but sounds like a Orange (albeit an Orange with cheaper iron). I'm the kind of guy that would drop a small block chevy into a Reliant Robin, just for laughs ;D
I'm a confirmed tinkerer, no interest in running a business, call me a shade-tree tech.
the Robin is the 3 wheeler, the Kitten is the 4.
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 04:57:26 PM
Yeah, but we're musicians, we're dirt-poor, us part-timers even poorer ;D
I love the idea of building a full-on amp, some massive transformers and a KT-88 section, I can't afford the $300 or so for a set of crappy transformers nevermind the $600 or so for a decent set. I haven't seen MC offer a 200W or 300W set, so it's either Weber for cheap, or Hammond for middle or Mercury for expensive. Maybe if I transform enough other peoples amps, I can afford my own.
I like the sleeper amps, of all kinds, cheap amps that can be made to work robustly or an amp that looks like a Peavey but sounds like a Orange (albeit an Orange with cheaper iron). I'm the kind of guy that would drop a small block chevy into a Reliant Robin, just for laughs ;D
I'm a confirmed tinkerer, no interest in running a business, call me a shade-tree tech.
2xKt88 or 4xKT88?
You can get Dynaco 2xKt88 repo trannies for ~300 (including the shipping), by far and large the best for the kind of stuff we play. Sunn Amps built in the 60s used those iron, and they are boss. Mercs are overpriced, and you do not see the kind of performance gains the 3x cost would suggest. I almost never use Mercs in my stuff because Heyboer and Hammond are just as good and much cheaper. FYI Heyboer winds customs stuff for fairly cheap, 300 for a set of Iron (PT,OT, and Choke)
I just used those Dynaco Repo sets on Core9s Amp. Worth the bang. You just need a well designed power supply (1KV rated, 50uF min plate and screen IMO)
I just bought a set of 4xKT88 dynaco based PT and OT set for 300 bucks (no shipping as I am close to supplier) 560 B+ 10A of heater current, recto filament line, with bias tap 2. A nice choke will run you like 20 to 30 bucks. Thats not awful.
Heres a pic of the hifi amp that uses them
(http://www.tubes4hifi.com/M-125%20rear_1024.jpg)
4xKT88 (120W of clean power, rated up to 240W of guitar type power)
So you know the next question is whose the supplier? I still have to get my cedist account sorted if I can. ;D
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 05:08:55 PM
So you know the next question is whose the supplier? I still have to get my cedist account sorted if I can. ;D
those are market prices, i dont get vendor discount
I got the 2xKt88 trannies from Triode Store,
http://store.triodestore.com/a4dyoutr43oh.html
http://store.triodestore.com/mq782.html
If you need 4xKT88 please email me as I would have to setup the transaction
As mentioned b4 I can pass my direct prices on from CEDist to you 2, save you money on all those nice caps and mil spec pots ( i get ~8 bucks per 2W mill spec pot)
i suggest building up the parts to build a really nice PTP amp over time. If you need a hand in a design, just send me an email Ill be more than happy to come up with a killer design for you, free of any charge, even take a crack at any of the build I have done before. Nothing sacred about them
I need a tube hookup, My Model T is in dire need.
Quote from: dunwichamps on October 13, 2011, 05:11:20 PM
If you need 4xKT88 please email me as I would have to setup the transaction
Sounds kind of shady to me.
Quote from: SunnO))) on October 13, 2011, 06:41:02 PM
I need a tube hookup, My Model T is in dire need.
wat ya need? 6550?
JJ 120$ for a quad about 10 bucks off TubeDepot price
Tung Sol 120$ (20 bucks off TD)
Others I can get much rebate off them. All CE can get me
Shipping is a little costly tho, TD may end up being cheaper if you factor in shipping costs. Better to order a ton of shit then just tubes if your aiming to be cost effective
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 07:11:03 PM
Quote from: dunwichamps on October 13, 2011, 05:11:20 PM
If you need 4xKT88 please email me as I would have to setup the transaction
Sounds kind of shady to me.
Cant buy them on the internet I have to actually travel to the supplier in Mass and need to email him ahead of time to see when they are available.
Nothing shady persay You just cant get them without going through me at the moment unlike the 120W set of iron
Quote from: dunwichamps on October 13, 2011, 07:18:07 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 07:11:03 PM
Quote from: dunwichamps on October 13, 2011, 05:11:20 PM
If you need 4xKT88 please email me as I would have to setup the transaction
Sounds kind of shady to me.
Cant buy them on the internet I have to actually travel to the supplier in Mass and need to email him ahead of time to see when they are available.
Nothing shady persay You just cant get them without going through me at the moment unlike the 120W set of iron
But if you can get 300W iron, for the price of 120W iron, why not always get the 300W iron, that way you always get the extra core of the original oranges, but of course you lose the lowest impedance setting on the coil, or in other words you double the values of the output taps running with just two tubes. That also makes your other supplier happy as he's getting more orders.
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 07:43:03 PM
Quote from: dunwichamps on October 13, 2011, 07:18:07 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 07:11:03 PM
Quote from: dunwichamps on October 13, 2011, 05:11:20 PM
If you need 4xKT88 please email me as I would have to setup the transaction
Sounds kind of shady to me.
Cant buy them on the internet I have to actually travel to the supplier in Mass and need to email him ahead of time to see when they are available.
Nothing shady persay You just cant get them without going through me at the moment unlike the 120W set of iron
But if you can get 300W iron, for the price of 120W iron, why not always get the 300W iron, that way you always get the extra core of the original oranges, but of course you lose the lowest impedance setting on the coil, or in other words you double the values of the output taps running with just two tubes. That also makes your other supplier happy as he's getting more orders.
thats a good point but I just got the first batches in now, before I didnt have access to them until I found a supplier. There is not a lot of 4xKT88 transformer sets on the market in general. Triode doesnt supply a 240W OT or PT. This new set is little more expensive than the 120W iron, 160 per OT (PT and OT not the same price for 4xKT88 setup). I also cant get a huge discount on prices if I dont buy a lot at a time, which is not exactly doable because I do custom work with a very small overhead
I guess it depends on how you do things, if you can use the same set for multiple amps, then it may be easier to just order all the same set, and get your discount. Adjust the output impedances to suit, if it's a custom wind for you, get a 2 ohm tap, so that you can always have a 4 ohm tap when using it with pairs of KT's or quads of EL34 that kind of thing.
Yes, multi amps and different output tubes poses a problem. As of right now the 120W irons work awesome so once I experiment with the 240Ws I get a better feel but in the mean time if you want to grab a pair just let me know. I dont even know what exactly your setup would be, (bass or guitar). I dig the money thing, its all fuckin exspensive and a solid setup will put you into 1200 in parts if you go all out and get top of the line shit
So are you getting the 120's and the 240's from the same guy, or are you buying a set from Triode for now, and suddenly discovered this new guy.
It's all turns ratios and reflected impedance, most tubes have an optimum spec, which is rarely what they are run at, you see generic replacement Marshall transformers running from about 1900 ohm up to 2500 ohm they're all going to work about the same. Anyways grandmother eggs suck, y'know ;D
Whilst we're on the subject of generics, what's the cheapest 100W set you've found, and where at? I see $155 from Weber, and $163 from Triode, can that be beat?
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 09:05:17 PM
So are you getting the 120's and the 240's from the same guy, or are you buying a set from Triode for now, and suddenly discovered this new guy.
It's all turns ratios and reflected impedance, most tubes have an optimum spec, which is rarely what they are run at, you see generic replacement Marshall transformers running from about 1900 ohm up to 2500 ohm they're all going to work about the same. Anyways grandmother eggs suck, y'know ;D
Whilst we're on the subject of generics, what's the cheapest 100W set you've found, and where at? I see $155 from Weber, and $163 from Triode, can that be beat?
I was buying 120W from Triode, found this guy 2 weeks ago. Got an order for a test set this week.
1.9K to 2.5K isnt too far off, Hammonds run at 1.7k for their JMP/800 clones. 88s are better higher I have found, I ran them at 1.9k and at 4.3k (current impedance) and I like the 4.3k better
I can get CEDistribution's Magnetic Comps JMP 100W for $135 for PT and OT + a $17 choke gives you 152 (user a weber choke and u can get it for 147)
I can get Hammond JMP 100W PT for 86.4$ (their OT is much more expensive about 100 bucks)
BTW Triodes PT will give you about 100 more plate volts than a normal Marshall Repo.
Hmm, the Triode bundle comes with Choke, so it's not far off, $11. I guess the advantage of CE is you can get it all in one place, or the other passives are cheaper, what are they like for axial poly caps, you know the Mallory knock-offs? We used to get ours from Illinois, those lovely yellow ones. I see they have them too. I'm ticked because I ordered the wrong type from Weber, and ended up with orange drop style radials rather than mallory style axials.
Well you can check the tube curves, or if you look at the older sheets, they tend to be a lot more handy about their examples. Like with an 11K plate impedance you can pull 100W out of a pair of EL34's run at 800V, if you look at the spec for the MM HD-130 xfmr, it's 5.5K plate (two pair) and running at 725V or thereabouts. So you have Marshall running them at 1900 and a low plate voltage and MM at 5500 with about 70-80% higher plate voltage. With that much wiggle room, it's not too hard to get your tubes within operating range, especially if you have multiple taps on your PT.
yea u can get mallory 150s, OD 716ps, or cheaper caps
This is all very educational, because I'm googling most of this and making sense of it.
Is it just me, or did eurotubes lower their prices? Last time I checked, a quad of KT88s was 180 bucks... 6550s were 160? They're 148/140 respectively now, even still, any discount is a good discount...
I imagine it's based on the strength of the dollar, seeing as JJ are European.
We're not talking Greek y'know, well except when we start on about ohms ;D
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 10:03:21 PM
I imagine it's based on the strength of the dollar, seeing as JJ are European.
We're not talking Greek y'know, well except when we start on about ohms ;D
Just googling words I don't know, shut up. I have to learn somehow.
Soon as I pay off my gun, I'm buying tubes.
Hey, I was just bein' funny. Maybe you should append all the words you've had to lookup in Tech-Talk, or another thread?
save yourself some money. ;)
Chap's website is here. (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://paillard.claude.free.fr/&langpair=fr%257Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
glad ur all enjoying this
Nice to have someone else to geek out with. ;D
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 10:38:02 PM
Nice to have someone else to geek out with. ;D
whats your dream design anyways?
Got a half chub off those clips. I dig this discussion, but you guys are making me want another amp I don't need. :-[
which begs the question, how many amps do you already have that you don't need. ;D
my ideal design is a little in flux, after I saw Sunn's 2nd gen Model T, but it's a single channel with a quad of KT-88's and yes it's for bass.
nevermind blowing your own tubes, I'd rather wind my own xfmrs. where to get bobbins, laminates etc?? wonder if it would be easier to wind toroids, single core and two gauges of wire. toroids are meant to be quieter and lighter, but I think the cores make them more expensive?
You really want me to take some serious pictures of that fucker's guts? I've got my brother's thousand dollar camera, I may be able to get some legit shots of it.
I'm really thinking once it's retubed and recapped, it'll do exactly what I want...
No, I'm not trying to clone it, I'm just curious as to how it's built. How many of those little tag boards did it use, I was considering doing a scramble build, but the more I think about it, it's probably more difficult to mount several little tagboards around the chassis, than one turret/eylet board in the middle of it. How are they mounted are they soldered to ground, that kind of thing was what I was curious about.
You dont mean the reissue crap Sunn"s Fender made?
I just got off the phone with a guy who wants a 4xKT88 clean channel amp for pedals.
The original Model Ts are very similar a SuperBass or a Fender Bassman circuit, its pretty much the same architecture with 6550s instead of EL34s or 6L6s and a larger plate voltage. Fairly clippy amp if your going for a clean bass route but not bad if your going for a more fuzzed compressed bass kinda thing.
4xKT88 with Dynaco esque OT running UL taps is probably the best PA, I would use a long tail pair designed for bass with possibly a 12au7 instead of a 12ax7 for maximum headroom their and maximum drive to the power tubes.
I would avoid tag strips and go with a custom build Turret layout, its a lot easier to work it that way. I have done both and making ur own layout to avoid noise and optimize the grounding scheme for a sweet amp is better than following an old design.
Nope, the in between Sunn's. Like I said, not cloning it, but it gave me an idea.
It's always fun to try new things, but I wouldn't do it for the ultimate amp, but anyroads it looks like too much of a bugger to get all those little tags mounted. I might use something like the Vox tag strips. I worked on a friends bass amp, I think it was a Gretsch, twin tube amps in the base of it, it was multi-tagged, it was odd to work on, bit hard to follow.
(https://taweber.powweb.com/store/fb-v.jpg)
Think this was it
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd129/clamdip1477/open_lrg.jpg)
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 11:01:42 PM
Nope, the in between Sunn's. Like I said, not cloning it, but it gave me an idea.
Do you have a scheme?
I design my turret layouts on Adobe Illustrator, print out mask then drill and mount turrets. Not too exspensive
^^^ very pretty dual amp
Ah in days or yore, I was trained to do it by hand ;) Wish I could still remember how to lace a loom properly, make it all very Harry Joyce. Skills not exercised are sometimes lost. :'(
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 11:39:15 PM
Ah in days or yore, I was trained to do it by hand ;) Wish I could still remember how to lace a loom properly, make it all very Harry Joyce. Skills not exercised are sometimes lost. :'(
Ahh well I love doing with AI, very nice layouts like Core9s amp.
Quote from: Hemisaurus on October 13, 2011, 04:59:54 AM
...some might call it an amp
http://musiciansfriend.com/stupid (http://musiciansfriend.com/stupid)
hemi. today your stupid deal is a neat little M-audio stereo-USB a/d input $60 with pro tools lite bundled. has mic power so \m/sm57\m/ friendly.
edit: otherwise totally lurking this thread...
You're like a week late ;D
I think it was the WIndsor, they're still selling it for $399 probably.