stonerrocklives.com

General Category => Jam Room => Topic started by: bbottom on September 26, 2011, 09:58:05 AM

Title: Question for the people who sing
Post by: bbottom on September 26, 2011, 09:58:05 AM
So I've been the singer/bass player in my last three bands and I've always been curious about something. How loud do sing into the mic?

When I first started singing I almost yelled into the mic where as and now I hardly ever do that and concentrate more on actually singing. I've been trying to let the mic do it's job and not blow my throat out. I'm curious how you guys approach it.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: justinhedrick on September 26, 2011, 11:48:59 AM
Quote from: bbottom on September 26, 2011, 09:58:05 AM
So I've been the singer/bass player in my last three bands and I've always been curious about something. How loud do sing into the mic?

When I first started singing I almost yelled into the mic where as and now I hardly ever do that and concentrate more on actually singing. I've been trying to let the mic do it's job and not blow my throat out. I'm curious how you guys approach it.

i yell into the mic, but i really don't "sing" in my band, as much as "yell".
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: VOLVO))) on September 26, 2011, 11:58:34 AM
I can't sing and play guitar, so I either have to bullshit it by yelling, or I just don't do vocals.

I'm working on it, though. Graveyard/Lo-pan style really tickles my fancy.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: RAGER on September 26, 2011, 12:22:18 PM
I've been told I'm a cross between Jarred Warren and Page Hamilton
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: liquidsmoke on September 26, 2011, 12:54:16 PM
I have my floor monitor amp unit turned up as high as it will go without feedbacking and I can hardly hear myself at all with earplugs during practice so I end up singing louder than I should and it makes my throat sore but my throat is sore half the time anyway from dry air and talking(voicing) at work anyway. From what I hear this is normal and you just have to get used to it. Arg.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Corey Y on September 26, 2011, 02:21:51 PM
I let the PA do the work. It's easier to control (and keep) your voice when you're not straining constantly. Whether I'm actually singing or just yelling/screaming.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: spookstrickland on September 26, 2011, 05:42:33 PM
I liket the feeling of my voice when it is blown out.  It gives me a nice throaty yell and and my crooning is a little more resonate as well. I don't recomend it to everyone but I have done my best to build up my vocal folds over the years slowly to lesten my chances of seriouse damage.  I do prefer a nice loud vocal pa though.  I like it when I can hear myself.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: clockwork green on September 26, 2011, 06:20:00 PM
When screaming, how much of an actual scream is it? Is it like a "my entire body is on fire and I just ran barefoot into a salt and broken glass factory" or is it more controlled? I can't seem to pull off good, guttural, heavy vocals at high volume...my "big" singing voice is actually louder. When I try high volume screams they're actually really "clean" sounding if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: liquidsmoke on September 26, 2011, 11:06:43 PM
Quote from: Corey Y on September 26, 2011, 02:21:51 PM
I let the PA do the work. It's easier to control (and keep) your voice when you're not straining constantly. Whether I'm actually singing or just yelling/screaming.

I have mine as loud as it will go without feedbacking. I could get a more powerful one but it might feedback at the same volume level as well, I have no idea. You can't turn down drum cymbals so everything has to be at least as loud as they are.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Corey Y on September 27, 2011, 12:59:06 PM
I think balancing against the volume of the drums is a good guideline in general. I know a lot of people like to be as loud as possible, and I can dig it, but if you can't hear the drums you're shooting yourself in the foot performance wise. In a world where every show had a great PA and sound guy, guitarists and bassists could be insanely loud. I've seen local bands play with full stacks (or more) with one mic and a shitty PA for vocals and nothing for drums, and it sounds like crap, since the audience couldn't hear the drums (and sometimes not even the amplified vocals) and it was kind of obvious that the band couldn't either.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: eyeprod on September 27, 2011, 07:35:25 PM
I think that in a loud rock band you need to yell pretty loud in to the mic. The reason is that you cant have the mics too hot or else they pick up too much guitar and drums. That's how it seems to work best in my experience, yell really loud.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: liquidsmoke on September 27, 2011, 11:35:53 PM
Quote from: eyeprod on September 27, 2011, 07:35:25 PM
I think that in a loud rock band you need to yell pretty loud in to the mic. The reason is that you cant have the mics too hot or else they pick up too much guitar and drums. That's how it seems to work best in my experience, yell really loud.

Like a lot of rock and heavy metal vocalists I actually sing and I can only sing so loud. If I yelled my vocals would sound completely different and I'm not going for that style.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Mike_Sims on September 28, 2011, 01:27:37 AM
I usually have the PA loud enough to where I can sing "quieter" parts close to the mic and still have them audible, "louder" parts I usually back off a bit from it
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: mawso on September 28, 2011, 04:23:51 AM
I project pretty loud

Mostly because I don't like how I sound when I'm not really going for it.  I know some people can get a good tone without really belting it out, but I can't.

It's a bit of a problem, partly because I'm so much louder in the upper part of my range than the lower.  I try to compensate for it by how close I am to the mic for different bits of the songs, but that can be hard to always remember to do.

Been playing a lot of shows and recording an EP at the same time and my voice gets worn out quite a lot now.  I've been meaning to learn to sing a bit quieter for a while now.  Like, get some proper lessons and shit.  But so far I haven't gotten around to it.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: liquidsmoke on September 28, 2011, 01:34:52 PM
What do you all use for monitors/PAs for vocals? I've been borrowing a friend's powered Behringer unit for over a year and will need to give it back to him or buy it from him at some point but I want more power. I think Behringer lists max power output not RMS but they make a "1260 watt" unit that you can get on ebay new shipped for $450, that is very cheap even if it's only 500 or 600 watts RMS. If I couldn't hear myself through that thing I think in ear monitors would be my last option and I don't want to go that route.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Pundan on September 28, 2011, 01:46:42 PM
I got some spanking new PA-speakers today, but my throat is all fucked up from a cold. Couldn't try them out really, but I believe we're at the top of the volume we'll get to in our jam room. When I'm not concentrating on what I'm doing is when I'm best. Oddly enough I find it easier to do deeper growls in high volume rather than normal singing. I guess that's because of me not being really comfortable yet with my normal singing. I'd like to get more stamina though so I can hold the notes longer, but it's hard when you're riffing around.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: eyeprod on September 29, 2011, 03:48:49 PM
my drummer (who also sings) projects really well. Me, not so much. Last night I turned up the PA and tried it out at practice. Had to situate the PA speakers just right to get a good sound without much bleed. Overall it was nice to have the extra volume and not have to work on projecting so much. My drummer also liked it, especially since we're both out of shape vocally to be really belting it out. It was especially convenient on my tunes where I more or less sing. We didn't practice any, but for my more ruff vocal stuff I think I would definitely have to step back from the mic a little if it was this hot, so I'm not sure how well it would work for us in a loud, live situation.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: jibberish on September 30, 2011, 02:36:08 AM
man, sooo many variables

some people's voices dont open up until they sing loud enough. they have to belt it out. they have to play with mic distance.

some people like FZ i believe mastered the really quiet vocal stuff

some music requires spirited vocals, some requires restraint

then throw in everyone is different and different mics start having an effect on how the singer delivers...etc

my singing is a cross between frank zappa and neil fallon heh
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: liquidsmoke on September 30, 2011, 03:16:05 AM
Ear plugs are my main problem but since I value my hearing I will continue to wear them. I even wear the musician ones that let a lot more sound through and even leave your ears slightly ringing after practice.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: cat shepard on September 30, 2011, 10:49:23 AM
I always had to scream really loud in the early days because all we had was a speaker that we placed over the top of a bucket, if you screamed really loud you could hear it and that just kind of became the way. Later there were PA's and we would turn the master up to unity and structure the gain so that when you screamed it would peak at 0 on the channel and drive it with the channel fader. Lots of problems with decisions leading to all of this stuff being lost in pawn shops trying to re build. Probably keep screaming though real loud.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: jibberish on October 01, 2011, 07:33:33 AM
key: compressor/limiter
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: spookstrickland on October 03, 2011, 06:30:35 PM
Quote from: clockwork green on September 26, 2011, 06:20:00 PM
When screaming, how much of an actual scream is it? Is it like a "my entire body is on fire and I just ran barefoot into a salt and broken glass factory" or is it more controlled? I can't seem to pull off good, guttural, heavy vocals at high volume...my "big" singing voice is actually louder. When I try high volume screams they're actually really "clean" sounding if that makes sense.

It's loud.  I scream like I'm really being hurt. 
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Chovie D on October 03, 2011, 06:38:00 PM
scream singing is controlled. you're not actually screaming
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: VOLVO))) on October 04, 2011, 12:43:02 AM
I can't play guitar and sing at the same time. If I do, it's in rhythm with what I'm playing. I tried tonight, I'm super shy about it...
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: clockwork green on October 04, 2011, 01:44:11 AM
Quote from: SunnO))) on October 04, 2011, 12:43:02 AM
I can't play guitar and sing at the same time. If I do, it's in rhythm with what I'm playing. I tried tonight, I'm super shy about it...
That's the same boat I'm in. I can either sing in the rhythm I'm playing or I can sing long, sustained notes over my playing. I've been working on locking in a basic rhythm and just mumbling nonsense has gotten me a bit better at working on independent singing and playing. My "aggressive" vocals could really use some work, they're much quieter than my big clean vocals.

I'd love to sound like Scott Kelly gargling a thousand angry Wu-Tang killer bees but if Buzzo, Wino and Al (Aloe?) can get by without "screaming" metal vocals then maybe so can I.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Chovie D on October 04, 2011, 09:58:02 AM
try letting the guitar just feed back while you sing the verses and let the bass carry the rythym line...then guitar comes back in for chorus. DYnamic! ;)

Its a cheap trick (no pun intended) but its useful for those complex singing melodies over guitar rythms that are juts too difficult for untalented singers like ourselves.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: VOLVO))) on October 04, 2011, 11:10:40 AM
I've also found that since my amp is screaaaaming loud, I can hammer-on/pull off entire riffs, and it makes it easier to sing over. Our songs have some weird droning rhythms that I can't really sing to.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Chovie D on October 04, 2011, 01:05:56 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on October 04, 2011, 11:10:40 AM
I've also found that since my amp is screaaaaming loud, I can hammer-on/pull off entire riffs, and it makes it easier to sing over. Our songs have some weird droning rhythms that I can't really sing to.

yup
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: liquidsmoke on October 04, 2011, 02:10:26 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on October 04, 2011, 12:43:02 AM
I can't play guitar and sing at the same time. If I do, it's in rhythm with what I'm playing. I tried tonight, I'm super shy about it...

Keep trying dude. I figured it out and I'm a hack at music in general. Every new riff you try to sing over can be a battle, you just have to keep trying over and over and over until you get it. I thought it was impossible at first but eventually it starts to just happen. It helps if you have already mastered the guitar parts.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Metal and Beer on October 04, 2011, 03:37:13 PM
You're getting there quickly mang, just keep doin' it.  In this scene, being able to play well while hollerin' isn't exactly perfected anyway !   :P
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Chovie D on October 04, 2011, 07:13:25 PM
Quote from: liquidsmoke on October 04, 2011, 02:10:26 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on October 04, 2011, 12:43:02 AM
I can't play guitar and sing at the same time. If I do, it's in rhythm with what I'm playing. I tried tonight, I'm super shy about it...

Keep trying dude. I figured it out and I'm a hack at music in general. Every new riff you try to sing over can be a battle, you just have to keep trying over and over and over until you get it. I thought it was impossible at first but eventually it starts to just happen. It helps if you have already mastered the guitar parts.

were all hacks bro, none of us are segovia or have chris cornells pipes.
Be easy on yourselves. Its not about perfection or even getting close to perfection(at least for me). Its about slanging good rock and good rock can be messy and fucked up..thats one of the things I love about it and that makes it interesting to me.

now rock the fuck out!

Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: RacerX on October 04, 2011, 08:57:19 PM
Quote from: Chovie D on October 04, 2011, 07:13:25 PM
Quote from: liquidsmoke on October 04, 2011, 02:10:26 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on October 04, 2011, 12:43:02 AM
I can't play guitar and sing at the same time. If I do, it's in rhythm with what I'm playing. I tried tonight, I'm super shy about it...

Keep trying dude. I figured it out and I'm a hack at music in general. Every new riff you try to sing over can be a battle, you just have to keep trying over and over and over until you get it. I thought it was impossible at first but eventually it starts to just happen. It helps if you have already mastered the guitar parts.

were all hacks bro, none of us are segovia or have chris cornells pipes.
Be easy on yourselves. Its not about perfection or even getting close to perfection(at least for me). Its about slanging good rock and good rock can be messy and fucked up..thats one of the things I love about it and that makes it interesting to me.

now rock the fuck out!



Word.

That said, repetition, repetition, repetition and the resultant muscle memory are the keys to the kingdom.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: spookstrickland on October 04, 2011, 10:04:51 PM
Quote from: Chovie D on October 03, 2011, 06:38:00 PM
scream singing is controlled. you're not actually screaming

I do it both ways, some times nothing conveys the emotion like a real throat shredding scream.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: liquidsmoke on October 05, 2011, 12:52:02 AM
Quote from: Chovie D on October 04, 2011, 07:13:25 PM
Quote from: liquidsmoke on October 04, 2011, 02:10:26 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on October 04, 2011, 12:43:02 AM
I can't play guitar and sing at the same time. If I do, it's in rhythm with what I'm playing. I tried tonight, I'm super shy about it...

Keep trying dude. I figured it out and I'm a hack at music in general. Every new riff you try to sing over can be a battle, you just have to keep trying over and over and over until you get it. I thought it was impossible at first but eventually it starts to just happen. It helps if you have already mastered the guitar parts.

were all hacks bro, none of us are segovia or have chris cornells pipes.
Be easy on yourselves. Its not about perfection or even getting close to perfection(at least for me). Its about slanging good rock and good rock can be messy and fucked up..thats one of the things I love about it and that makes it interesting to me.

now rock the fuck out!





Yeah and I know even Hendrix was sloppy live with his singing. I am going for more of a metal thing inspired by some really amazing clean singers though... if it's done badly or weak it will suck balls. I do my best, if that doesn't cut it I'll try even harder or give it up.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: liquidsmoke on August 18, 2012, 03:59:51 AM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fuck.


My midrange vocal styles suck balls. My lower range singing is mediocre to okay and sometimes maybe even good, I think. I'm changing most of the midrange parts to low parts to save a couple of our songs. Or I'm getting vocal lessons. Fuck.

Singing is fucking hard. Also, fuck.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Soundgardenia on August 18, 2012, 11:55:28 AM
Always always always had a problem with shitty PA's! Granted, I don't really project my voice like I should, but I ruined my throat a couple of times in past bands just because of shitty PA's...
Title: Re: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: VOLVO))) on August 18, 2012, 12:02:00 PM
I just outright can't sing.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Soundgardenia on August 18, 2012, 12:16:38 PM
Maybe I suffer of the same condition and am in denial about it.
I am however, 100% convinced that I can't play guitar for shit, I do it anyway, but I suck at it.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: zachoff on August 18, 2012, 02:28:10 PM
I took some lessons a while back that really helped temper the 'yelling' sort of singing.  My throat was hurting after practice and shows.  I still don't sing pretty but I definitely let the mic do it's job more than I used to.  Oh, and I got a Boss VE-20 and it's awesome.  Added a tiny bit of disto and a couple harmonies to my vocals and I don't have to work quite as hard.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Discö Rice on August 18, 2012, 05:36:43 PM
I really have to ramp up psychologically to sing in front of people. Like a marine charging a fortified bunker knowing he's gonna die - that's the headspace I'm in. If I can't get myself there - choke city.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: liquidsmoke on August 18, 2012, 05:37:04 PM
My throat hurts half the time from singing and just from talking, although I talk for a living so that doesn't help. I try not to strain when I sing but I do somewhat I think.

I suck at guitar as well but I play anyway, mostly power chords. I suck at singing but I sing anyway.

I use my Boss VE-20 for reverb and sometimes delay, nice unit but I don't use the diva type features.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: MichaelZodiac on August 18, 2012, 05:51:43 PM
I gave it up and we found a female singer.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: liquidsmoke on August 18, 2012, 07:07:09 PM
We should just try to find a singer but it would be really hard to find someone that would fit our sound so I'd rather just do it myself even if it's mediocre.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Soundgardenia on August 18, 2012, 07:13:34 PM
It's hard to pull off female vocals in heavier stuff without sounding tacky...
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: MichaelZodiac on August 18, 2012, 07:52:41 PM
I agree with the tackiness of female vocals in heavy music, especially when they go full out with their voice. It can be good but gets boring very easily and then it almost comes across as a parody rather than anything else.

But we're more of heavy psych band anyway. Lots of Hawkwind & Spacemen 3 influences. We told the girl to be a mysterious version of Grace Slick, so far she's nailing it.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: Soundgardenia on August 18, 2012, 07:56:45 PM
Like Huntress.. I hate to say this because usually people perceive this as jealousy (which is not, even thought the chick is indeed hot as fuck), but it sounds tacky tacky tacky!
Acid King pulls it off perfectly though. Bottom could pull it off too but at some point, all of their songs started to sound the same.

Im curious about your sound though! Have any tracks online? Soundcloud?
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: mattcoins on August 20, 2012, 12:05:19 AM
i would say try and let the mic do most of the volume. its hard not to strain yourself when you have a shitty pa, but fuck who wants to cut up your chords. once they have scar tissue there is no healing them. if your throat always hurts try going more towards your diaphragm. if you want to go high pretend there is a pencil in front of your mouth, and go above that. (i have no idea if that makes sense but it helps me). make weird faces, loosen your jaw, make shapes with your mouth.
it might be just one of the most awkward experiences singing in front of people for the first few times. our instruments go through amps/pedals so throw some reverb or delay on your vocals. it's just real weird to hear your voice with nothing on it.
if you're going to record you'll gain a ton of confidence if you're doing it with someone who knows how to record loud music and loud vocals.

but then again i have no idea what i am doing...
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: grimniggzy on August 20, 2012, 09:28:12 AM
scream pretty much all the time. my voice sounds more and more like lemmy after every show.
Title: Re: Question for the people who sing
Post by: liquidsmoke on August 21, 2012, 01:05:56 AM
Moved all of my midrange vocal parts in one of our songs down an octave today at practice and it felt way more natural and easy. Going to stick with that even though it probably makes the song more boring, oh well. I don't have a deep speaking voice but i sing much better in the lower ranges.


Something I've noticed over the last few years: certain words are really hard to sing!