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General Category => Jam Room => Topic started by: apekillman on September 18, 2011, 08:06:29 PM

Title: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: apekillman on September 18, 2011, 08:06:29 PM
so we finally tried out a bass player today.  she was cool and wants do to it.  we are playing in the vein of nails, dystopia, his hero is gone, trap them, rotten sound, et al. 

the question is, what's a good distortion pedal for bass?  i want it to sound fucking retarded sick.  just balls out like the speakers are ready to blow.

we are using a fender jazz into a sunn beta bass in to a emperor 1x18 and sunn 2x15.  i tried a meathead deluxe, meathead (standard), rat, big box eh nyc big muff and a little big muff.  didn't really like anything.  maybe it was because of trying to push the solid state sunn?

any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 18, 2011, 08:13:25 PM
I found the Behringer SF300 (clone of FZ2) sounds good, with a solid state.

There's also the homemade Bazz Fuss http://home-wrecker.com/bazz.html (http://home-wrecker.com/bazz.html) which sounds awesome.

I'm currently using a homemade fuzz, that is a gained up, bassed up Meathead more or less.

What kind of bass sound are you going for, low end rumble or more cutting?
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 18, 2011, 08:23:03 PM
Oh yeah, check out the video on http://bassfuzz.com (http://bassfuzz.com) has video reviews of a bunch of pedals, use headphones, or a decent speaker system on yiur computer when watching them though ;D
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 18, 2011, 08:32:05 PM
Check with Sunn (the chap here, not the company) but that doesn't sound like enough head to power two cabs, it's 100W into 4 ohm, and a 2x15 itself is probably 4 ohm, add in the 18 you might be overloading the amp, and underpowering the cabs?
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: yesca on September 18, 2011, 08:45:19 PM
just crank that fucker up
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: mortlock on September 18, 2011, 08:47:37 PM
you need a usa built dod death metal pedal..

the zvex woolly mamoth rules too..

dont count out a fuzzface either..
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Metal and Beer on September 18, 2011, 09:01:15 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on September 18, 2011, 08:32:05 PM
Check with Sunn (the chap here, not the company) but that doesn't sound like enough head to power two cabs, it's 100W into 4 ohm, and a 2x15 itself is probably 4 ohm, add in the 18 you might be overloading the amp, and underpowering the cabs?

^ I had the same thought ^    I don't think a 100W amp w/ those speaks is gonna get you the mean burly sound you want (you might achieve the grindy buzzsaw tone but not sufficient beef?)
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 18, 2011, 09:03:55 PM
Power amps are amazingly cheap, beta's have a slave out, $200 could get you 700-900W ;)
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Lumpy on September 18, 2011, 09:24:47 PM
You have to start with good sound to begin with. Pedals won't turn a hot dog into a delicious steak. I agree with everybody... look at your amp and cabs first.

Personally, IMHO, you are already on the wrong track with your cabs, but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 18, 2011, 09:50:16 PM
Nope 18 and 2x15 is what I use for practice, but I go with 500W not 100W and 2 ohm capability.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Lumpy on September 18, 2011, 10:00:46 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on September 18, 2011, 09:50:16 PM
Nope 18 and 2x15 is what I use for practice, but I go with 500W not 100W and 2 ohm capability.

Everybody likes different stuff. You like the Peavey 1820 cab (1x18, 2x10). I thought that cab sounded like total poop.

I'm trying to imagine how somebody can make their 18" cab sound like it's about to blow up (original question). First, I would go with 10 inch speakers, instead.

Also, according to speaker nerds at Talk Bass, mixing speaker sizes (mish mosh of cabinets) is not optimal. I'm trying to think of a bass player who sounds great, who has a mixed bag of speaker sizes and manufacturers. Is there anybody?
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: apekillman on September 18, 2011, 10:06:09 PM
hemi, just as i was ready your post about under powering the cabs, i was thinking that very same thing.

i do have a concert slave as well.  i will put that on the 1x18 and run the 2x15 with the beta bass alone. 

that should be at least a little better, i would think.

not quite sure what bass tone we are looking for.  definitely want it to cut through the mix.  maybe like a weedeater but a bit tighter, if that makes sense.  we're not doing bluesy stonery type stuff.  but i like that bass tone.  just super distorted  thick.  but crisp and cutting.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 18, 2011, 10:09:19 PM
Well Dixie uses 2 Concerts and 2 Mesa 2x15's I think. You might want to try it both ways, try the slave on the 2x15 as well.

Lumpy, the 1820 is great, for guitar.

10's don't take much punishment, unless you get a lot of them, and are too hi-middy and squeaky for me. 15's are more balanced, for what I like.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Lumpy on September 18, 2011, 10:12:19 PM
Squeeky?  :D

Quotecrisp and cutting.

Sounds like 10's to me.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 18, 2011, 10:14:12 PM
No, that would be squeaky ;D
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Lumpy on September 18, 2011, 10:24:35 PM
You could try emphasizing the Mids on your amp, as well (EQ). Roll back the Bass some. To be honest, I don't even know if those amps have an EQ section. I guess they do.

If you don't know how to get the sound you want, it's not a bad idea to emulate the people who are getting the sound you want. I've got a feeling they aren't using your current cab combination.

Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 18, 2011, 10:32:52 PM
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2573/3909366349_e5e2d29293_b_d.jpg)
;)

Dixie rolls all the treble off his, put it about midway, probably cut just fine.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Lumpy on September 18, 2011, 10:36:33 PM
Ah, good old EQ. All the modern conveniences.
Title: Re: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: VOLVO))) on September 18, 2011, 10:37:40 PM
The Beta-anything is more than loud enough to do whatever you want.. It gets sufficiently nasty. You mentioned Nails, And Rotten Sound. BOSS HM-2 all dimed out is exactly that tone... cant believe none of you mentioned that shit. Am I the resident grind/death/black metal guy? Goddamn it.

If your beta isnt beefy enough, it has an issue, just sayin'.

sent from Mortlock's mom's laptop...
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 18, 2011, 10:42:32 PM
Two amps AREN'T better than one :o

I think with Meathead, whichever one is the bassiest, if you roll off the volume on the instrument a little it may sound more pleasing, jumping back in the thread a little.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Danny G on September 18, 2011, 11:06:31 PM
I use a Fulltone Bassdrive for boost/some dirt. Used to use a Big Muff Pi clone I tweaked for bass, but cuts too much highs tho tone knob all the way back sounds killer.

Easy to build, cheap to buy. Black Russian Big Muff, tho the cases get weaker and weaker th newer thee model.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Derelict78 on September 18, 2011, 11:34:10 PM
Dwarfcraft Eau Clair Thunder or Hair of the dog
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: giantchris on September 18, 2011, 11:39:41 PM
Tech 21 Bass XXL OD is what I'd use. 
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Ayek on September 19, 2011, 01:31:55 AM
For what it's worth, George Rice used a 4x15" and a 1x18" when he was in High on Fire. Can't think of anyone else who paired 18s and 15s, seems more common to mix either with 10s

edit: I also endorse the Bazz Fuss. I've made two, the last one I included a blend circuit. Works good.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Lumpy on September 19, 2011, 03:29:18 AM
Quote from: Ayek on September 19, 2011, 01:31:55 AM
For what it's worth, George Rice used a 4x15" and a 1x18" when he was in High on Fire. Can't think of anyone else who paired 18s and 15s, seems more common to mix either with 10s

With all due respect, George Rice in High on Fire did not have a good sound. Flabby, indistinct, muddy. Think of the worst "arena size" rock concert bass sound (boomy, bouncing around in the rafters) except it's in a medium sized club. Maybe it wasn't because of his speaker cabs, though, who knows what went wrong there.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 19, 2011, 10:01:51 AM
Quote from: Ayek on September 19, 2011, 01:31:55 AM
For what it's worth, George Rice used a 4x15" and a 1x18" when he was in High on Fire. Can't think of anyone else who paired 18s and 15s, seems more common to mix either with 10s

edit: I also endorse the Bazz Fuss. I've made two, the last one I included a blend circuit. Works good.
What are you using for a blend?
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: justJon on September 19, 2011, 11:16:51 AM
MXR El Grande Bass Fuzz.

Before our bass player quit music, that's what he used.

I don't think the two were related.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Discö Rice on September 19, 2011, 11:34:01 AM
Boss ODB-3.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: VOLVO))) on September 19, 2011, 11:41:24 AM
Quote from: Discö Rice on September 19, 2011, 11:34:01 AM
Boss ODB-3.

Midless piece of shit.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Discö Rice on September 19, 2011, 12:08:25 PM
I know you are but what am I?
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: moose23 on September 19, 2011, 05:58:16 PM
Gonna second the HM2, it will do exactly what you ask. I love fuzz on bass but it doesn't sound like that's what you're after.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: apekillman on September 19, 2011, 06:00:31 PM
i need to check ohmage on the cabs and see how close to 2 i get.  or just run the 2x15 by itself.  i never liked the sound of 10's except for more "rock" sounding real bass tone.  and i guess that's just because i'm used to that sound cuz alot of rock bands use the 10's.  i want a tone that is gnarly and ballsy.  not too flappy.  but kind of tight.  i know that all contradicts each other.

so basically, not a clean punchy tight tone.  but a thick chugging rumble that is almost ready to blow up but is still holding on.
Title: Re: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Metal and Beer on September 19, 2011, 06:31:38 PM
Quote from: SunnO))) on September 18, 2011, 10:37:40 PM
Am I the resident grind/death/black metal guy? Goddamn it.


Ten paces then draw, bucko  ;D
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 19, 2011, 06:49:51 PM
Quote from: apekillman on September 19, 2011, 06:00:31 PM
i need to check ohmage on the cabs and see how close to 2 i get.  or just run the 2x15 by itself.  i never liked the sound of 10's except for more "rock" sounding real bass tone.  and i guess that's just because i'm used to that sound cuz alot of rock bands use the 10's.  i want a tone that is gnarly and ballsy.  not too flappy.  but kind of tight.  i know that all contradicts each other.

so basically, not a clean punchy tight tone.  but a thick chugging rumble that is almost ready to blow up but is still holding on.
Why are you going for two? The problem with running real low impedance is all the losses in the speaker connections get super critical, or to put it another way, you'll lose more iin your cables abd they'll run warmer  ;)
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Discö Rice on September 19, 2011, 06:53:34 PM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on September 19, 2011, 06:49:51 PM
Quote from: apekillman on September 19, 2011, 06:00:31 PM
i need to check ohmage on the cabs and see how close to 2 i get.  or just run the 2x15 by itself.  i never liked the sound of 10's except for more "rock" sounding real bass tone.  and i guess that's just because i'm used to that sound cuz alot of rock bands use the 10's.  i want a tone that is gnarly and ballsy.  not too flappy.  but kind of tight.  i know that all contradicts each other.

so basically, not a clean punchy tight tone.  but a thick chugging rumble that is almost ready to blow up but is still holding on.
Why are you going for two? The problem with running real low impedance is all the losses in the speaker connections get super critical, or to put it another way, you'll lose more iin your cables abd they'll run warmer  ;)
Couldn't you solve that by using ultra thick cables? Like 1/0 gauge?
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 19, 2011, 07:00:06 PM
Well loss is more in the contacts than the cable. Make sure all the jacks are tight and clean. Alcohol swabbing here will help, or the contact cleaner you can get at the hardware store, but yeah no wimpy 18 ga. cabe would also help.

PS Grindcore, I was around in the beginning in the UK, we used whatever shit we could find ;)

Maybe a dumb question, but isn't the 2x15 already 4 ohm? Add on the 18, I'd guess it's 8 ohm and you'll have 2.66666 ohm, still two amps would probably net better results.
Title: Re: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: VOLVO))) on September 19, 2011, 07:04:30 PM
Ill shoot a quick vid of the HM-2and the BetaLead.

sent from Mortlock's mom's laptop...
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: VOLVO))) on September 19, 2011, 08:38:23 PM

Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: grimniggzy on September 19, 2011, 09:09:49 PM
Damn it, now I want both. And I swore my dirt search was over and done with.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 19, 2011, 09:19:36 PM
Checkng the handy cross reference, Behringer make it for $16

(http://images.thomann.de/pics/prod/204415.jpg) (http://www.guitartrader.com/!JQVio-Xp5RE0XlmJy8gMSQ!/Behringer-HM300-Heavy-Metal-Distortion-FX-Pedal-s)


Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: grimniggzy on September 19, 2011, 09:37:21 PM
I thought only one version of the Boss one was even any good, think the Behringer will make the cut?
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: grimniggzy on September 19, 2011, 09:37:50 PM
I guess for $16 it's worth a shot.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: apekillman on September 19, 2011, 09:50:43 PM
hemi,  i only mention 2 ohm cuz that's the recommended lowest to drive the beta head at.  i don't really want tp run it that low and push it real hard.  i think the 18 is actually 6 ohms.  what's the formula to get the ohmage rating on non-same numbers.  i know that two 16's is gonna be an 8, and two 8's woud be a four.  but i'm not sure how to figure out like say a 6 and an 8.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 19, 2011, 09:52:12 PM
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: grimniggzy on September 19, 2011, 09:53:52 PM
I swore Beta's are meant to be run @ 4 or higher.
Yup, here it is...
(http://sunn.ampage.org/site/museum/betabass/Img_0009a.jpg)

The Red Concerts can go down to 2 though, I think.

Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 19, 2011, 09:57:14 PM
A 6, really, that's pretty unusual, that's not just the DC resistance is it?

Anyways, the formula is (r1 * r2) / (r1 + r2) for two impedances in parallel.

For multiple impedances in parallel, it's the reciprocal of the sum of the reciprocals of all the impedances. Which is easier for me to type in English, than make the forum display equations.

So 2.4 ohm  ;D
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: VOLVO))) on September 19, 2011, 10:00:18 PM
Betas do 100@4

Black/white Concerts do 200@2

Silverface Concerts so 150@4

Black/white Coliseums do 320@2

etc etc.

don't run the Beta below 4.

Anything above 4 is golden, and good to go...

That Behringer nails the tone. It's unmistakable.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Hemisaurus on September 19, 2011, 10:06:31 PM
Yeah that actually sounded just like Entombed, I expected the vocals to come in. Mind you I'm listening on an iPad :D

I think we may have just figured out the problem, running the Beta at 2.4 ohm, most of the sound was probably in your cables ;D Cable losses save a lot of people blowing their solid state gear up.
Title: Re: bass fuzz/dist questions / help
Post by: Ayek on September 20, 2011, 06:22:17 AM
Quote from: Hemisaurus on September 19, 2011, 10:01:51 AM
Quote from: Ayek on September 19, 2011, 01:31:55 AM
For what it's worth, George Rice used a 4x15" and a 1x18" when he was in High on Fire. Can't think of anyone else who paired 18s and 15s, seems more common to mix either with 10s

edit: I also endorse the Bazz Fuss. I've made two, the last one I included a blend circuit. Works good.
What are you using for a blend?

This one, though I might've put in a bigger input cap.
(http://moosapotamus.net/THINGS/paraloop/paralooperSCH.gif)

On a side note, I housed it in a big ol tank of a stainless steel enclosure I liberated from an eternity of sitting forgotten on a storeroom shelf some time ago. Was looking through an electronics catalog the other day and saw the same enclosure selling for $110. Shit.