Alright, I've finally got my dream kit. Mapex Orion 24x18/14x14/16x16. Iron Cobras with Danmar wood beaters. Zildijan Rock Ride 21', Rock Crash 17', Medium Crash 20', and a pair of old Zildijan rock hats. So, I've got my big, loud motherfucker of a kit that I can play all the doom, sludge and rock n' roll on. I love this kit, and I'll keep it until I die, but now, since I'm getting back into death metal and what not, I need something I can move a little faster on. (I muffle nothing, on that kit. It's WIDE OPEN.) The Iron Cobras are fucking rad for medium speed, but those danmar beaters probably cut my speed in half, even though I've been rockin' 'em for four years (since I got my first drum kit.)
So, I've been on the search to piece together my "fuck it, I wanna play fast kit." Today, the cards fell in my favor, and someone sold me a 10x8 Maple Gretsch tom, and a 14x12 Maple Gretsch floor tom for 75 bucks. I've got a bunch of extra hardware from my days of hoarding. All I'm really missing is a super poppy snare, a second set of smaller cymbals, and a kick drum. I'm going to go small. 16-18 small. I'm most likely going to have to convert a floor tom. Guitar Center has a 16x16 and a 16x18 set of vistalite toms for a hundred bucks a piece. I don't know if I want to mix maple and lucite, unless that 18 sounds like thunder. I dunno, opinions?
Instead of constantly having to tear apart the hardware and cymbals from my "motherfucker" kit, I'm going to go ahead and pick up some nifty shit from wherever. Pedals? I don't really want another set of Iron Cobras. I noticed that since the death metal craze is wearing off there is a surplus of Axis longboards kicking around for 70-120 bucks a pop. I figure if I buy two of 'em for 140 bucks, and spend the hundred bones on the conversion kit, I can walk away with a pretty kickass quick double pedal. I've got the power to make the fuckers audible unlike a lot of people these days.
13 inch hats are a must, something trashy or super crisp(basically total opposites), probably a 20 inch thin/medium ride, 16 inch thin crash, 18 thin crash to back it up...
Snare, I don't know yet... 13x6-8 would be nice, I think. I want a really loud and audible pop.
This kit will mostly be getting blastbeats and dbeats so... I don't know, I'm just kind of excited for projects.
TALK ABOUT DRUMS, FUCK!
Do you have to use some kind of patch/pad on th bass drum head with th danmar wood beater?
Hellllllll yes! Those things will eat through heads in a heartbeat!
One problem you may encounter with a converted floor tom for a "speed" kit is the depth. 16" -18" will give you a slower pneumatic rebound off the front head (assuming you leave it esentially intact, maybe a small hole for a mic, etc.)
a 20"x14" kick is probaly ideal for what you're gonna do. Personally, I'd pass on those vistalite toms, unless you're gonna do an entire kit.
I've been playing a single Axis longboard for a couple years now with my 26"x14" kick, and with the round plastic/rubber beater, not the stupid, fiddly, "sonic hammer" thing, it's got all the power of the Iron Cobra, which it replaced, and probably close to half again the speed, with the same effort. I'd say you're looking in the right direction, there.
A number of years ago, Ihad a pair of Paiste 2002 13" medium hats that were really tight and crisp sounding, very musical, too. I just never really play music that calls for that anymore, and if I do now the 16" "twenty" Medium lights I've got will do anything they did, it's just harder to do it, 'cause they're sooo much bigger.
I was actually going to port the front super large. I don't want to take off the hoop, and have fucking rattly lugs, so I'm gonna port the front end almost the full diameter of the tom. That way I can take out/put in muffling. I'm leaning towards the 18 simply because they make an Emad for it. Jon sold me on the longboards, if you can play them, and not destroy them, I can play them, hahaha. This is rad.
As for hats, I can't really decide. I've found that I like thinner/trashier sounding hats for faster shit, but heavier hats for slower shit. So... I dunno, it's SO HARD TO CHOOSE WHAT TO SPEND MY MONEY ON
Quote from: SunnO))) on June 03, 2011, 01:58:24 PM
Jon sold me on the longboards, if you can play them, and not destroy them, I can play them, hahaha.
Heh, I've said that before, myself. We played a Hendrix Tribute show last winter that was supposed to be backlined, but, at the last minute, the host band's drummer decided he didn't want anybody else banging on his brand-new kit. I volunteered mine, and when their guitarist said, "Are you sure?" I told him, "Absolutely! If I haven't broken it yet, none of those guys are going to!"
I see where you're going with the full-size front port. After playing for longer than I can remember with a full front head, I cut the middle out of an old pinstripe I had lying around, to use at an outdoor show (that turned out to be indoors, anyway, but....) I've got just one little strip of foam rubber, about a foot long,six inches wide, just touching the batter head. Sounds great, but I'll probably go back to the full front head. It's just what I'm used to.
I can't say I understand this choice. I play big drums and can get damn fast when I need to. It just takes practice. You should work on your technique instead of buying new drums. May I suggest Jojo Mayer's "Secret Weapons for the Modern Drummer" video? There are some really amazing insights into blazing speed that at this fairly early stage in your development as a drummer would make you a fucking monster - and you don't need tiny drums to get there.
If you do want to take a shortcut, it's true smaller, shallower drums will get you a slight edge, but your peak will be based solely on external factors.
As for the pedal, I can't speak for the longboards, but I did at one time have an Axis A2 double pedal, and as I've mentioned a few times on this board, it was among the worst products I've ever purchased. I went from glorious volume and punch with my DW 5000 to a weak, silly sounding bottom end with my Axis. Yes the Axis was faster, but it didn't matter because it didn't cut the mustard power-wise. Also, it fell apart on stage, mid-song, mid long double bass run, at three consecutive shows. (If you want I'll go into detail about the design flaws, but I'll sum it up with this - nothing should ever have to be glued in place on a god damned bass drum pedal. Ever.) I sold it and bought the more sluggish, better made, better sounding DW 9002 after that.
Unhappy with the laggy DW pedals (even though they sounded great), I tried Trick's "Bigfoot" longboard direct drive pedals. They're built like nothing else on the market. Wanna adjust your tension? Turn a knob. That's it. No fucking around with nuts and springs. You don't even have to take the pedal off the drum or pick it up. The compression spring will fucking smoke any other design on the market. Nothing cycles faster. Lastly, this thing delivers power at those ridiculous speeds that would make any DW player jump up and slap his mama. The only thing I would recommend is changing the stock beaters. They're super light (titanium beater shafts, super light weight aircraft aluminum beater heads with optional felt pads), and even though I like playing at stupid speeds, I prefer a little extra oomph in my bottom end, even if it means sacrificing a few bpm. Those Danmar wood beaters would be perfect.
It's not necessarily the "I can play faster" factor, It's the "I can play faster and still make out every little note." I just want something different, it's not like I'm getting rid of the others. It's just my big-fucking-bomb drop kit, and I love it, but would like something I could play in a punk band without drowning everybody else out?
Quote from: SunnO))) on June 04, 2011, 03:50:23 PM
It's not necessarily the "I can play faster" factor, It's the "I can play faster and still make out every little note." I just want something different, it's not like I'm getting rid of the others. It's just my big-fucking-bomb drop kit, and I love it, but would like something I could play in a punk band without drowning everybody else out?
Unless they're playing Pignoses your bandmates in your punk band should be fine. If it's definition you're looking for, maybe try some different heads. They change your sound dramatically, and they're a hell of a lot cheaper than new drums. I don't know what you're using now, but any 2ply clear head would focus the fundamental and shorten the sustain (read: deep and punchy). MoonGels can dry them out further if desired.
Those are pretty normal sized drums you have. I'd say perfect for the range of stuff you're doing. If you're not happy with it, by all means get something else, but don't sell your kit short. They're nice drums and there's a world of sounds to explore with what you already have.
If anything, you may want to consider smaller cymbals. THEY are what's going to drown out the guitars for you. (but again, what you already have is perfect as far as I'm concerned, and a good excuse for you to sell them better amps ;) )
i love how my kit sounds, i dont wanna change it. New drums! Shut up, hahha. Im mixing and matching, looks dont matter. Already got the toms for 75 bucks...
Haha alright I'm done preaching. Maybe.
Yeah, he's got the sickness. No stopping him now - gotta buy something!
I also want something that I can put in my band mate's car, so I don't have to drive EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I bought the stands, yesterday, they're pretty rad. A nice Sonor hi-hat stand. Cymbals/kick drum/snare is all I need, now. 18 inch maple toms are hard to find. I may go with 16 out of laziness, and when I happen across a nice 18 incher, I use the 16 as a backup/aux kick.
I feel like I want thinner cymbals, because I'm not going to be playing with my usual miniature baseball bats, most likely 5As or 7A's depending on how not-loud this band is going to be. Should be a blast.
All I know about drums right now is that new heads make a world of difference sound-wise, and I just bought a really loud snare (Pork Pie Curly Maple). My 24" bass drum no longer sounds like shit, and I'm not using my bandmates' crusty, sweaty, bloody snare with a duct taped, rippled, stinking, head on it. Yay! Also, I think 5B drumsticks are too big for my hands...*sigh*
What? I'm a guitarist damnit.
Im a guitarist, too, girlfriend. I just happen to have ape hands.. ;D how do you like that snare? Pork pie makes some boss equipment.
Haha I use 2S's. This younger generation is soft. ;)
Pork Pie is making their own version of a Black Beauty now. Haven't heard it but I bet you it sounds tight.
Was talking to a recording engineer friend of mine the other day saying one of the best kick drums he's ever recorded was a 20x14. I know a few dudes who play 20" and swear by em'.
If it's all the same to you I think I'll just swear at the 20" kick drums rather than by them.
Quote from: Discö Fistö on June 06, 2011, 08:51:08 PM
Haha I use 2S's. This younger generation is soft. ;)
I only use 2Bs or rock but I hold them by the pointy ends like Bill Ward. I feel like the stick does more work that way and it saves my arms a bit. Plus you can bash the shit out of the motherfuckers. I have learned proper technique for the cymbals so I don't break 'em but my snare is in a constant world of pain, esp. once I've had a few beers. My left hand doesn't do shit during my day to day so when I set it lose, it parties like it means it.
(http://www.kalamu.com/bol/wp-content/content/images/jack%20dejohnette%2002.jpg)
Quote from: SunnO))) on June 06, 2011, 07:06:37 PM
Im a guitarist, too, girlfriend. I just happen to have ape hands.. ;D how do you like that snare? Pork pie makes some boss equipment.
It was the loudest one at GC, and I got a deal because it was the floor model and I bugged the dude about it...and of course it just happens to match my drum kit. $30+ for a Remo pinstripe bass head=major sound improvement, new tom heads are next.
Heads! What brand of heads are you all using? Mine are as follows:
(Tama Artstar II 9 ply Canadian Maple)
Snare: (14"x14")
Batter: Evans Genera HD Dry
Resonant: Evans Hazy 300 (thinking of switching to Glass 500)
Rack Tom: (16"x16")
Batter: Evans EC2
Resonant: Evans Genera Resonant (considering black glass)
Floor Tom: (22"x16")
Batter: Aquarian Superkick 2
Resonant: EMAD Resonant
Kick Drum (22"x32")
Batter: EMAD 2 (w/ Remo Double Falam Slam kevlar impact pad)
Resonant: EMAD Resonant
I'm using Remo black suede Emperors for the batter on the snare and the toms. 8X14 wood Yamaha snare w/ wood rims, 12x14, 16x16 and 16x18 toms, Ludwig 6-ply classic maple. Remo black suede Ambassadors on the resos, Emperor hazy snare side. Remo Powerstroke 4 coated batter on the 14x26 kick, Ambassador fiberskyn on the reso. No muffling, no ports. BoooM!
I like your style Big Papa. Was it you that had that monster Rogers rig?
Who'd have thought it would be difficult to find a good quality maple 16 or 18 inch floor tom? This is dumb. I really want to play this kit.
Quote from: mortlock on June 06, 2011, 10:41:53 PM
(http://www.kalamu.com/bol/wp-content/content/images/jack%20dejohnette%2002.jpg)
Speaking of DeJohnette, his signature stick is badass.
Quote from: Griz on June 11, 2011, 10:34:31 PM
Quote from: mortlock on June 06, 2011, 10:41:53 PM
(http://www.kalamu.com/bol/wp-content/content/images/jack%20dejohnette%2002.jpg)
Speaking of DeJohnette, his signature stick is badass.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l197/BucketsOBlood/pencils.jpg)
hey disco, have any pics of that kit? those are some big ass sizes.
I do, actually.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l197/BucketsOBlood/a-bot.jpg)
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l197/BucketsOBlood/abot-1-1.jpg)
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l197/BucketsOBlood/whee.jpg)
I like to saw blade and broken cymbals.
Quote from: Discö Fistö on June 12, 2011, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: Griz on June 11, 2011, 10:34:31 PM
Quote from: mortlock on June 06, 2011, 10:41:53 PM
(http://www.kalamu.com/bol/wp-content/content/images/jack%20dejohnette%2002.jpg)
Speaking of DeJohnette, his signature stick is badass.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l197/BucketsOBlood/pencils.jpg)
I like pencils. I think even Jack has used a pencil or two in his lifetime.
Found my 18 inch tom. Vintage ludwig. Almost the same finish as my kick drum. I'll probably multi-purpose it...
Quote from: Griz on June 11, 2011, 10:34:31 PM
Quote from: mortlock on June 06, 2011, 10:41:53 PM
(http://www.kalamu.com/bol/wp-content/content/images/jack%20dejohnette%2002.jpg)
Speaking of DeJohnette, his signature stick is badass.
Indeed. If you like that one, try the Vater Stuart Copeland signature. It is a .555 diameter stick (the Jack D is .565, same as the vic firth X5A), but feels a little more solid to me (Vater's hickory seems to be more dense than Vic's). The Pro-Mark 707 (hickory = Simon Phillips sig, white oak = Ed Shaughnessy sig) is similar. The Copeland has an oval bead and the 707 has more of a round bead tip. Both are really good for articulate cymbal work, at least that's why I like them.
Quote from: SunnO))) on June 13, 2011, 12:10:08 AM
Found my 18 inch tom. Vintage ludwig. Almost the same finish as my kick drum. I'll probably multi-purpose it...
I have a Slingerland 18x10 concert tom (single-headed) that I'm going to use as a jungle kick drum. It sounded OK as a floor tom, but I think that it'll function better with an EMAD, Impact, or SuperKick.
took ownership of that 18, yesterday. It's a beasssstt. I gotta order claws, tension rods and heads now, endg...
Alright, so, I've got the T-rods, claws, hoop, new heads for it, bent the legs for it, and it sounds fucking AWESOME. 10/14 toms sound good.
I need a snare, pedals, and cymbals, then I'm done buying shit for the rest of the year... maybe.
The Axis Longboards I've been experimenting with eat fat dick. They're fun, and fast as fuck, but even with wood beaters, they don't give me the feeling of really digging into the head.
so, I'm gonna pick up a second set of Iron Cobras, or perhaps DW9000's if I can stomach the 474 dollar price tag, if I can't find them used.
Anyone got a snare they wanna send me? Or extra iron cobras? I'll compensate with dirty emails between RacerX and I...
Just swung a set of 14in New Beats for 60 bucks. Now all I need is crashes and a ride..
Axis pedals aren't made for power, that's for sure. My DW 9002 was a great pedal. Took me a bit of tweaking to get them to really pound, but once you get there, they're smooth and vicious.
Snare acquired! Joey Jordison fag snare with the S's all over it.
Lots of sanding to be done tomorrow... I have to sand off all that black paint, and then reshoot it, or polish the fuck out of it.
That's a 13x7, is it not?
13x6.5 I be thinkin'.
I've never played a 13" snare. They sound good, but I don't think I could get used to the feel.
At one time I had a pacific 5x13 maple that was a nice snare. It had a nice, fat rimshot for a smaller drum. I don't go for anything below a 14 these days.
I have a couple of 10x15 Slingerland marching snares out in the garage that are in rough shape, but still have hoops (thank fuck) and lugs. They're kind of far down the project list though.
The most recent restore I did was a mostly rust-coated steel 6.5x14 first gen Pearl free floater. A friend found it in an abandoned rental house they were clearing out. After aluminum foil, 0000 steel wool, and polishing it looks and sounds godly. It weighs a ton, too. That's another "flip" that I'll never get rid of.
Pearl Eliminator (P-2002C NOT demon drive) is a nice heavy pedal that can deliver the thump as well.
I'be been drooling over a few 15 and even 16 inch snares. My 14x14 sounds killer but it's a little too tall to position comfortably. I've been looking at Pearl's free floating 14x12 marching snares, but 15x10 would be fantastic. If you're looking to unload one of those in the next couple of months, shoot me a bmail (or whatever they're called now).
I just dug them out and measured them both. They're 12" deep :o
Anyone got a Maple 12 inch tom they wanna sell me?
Quote from: chlorpromazine on July 16, 2011, 11:28:32 PM
I just dug them out and measured them both. They're 12" deep :o
I am officially a jealous person now.
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff409/enslavedinrot/2011-07-21_12-01-56_317.jpg)
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff409/enslavedinrot/2011-07-21_12-02-07_491.jpg)
hey chlorp, what was the aluminum foil for?